What's your opinion on Basic Income?

[Dari]

For starters before the economy went in the toilet we had the better part of a $1 Trillion trade deficit. We have been consuming more than we make for over 40 years now. We have a pretty massive house of cards held up by a $17 Trillion deficit. If you believe that the debt is perfectly manageable and we can continue to perpetually sell debt in the US with no real ramifications, then there are no worries.

It's not "a house of cards." Debt is not a necessarily bad thing. We all have it. The very foundation of modern society, fiat money, is literally debt. Government debt is also not bad. Most of that money is owed to Americans and is basically used as an investment vehicle. Can it be lower? Of course. But to treat one number as if it represents countless ills is to be ill-informed.

 

[michal1980]

thought about it some more... how do we prevent baby factory moms on this program?

 

[ivwshane]

For starters before the economy went in the toilet we had the better part of a $1 Trillion trade deficit. We have been consuming more than we make for over 40 years now. We have a pretty massive house of cards held up by a $17 Trillion deficit. If you believe that the debt is perfectly manageable and we can continue to perpetually sell debt in the US with no real ramifications, then there are no worries.

So doing the same thing you are complaining about will somehow change the outcome? You know what word that describes?

 

[ivwshane]

thought about it some more... how do we prevent baby factory moms on this program?

Why would that matter? I'd imagine that a GBI is per person, more specifically, per adult. However, I'd add that health care should be socialized as well, things like freely (paid for via taxes really) available birth control and abortion services would help keep unwanted pregnancies down. There would be no incentive to have more kids like there is now.

 

[Dari]

thought about it some more... how do we prevent baby factory moms on this program?

I think punishment/prison would be in the cards for parents that cannot take care of their own. There's no excuse for having children and then depending on (or expecting) others to help you raise them. If you need help call on your (extended) family, not the government.

 

[Atreus21]

It's not "a house of cards." Debt is not a necessarily bad thing. We all have it. The very foundation of modern society, fiat money, is literally debt. Government debt is also not bad. Most of that money is owed to Americans and is basically used as an investment vehicle. Can it be lower? Of course. But to treat one number as if it represents countless ills is to be ill-informed.

Just because that money is owed to other American doesn't make it better or worse than any other debt. The government owes that money to its citizens, specifically those entitled to SS benefits.

 

[Dari]

Just because that money is owed to other American doesn't make it better or worse than any other debt. The government owes that money to its citizens, specifically those entitled to SS benefits.

Yeah, so? Most of that money is owed over a substantially long term and the loaner is getting interest on it. If it was up to me, I'd rather the government owe me money than a fickle corporation who could go out of business at any time. If a government is going out of business, money I lent them would be the least of my concerns.

 

[Matt1970]

It's not "a house of cards." Debt is not a necessarily bad thing. We all have it. The very foundation of modern society, fiat money, is literally debt. Government debt is also not bad. Most of that money is owed to Americans and is basically used as an investment vehicle. Can it be lower? Of course. But to treat one number as if it represents countless ills is to be ill-informed.

I disagree, but our debt is just a symptom of the bigger problem. We want all these neat and wonderful services from our government but are unwilling to pay for them in taxes, so we borrow. We also want all these neat and wonderful gadgets but are unwilling to pay extra for the American made version, so we have trade deficits. Just getting our trade deficits to a decent level would probably generate enough extra tax revenue to close our deficits.

 

[Matt1970]

So doing the same thing you are complaining about will somehow change the outcome? You know what word that describes?

What exactly has been done about our trade deficits lately? If anything we are making things worse with more and more "Free trade agreements". How is it "doing the same thing \" when we haven't done anything?

 

[Belegost]

I think punishment/prison would be in the cards for parents that cannot take care of their own. There's no excuse for having children and then depending on (or expecting) others to help you raise them. If you need help call on your (extended) family, not the government.

The other nice thing about it is that child support gets easier. If a parent doesn't want to be responsible and raise their child, their GBI payment is garnished and directly added to the GBI of the child's guardian. No excuses, no "check's in the mail" and since every adult has GBI funds to garnish, there is always money.

These irresponsible men who seem to enjoy getting women pregnant and running out will quickly find themselves without funds. Kind of hard to keep pumping out babies if guys won't knock you up because they know they'll lose their money.

 

[glenn1]

Money without accountability or consequence is a recipe for disaster. Progressives would never allow someone to truly fail even if they were completely irresponsible with their basic income money so it's just another way of handing out freebies with more to inexorably follow once the initial money was blown on hookers and blow.

And the idea that poverty is the source of crime is so laughably wrong that I don't even understand how it gets repeated constantly like some sort of talisman.

 

[norseamd]

State provided condominium housing and food and clothing would do far more wonders first than just handing out money that could get spent on anything.

 

[michal1980]

Why would that matter? I'd imagine that a GBI is per person, more specifically, per adult. However, I'd add that health care should be socialized as well, things like freely (paid for via taxes really) available birth control and abortion services would help keep unwanted pregnancies down. There would be no incentive to have more kids like there is now.

why woul GBI be per adult? right now welfare is given to baby mama's because we have to take care of their kids.

if everyone, including a person just born has a right to basic income, it would just mean that moms that want more money will have more kids.

 

[ivwshane]

why woul GBI be per adult? right now welfare is given to baby mama's because we have to take care of their kids.

if everyone, including a person just born has a right to basic income, it would just mean that moms that want more money will have more kids.

No, welfare is given out to adults and welfare based on the number of kids you have went away in 1996.

However this discussion isn't about how GBI will work, it's about whether you support it or not and if you don't support it because you think something you don't like will happen then fine. If you support it provided the thing you don't like doesn't happen then just say that.

 

[glenn1]

No, welfare is given out to adults and welfare based on the number of kids you have went away in 1996.

However this discussion isn't about how GBI will work, it's about whether you support it or not and if you don't support it because you think something you don't like will happen then fine. If you support it provided the thing you don't like doesn't happen then just say that.

I don't support it unless it served as a hard capbon the amount of social welfare any one person could receive. Since you and other progressives would never agree to that I have no interest in the concept since it's simply one more opportunity to increase social welfare spending.

 

[BoberFett]

However this discussion isn't about how GBI will work, it's about whether you support it or not

You're truly daft. How does one choose without knowing how it would work?

Do you support universal health care? Don't ask how it will work, just answer yes or no.







Oh by the way, my version of UHC only covers ingrown toenails.

 

[norseamd]

Do you support universal health care?

Well do you? In a form basically the same as other countries including European and Asian countries?

 

[ivwshane]

You're truly daft. How does one choose without knowing how it would work?

Do you support universal health care? Don't ask how it will work, just answer yes or no.







Oh by the way, my version of UHC only covers ingrown toenails.

Your posts are so tiring now.

Is there a particular form of GBI being offered up here? No? Then how the hell would we discuss how it works? We are discussing the general concept of it, is this generalization too hard for you to grasp? Do you need all the specifics of a non existent proposition before you can comment on it? Or are you capable of understanding the purpose of a GBI and are capable of raising your own concerns without requiring specific details?

And yes I support UHC and I can do so without having to know any details or seeing a specific proposal. How can I? Because I get the general idea of what UHC is and it's general goals, clearly you don't otherwise you wouldn't make such a stupid comment about it only covering one issue.


Perhaps you need to take a vacation from this forum, your last few posts have literally contributed nothing, even michael1980 has added more value to this thread than you have.

 

[ivwshane]

I don't support it unless it served as a hard capbon the amount of social welfare any one person could receive. Since you and other progressives would never agree to that I have no interest in the concept since it's simply one more opportunity to increase social welfare spending.

Interesting because it appears that most people who support it do so with the idea that all other welfare would be removed.

But I guess that evil non existent boogeyman, aka the progressives, strikes again to ruin everything.

 

[BoberFett]

Interesting because it appears that most people who support it do so with the idea that all other welfare would be removed.

But I guess that evil non existent boogeyman, aka the progressives, strikes again to ruin everything.

You would never let someone starve.

 

[ivwshane]

You would never let someone starve.

I'd let you starve

Oops!

Some questions I have which I couldn't find info on in the wiki; is how would this be paid? Meaning would citizens get a big check to spend on what they want or would it be a voucher type deal that can only be spent on certain things. I don't think a blank check would work but some system that only allows the money to be spent on say rent/mortgage, food, utilities, and health care, I think would be more doable.

I agree that a GBI should also eliminate current safety net systems like welfare, section 8, etc.

The other question would be; is the GBI based on geographical location or is it a national standard? $12000 in San Fran doesn't do as much as $12000 in Texas.

I'd say most people in the US would be against a setup like this though, we are a nation of people who don't like to take vacations and we work long hours and we do so because if we don't we are made to feel bad (see some of the previous replies).

 

[BoberFett]

LOL, liberals. What utter pieces of subhuman garbage.

 

[ivwshane]

LOL, liberals. What utter pieces of subhuman garbage.

Yep! And you enjoy the company

 

[compuwiz1]

thought about it some more... how do we prevent baby factory moms on this program?

I guess you've figured out that a vagina sometimes becomes an economy in this country. I have a disgusting member of my wife's side of the family, who immigrated, then immediately went on government assistance, while being regularly pregnant. She has contributed nothing into the system. She sure loves her earned income tax credit refund though. She goes to the casino when that check comes. Puke!!!!

 

[lopri]

I am curious what the poll result would look like had the question been "Would you support a basic standard of living in your country?" instead of what it is now.