What's your goal in posting in P&N?

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: daveshel
It started out as an interesting way to pass the time, then I discovered it was an excellent way to be exposed to a wide variety of sources of information on current events. As time went on, I started hoping that the clarity of my analyses would be illuminating to others and they would see what was oblious to me and abandon their ridiculous, unsupportable positions. Then I was dismayed at how they strived to support those positions by slinging sh!t, and some were banned for personal attacks and others just for frustrated or bored and went away. I don't come here as often as I once did, but keep checking in to see if it will come back as a place for good discussions.

This his easily explainable and is completely predictable if you assume that people hate themselves. When you see that people are attached to their ideas not because they are true, but because they offer an illusion of self worth, you see why logic and reason mean nothing, and why, also, you are attacked. Everything in our would of illusion is about not knowing what we feel.

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: daveshel
It started out as an interesting way to pass the time, then I discovered it was an excellent way to be exposed to a wide variety of sources of information on current events. As time went on, I started hoping that the clarity of my analyses would be illuminating to others and they would see what was oblious to me and abandon their ridiculous, unsupportable positions. Then I was dismayed at how they strived to support those positions by slinging sh!t, and some were banned for personal attacks and others just for frustrated or bored and went away. I don't come here as often as I once did, but keep checking in to see if it will come back as a place for good discussions.

This his easily explainable and is completely predictable if you assume that people hate themselves. When you see that people are attached to their ideas not because they are true, but because they offer an illusion of self worth, you see why logic and reason mean nothing, and why, also, you are attacked. Everything in our would of illusion is about not knowing what we feel.

Careful, 'beam, you state the bolded as an objective truth somehow existing outside of the web of fearful ego illusion that you would be the first to state we are all subject to.

My late wife's spiritual compass was the Course in Miracles. Perhaps the core point of the course is that your ego is an illusion, it's fear is an illusion, and the idea of your ego that you are somehow attacked by anyone or anything else anywhere or anytime your prime illusion created by your ego's false fear. Your false fear literally creates this world of bogeymen. My wife Jessie was more spiritually evolved than I, but even as I go forth into ego battle each and every day I know there is a core truth there.

 

[daveshel]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: daveshel
It started out as an interesting way to pass the time, then I discovered it was an excellent way to be exposed to a wide variety of sources of information on current events. As time went on, I started hoping that the clarity of my analyses would be illuminating to others and they would see what was oblious to me and abandon their ridiculous, unsupportable positions. Then I was dismayed at how they strived to support those positions by slinging sh!t, and some were banned for personal attacks and others just for frustrated or bored and went away. I don't come here as often as I once did, but keep checking in to see if it will come back as a place for good discussions.

This his easily explainable and is completely predictable if you assume that people hate themselves. When you see that people are attached to their ideas not because they are true, but because they offer an illusion of self worth, you see why logic and reason mean nothing, and why, also, you are attacked. Everything in our would of illusion is about not knowing what we feel.

Was it Ibsen's Nora that spoke of the 'life illusion?'

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: daveshel
It started out as an interesting way to pass the time, then I discovered it was an excellent way to be exposed to a wide variety of sources of information on current events. As time went on, I started hoping that the clarity of my analyses would be illuminating to others and they would see what was oblious to me and abandon their ridiculous, unsupportable positions. Then I was dismayed at how they strived to support those positions by slinging sh!t, and some were banned for personal attacks and others just for frustrated or bored and went away. I don't come here as often as I once did, but keep checking in to see if it will come back as a place for good discussions.

This his easily explainable and is completely predictable if you assume that people hate themselves. When you see that people are attached to their ideas not because they are true, but because they offer an illusion of self worth, you see why logic and reason mean nothing, and why, also, you are attacked. Everything in our would of illusion is about not knowing what we feel.

Careful, 'beam, you state the bolded as an objective truth somehow existing outside of the web of fearful ego illusion that you would be the first to state we are all subject to.

My late wife's spiritual compass was the Course in Miracles. Perhaps the core point of the course is that your ego is an illusion, it's fear is an illusion, and the idea of your ego that you are somehow attacked by anyone or anything else anywhere or anytime your prime illusion created by your ego's false fear. Your false fear literally creates this world of bogeymen. My wife Jessie was more spiritually evolved than I, but even as I go forth into ego battle each and every day I know there is a core truth there.

I think I understand what you are saying here but I am not sure. Let me make sure that I am clear about what I was saying, if that is possible.

Your wife's belief is, in my opinion, quite true. I think that in addition to believing what she said is true, I can see why. For me then, it is not just a belief but a scientific psychological theory. I see the ego as the self that we create to protect us from childhood trauma. We act perfectly as we were born, created in the image of God, and are destroyed by put down and threat to conform to the disease of our parent's mental prison, the insanity we call the civilized norm. We become our programming, our ego, because we must to survive. We are the Stockholm syndrome. Our ego was created by a brutality that we co-opt and conform to to escape the pain that brutality caused. The ego is our defense from remembering. It is the repression we create to keep the memory of our psychic death from surfacing.

So anybody who pokes about in other people's ego and the beliefs it contains, will be subject to the same attack as created the ego. That is a reality and nothing could be easier to test. What I think you may be saying is you don't need to respond to the attack. That is true if you are not identified with the ego, if you yourself have healed your self hate. You will be attacked, but the attack can be on air. Is this what you were getting at?

 

[Gaard]

What's your goal in posting in P&N?

Does there have to be a goal? Why is posting about politics here any different than discussing politics with a bunch of people in your bowling league?

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
So anybody who pokes about in other people's ego and the beliefs it contains, will be subject to the same attack as created the ego. That is a reality and nothing could be easier to test. What I think you may be saying is you don't need to respond to the attack. That is true if you are not identified with the ego, if you yourself have healed your self hate. You will be attacked, but the attack can be on air. Is this what you were getting at?

The Course in Miracles says that (bolded) is the ego's false reality, created by and experienced by the ego, and is a dream world that will fall away once we realize we have never been seperated from "God" and are always fully protected. All that you say is "reality and easy to test" is reality and easy to test only in this dream world, which is an illusion. You are not your body. That's what the Course in Miracles says. That's what Jessie fully believed.

 

[AreaCode707]

Originally posted by: Gaard

What's your goal in posting in P&N?

Does there have to be a goal? Why is posting about politics here any different than discussing politics with a bunch of people in your bowling league?

But even the bowling league discussion has a goal, whether it be to pass the time, forge stronger bonds, or learn the standings of your friends.

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: HotChic

Originally posted by: Gaard

What's your goal in posting in P&N?

Does there have to be a goal? Why is posting about politics here any different than discussing politics with a bunch of people in your bowling league?

But even the bowling league discussion has a goal, whether it be to pass the time, forge stronger bonds, or learn the standings of your friends.

We apes are gregarious animals. No man is an island (or a ballpeen hammer, but that's another story). The ultimate sanction in prison is the "hole" -- forced isolation from human contact.

I think it was Steven Jay Gould who wrote that if you looked at humankind on the earth through some mythical telescope and slowly pulled farther and farther back what you would most notice is we humans furiously and continually interacting with each other like bees in a hive.

Connection.

So be it that bowling league or P&N or an Utne Reader literary salon or a KKK klavern cookout or a church service, what we humans most regularly crave is the company of each other, in one form or another.

We want to make a connection, to "reach out and touch someone", and to be touched in return, to have the warm feeling of community, to "belong".

E.M. Forster said it: "Only connect."

This is so basic to our being, that we don't experience it as a "goal". But it underlies most everything we do.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
So anybody who pokes about in other people's ego and the beliefs it contains, will be subject to the same attack as created the ego. That is a reality and nothing could be easier to test. What I think you may be saying is you don't need to respond to the attack. That is true if you are not identified with the ego, if you yourself have healed your self hate. You will be attacked, but the attack can be on air. Is this what you were getting at?

The Course in Miracles says that (bolded) is the ego's false reality, created by and experienced by the ego, and is a dream world that will fall away once we realize we have never been seperated from "God" and are always fully protected. All that you say is "reality and easy to test" is reality and easy to test only in this dream world, which is an illusion. You are not your body. That's what the Course in Miracles says. That's what Jessie fully believed.

Yes. You do not have to be delusional, though, to be affected by other people's delusions. Part of loving life is preserving your own unless you have an aim for which you are willing to die, I think.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: daveshel
It started out as an interesting way to pass the time, then I discovered it was an excellent way to be exposed to a wide variety of sources of information on current events. As time went on, I started hoping that the clarity of my analyses would be illuminating to others and they would see what was oblious to me and abandon their ridiculous, unsupportable positions. Then I was dismayed at how they strived to support those positions by slinging sh!t, and some were banned for personal attacks and others just for frustrated or bored and went away. I don't come here as often as I once did, but keep checking in to see if it will come back as a place for good discussions.

That you assume that your position is obvious and true, while anyone who disagrees with you is ridiculous and unsupported is the main problem in this forum, and with humankind in general. People like you who assume that your way is the only way are responsible for most of the bloodshed in the world.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: BoberFett

What's your goal in posting in P&N?

To annoy and enrage.

I agree with that, but it is only an objective, not a goal.

An "Objective" and a "Goal" are the same thing.

goal (g½l) n. 1. The purpose toward which an endeavor is directed; an objective. 2. Sports. a. The finish line of a race. b. A specified structure or zone into or over which players endeavor to advance a ball or puck. c. The score awarded for such an act.

ob·jec·tive (?b-jµk?t¹v) adj. 1. Of or having to do with a material object. 2. Having actual existence or reality. 3.a. Uninfluenced by emotions or personal prejudices. b. Based on observable phenomena; presented factually. 4. Medicine. Indicating a symptom or condition perceived as a sign of disease by someone other than the person affected. 5. Abbr. obj. Grammar. a. Of, relating to, or being the case of a noun or pronoun that serves as the object of a verb. b. Of or relating to a noun or pronoun used in this case. --ob·jec·tive n. 1. Something that actually exists. 2. Something worked toward or striven for; a goal. 3. Abbr. obj. Grammar. a. The objective case. b. A noun or pronoun in the objective case. 4. The lens or lens system in a microscope or other optical instrument that first receives light rays from the object and forms the image. In this sense, also called object glass, objective lens, object lens. --ob·jec?tive·ly adv. --ob·jec?tive·ness n.

I SEE A goal as the macro being worked toward and the objective as the definitive steps toward the goal. Close, but when used together, different.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: HotChic

Originally posted by: Condor
Goal? Someone stupid enough to consider entertainment here a life goal? Remodeling the guest bathroom is a goal, retirement was a goal, getting the bagger on the mower and the leaves up is a goal, getting the rest of the shelves set up in the garage is a goal, getting the garage organized is a goal, helping my daughter until she is set up is a goal. This has nothing to do with goals! This is slightly less boring than TV.

I never said anything about a life goal. Many people who come here have a goal, unlike OT where the point is to waste time. I wanted to know the goals of those who have them.

There are a few that think posting here will affect our civilization and the way we live. For those, one bit of advice: Get a career where you can actually make a difference. Choose a philosophy and make it a life goal and do something real about what you believe. Posting here won't do it. A few of the more rageing libs here have started their own web sites. That is sort of a crippled up start, but they really have to dive off the high board to make a splash.

Posting in this particular place makes no difference, sharing and expressing Ideas does make a difference. Without the exchange of Ideas there can be no advancement. Many Ideas are exchanged here.

I suppose the question must be asked: If you feel this place is so useless and a waste, why do you spend so much time here?

Entertainment!!! I spent about two hours here a day. I check in early when I check my emails and late - likewise. Do you play video games? Do you play those because they are useful or do you play them because they are entertainment?

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: HotChic

Originally posted by: Gaard

What's your goal in posting in P&N?

Does there have to be a goal? Why is posting about politics here any different than discussing politics with a bunch of people in your bowling league?

But even the bowling league discussion has a goal, whether it be to pass the time, forge stronger bonds, or learn the standings of your friends.

We apes are gregarious animals. No man is an island (or a ballpeen hammer, but that's another story). The ultimate sanction in prison is the "hole" -- forced isolation from human contact.

I think it was Steven Jay Gould who wrote that if you looked at humankind on the earth through some mythical telescope and slowly pulled farther and farther back what you would most notice is we humans furiously and continually interacting with each other like bees in a hive.

Connection.

So be it that bowling league or P&N or an Utne Reader literary salon or a KKK klavern cookout or a church service, what we humans most regularly crave is the company of each other, in one form or another.

We want to make a connection, to "reach out and touch someone", and to be touched in return, to have the warm feeling of community, to "belong".

E.M. Forster said it: "Only connect."

This is so basic to our being, that we don't experience it as a "goal". But it underlies most everything we do.

As you move from the Alto Plano and near the city of La Paz, it starts on El Alto and moves as a city into the prehistoric river valley. The houses and buildings as seen from great distance do look like an infestation.

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Yes. You do not have to be delusional, though, to be affected by other people's delusions.

Actually, the Course in Miracles says you do. It is precisely their point.

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Part of [your ego] loving [it's] life is preserving your own [ego] unless you have an [ego] aim for which you are willing to [remain in the false "dream" of seperation from God and experience yourself as a martyr who will now] die, I think.

Remember, the Course in Miracles says you are not your body. YOU, the real, eternal you, cannot die. Your "death", like all attacks, like all FEAR, can only be experienced in our asleep state, in the dream illusion that we are seperate from God, and thus seperate from each other, that is our daily life as we experience it here.

So, the Course in Miracles says that you need only awaken to who you have always been all along, what you are right now, an eternal and indivisible part of God as is everyone else, and you will awaken to the absurdity that God could or would attack God.

Remember, you are not your body!!!!!


. . . Now, hey, 'beam, I'm not saying I get up each day and live this. I'm pretty much a walking, talking example of the angry, fearful ego. I'm quick to punch the sandbag clown, which only and ever just pops right back up again. I'm the dog you could always throw the same stupid stick and I'd chase it.

But I knew even before I met Jessie that there was something for me in this Course in Miracles thing, even as I want to righteously stomp someone I've dubbed a troll, or strangle someone who cuts me off in traffic, or shoot the fox who killed (and ate) my rooster Rainbow.

And it was the kelson, the cornerstone, the shining pole star of my Jessie's life.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: BoberFett

What's your goal in posting in P&N?

To annoy and enrage.

I agree with that, but it is only an objective, not a goal.

An "Objective" and a "Goal" are the same thing.

goal (g½l) n. 1. The purpose toward which an endeavor is directed; an objective. 2. Sports. a. The finish line of a race. b. A specified structure or zone into or over which players endeavor to advance a ball or puck. c. The score awarded for such an act.

ob·jec·tive (?b-jµk?t¹v) adj. 1. Of or having to do with a material object. 2. Having actual existence or reality. 3.a. Uninfluenced by emotions or personal prejudices. b. Based on observable phenomena; presented factually. 4. Medicine. Indicating a symptom or condition perceived as a sign of disease by someone other than the person affected. 5. Abbr. obj. Grammar. a. Of, relating to, or being the case of a noun or pronoun that serves as the object of a verb. b. Of or relating to a noun or pronoun used in this case. --ob·jec·tive n. 1. Something that actually exists. 2. Something worked toward or striven for; a goal. 3. Abbr. obj. Grammar. a. The objective case. b. A noun or pronoun in the objective case. 4. The lens or lens system in a microscope or other optical instrument that first receives light rays from the object and forms the image. In this sense, also called object glass, objective lens, object lens. --ob·jec?tive·ly adv. --ob·jec?tive·ness n.

I SEE A goal as the macro being worked toward and the objective as the definitive steps toward the goal. Close, but when used together, different.

The same thing.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: BoberFett

What's your goal in posting in P&N?

To annoy and enrage.

I agree with that, but it is only an objective, not a goal.

An "Objective" and a "Goal" are the same thing.

goal (g½l) n. 1. The purpose toward which an endeavor is directed; an objective. 2. Sports. a. The finish line of a race. b. A specified structure or zone into or over which players endeavor to advance a ball or puck. c. The score awarded for such an act.

ob·jec·tive (?b-jµk?t¹v) adj. 1. Of or having to do with a material object. 2. Having actual existence or reality. 3.a. Uninfluenced by emotions or personal prejudices. b. Based on observable phenomena; presented factually. 4. Medicine. Indicating a symptom or condition perceived as a sign of disease by someone other than the person affected. 5. Abbr. obj. Grammar. a. Of, relating to, or being the case of a noun or pronoun that serves as the object of a verb. b. Of or relating to a noun or pronoun used in this case. --ob·jec·tive n. 1. Something that actually exists. 2. Something worked toward or striven for; a goal. 3. Abbr. obj. Grammar. a. The objective case. b. A noun or pronoun in the objective case. 4. The lens or lens system in a microscope or other optical instrument that first receives light rays from the object and forms the image. In this sense, also called object glass, objective lens, object lens. --ob·jec?tive·ly adv. --ob·jec?tive·ness n.

I SEE A goal as the macro being worked toward and the objective as the definitive steps toward the goal. Close, but when used together, different.

The same thing.

Scale difference!!!!

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: Condor
As you move from the Alto Plano and near the city of La Paz, it starts on El Alto and moves as a city into the prehistoric river valley. The houses and buildings as seen from great distance do look like an infestation.

That's one of the wisest and most lyrical things I've ever heard you say, and you weren't even trying. :beer:

 

[AreaCode707]

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: BoberFett

What's your goal in posting in P&N?

To annoy and enrage.

I agree with that, but it is only an objective, not a goal.

An "Objective" and a "Goal" are the same thing.

goal (g½l) n. 1. The purpose toward which an endeavor is directed; an objective. 2. Sports. a. The finish line of a race. b. A specified structure or zone into or over which players endeavor to advance a ball or puck. c. The score awarded for such an act.

ob·jec·tive (?b-jµk?t¹v) adj. 1. Of or having to do with a material object. 2. Having actual existence or reality. 3.a. Uninfluenced by emotions or personal prejudices. b. Based on observable phenomena; presented factually. 4. Medicine. Indicating a symptom or condition perceived as a sign of disease by someone other than the person affected. 5. Abbr. obj. Grammar. a. Of, relating to, or being the case of a noun or pronoun that serves as the object of a verb. b. Of or relating to a noun or pronoun used in this case. --ob·jec·tive n. 1. Something that actually exists. 2. Something worked toward or striven for; a goal. 3. Abbr. obj. Grammar. a. The objective case. b. A noun or pronoun in the objective case. 4. The lens or lens system in a microscope or other optical instrument that first receives light rays from the object and forms the image. In this sense, also called object glass, objective lens, object lens. --ob·jec?tive·ly adv. --ob·jec?tive·ness n.

I SEE A goal as the macro being worked toward and the objective as the definitive steps toward the goal. Close, but when used together, different.

The same thing.

Scale difference!!!!

Semantics, boys! What the definitions are and how people understand it are two different things. I would figure that most people could take the original post like I meant it and not get into the nitty-gritty to figure out their answer.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: Condor
As you move from the Alto Plano and near the city of La Paz, it starts on El Alto and moves as a city into the prehistoric river valley. The houses and buildings as seen from great distance do look like an infestation.

That's one of the wisest and most lyrical things I've ever heard you say, and you weren't even trying. :beer:

Thanks for that! That day was the first time I had ever thought of humanity in the same terms as insects. Without ruining the moment and on being here in ATPN, need I say that I wouldn't wear a tux to a strip joint? You have to admire Moonie for constantly trying to keep the level up, don't you?

 

[Perknose]

My goal was to attain my objective.

My objective was to attain my goal.

They seem fairly interchangable to me. :shrug;

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: Condor
Thanks for that! That day was the first time I had ever thought of humanity in the same terms as insects. Without ruining the moment and on being here in ATPN, need I say that I wouldn't wear a tux to a strip joint? You have to admire Moonie for constantly trying to keep the level up, don't you?

Damn straight! I know I want to be Moonie when I grow up!

 

[AreaCode707]

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: Condor
Thanks for that! That day was the first time I had ever thought of humanity in the same terms as insects. Without ruining the moment and on being here in ATPN, need I say that I wouldn't wear a tux to a strip joint? You have to admire Moonie for constantly trying to keep the level up, don't you?

Damn straight! I know I want to be Moonie when I grow up!

You'll need to grow down for that.

heart: Moonie)

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: Perknose
My goal was to attain my objective.

My objective was to attain my goal.

They seem fairly interchangable to me. :shrug;

I think goals are something you set to achieve and objectives are levels set for you and measure performance. Objectives are finite while goals can be vague and provide guidence.

Much of my academic was in Management and these references are what I think of as I vision the two terms:

Management by objectives (MBO) is a systematic and organized approach that allows management to focus on achievable goals and to attain the best possible results from available resources. It aims to increase organizational performance by aligning goals and subordinate objectives throughout the organization. Ideally, employees get strong input to identify their objectives, time lines for completion, etc. MBO includes ongoing tracking and feedback in the process to reach objectives.

MBO was first outlined by Peter Drucker in 1954 in his book 'The Practice of Management'. In the 90s, Peter Drucker himself decreased the significance of this organization management method, when he said: "It's just another tool. It is not the great cure for management inefficiency... Management by Objectives works if you know the objectives, 90% of the time you don't


An objective is a specific step, a milestone, which enables you to accomplish a goal. Setting objectives involves a continuous process of research and decision-making. Knowledge of yourself and your unit is a vital starting point in setting objectives.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: HotChic

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: BoberFett

What's your goal in posting in P&N?

To annoy and enrage.

I agree with that, but it is only an objective, not a goal.

An "Objective" and a "Goal" are the same thing.

goal (g½l) n. 1. The purpose toward which an endeavor is directed; an objective. 2. Sports. a. The finish line of a race. b. A specified structure or zone into or over which players endeavor to advance a ball or puck. c. The score awarded for such an act.

ob·jec·tive (?b-jµk?t¹v) adj. 1. Of or having to do with a material object. 2. Having actual existence or reality. 3.a. Uninfluenced by emotions or personal prejudices. b. Based on observable phenomena; presented factually. 4. Medicine. Indicating a symptom or condition perceived as a sign of disease by someone other than the person affected. 5. Abbr. obj. Grammar. a. Of, relating to, or being the case of a noun or pronoun that serves as the object of a verb. b. Of or relating to a noun or pronoun used in this case. --ob·jec·tive n. 1. Something that actually exists. 2. Something worked toward or striven for; a goal. 3. Abbr. obj. Grammar. a. The objective case. b. A noun or pronoun in the objective case. 4. The lens or lens system in a microscope or other optical instrument that first receives light rays from the object and forms the image. In this sense, also called object glass, objective lens, object lens. --ob·jec?tive·ly adv. --ob·jec?tive·ness n.

I SEE A goal as the macro being worked toward and the objective as the definitive steps toward the goal. Close, but when used together, different.

The same thing.

Scale difference!!!!

Semantics, boys! What the definitions are and how people understand it are two different things. I would figure that most people could take the original post like I meant it and not get into the nitty-gritty to figure out their answer.

This is about debate! Never forget debate when going fishing.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: Condor
Thanks for that! That day was the first time I had ever thought of humanity in the same terms as insects. Without ruining the moment and on being here in ATPN, need I say that I wouldn't wear a tux to a strip joint? You have to admire Moonie for constantly trying to keep the level up, don't you?

Damn straight! I know I want to be Moonie when I grow up!

I just want to understand him - naw!