What's With The Hate And Assumptions About People Who Like Halo?

[PricklyPete]

Originally posted by: Skacer

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
I would argue that it takes more skill to master the controller than the KBM. Therefore, the highly skilled/pro Halo players are more skilled gamers than KBM players. It is obvious that anyone who can master precision using a controller could obviously do the same with a KBM.

/devil's advocate

Decent Devil's Advocate argument but flawed. While you can master a controller, there is a limit where there is a number of things you simply cannot do. you may see pro Halo players, but you would never see pro Quake 1 players on Xbox 360. Simply because the controller cannot do what the game required. Halo was built around the slower controls, so a pro is just someone making the best of the way the game was designed. In the end, the saddest revelation of FPS games that use controllers is that they've lost some part of their functionality in the transition. They are willfully giving up aspects of the game play for convenience and comfort.

The only thing you're stating here is that a controller has a harder time controlling a fast paced game. I certainly agree with you that it is much harder...but it doesn't mean it can't be done. Developers make design decisions to make the game more accessible to the masses. They also generally give sensitivity settings to appeal to players with more skill. You have more skill with the controller...well bump up the sensitivity and suddenly your "mouse-look" happens at lightning speed.

What other things can that controller not do exactly?

 

[purbeast0]

Originally posted by:
SkacerBut I'd love to see the scenario spun around. I think it would be funny if the PC had a Final Fantasy rip off that did everything worse but had millions of players and tons of hype. Then all of the console gamers could be called elitist when they realize they have 5-50 better jrpgs for any given day of the week.

Console gamers wouldn't give a crap if a FF ripoff came to the PC.

Know why?

One huge difference between console gamers and PC gamers is that console gamers don't give 2 craps about what is on a PC, while PC gamers really care about what's on consoles (for some odd reason). Just look in this thread for an example.

It's also clear that most console gamers don't give a crap about PC games because as most of you have said in this thread, "there are better FPS on the PC" yet they don't care to go play them.

I know theer are probably FPS on the PC I could have just as much fun with, if not more, than I do with Halo 3. I played CS competitively for years in college.

However I prefer to play games by turning on my 50", popping the game in and lounging on the couch, and playing w/in a few minutes with my friends.

EDIT:

a recent example of PC gamers caring much about a good console game.

 

[purbeast0]

Originally posted by: BD2003
At least epic is getting it right with UT3.

I don't think anyone knows for sure how the kb/m is going to work with UT3. For all we know, it could simply be like the smart frag is for the Xbox and basically "emulate" the analog controller movements with the mouse.

Does anyone have more information on how they are doing the kb/m support?

 

[Beev]

Originally posted by: purbeast0
playing w/in a few minutes with my friends.

So you just have ADD? 😛

Anyway, console gamers don't need to care what's on the PC, because chances are it'll get ported to consoles. I honestly can't even think of any recent great PC games that haven't gone to consoles later. Except RTS's, but I don't believe those count.

 

[Skacer]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
Seriously, WTF? Some of you act like we here in the console forum haven't played the games you have, or built our own systems for many years, and earned a living in the I.T. sector. Given that we have, perhaps one should stop to consider why we have still chosen to play console games, annd actually embrace titles like Halo 3. 😉

There are a large number of console gamers who have actively admitted they can't get games running properly on their pc, are tired of trying, it costs too much, or it is too bugged. These types of complaints make someone like me, who hasn't had problems playing a PC game (outside of betas) in ages, question the validity of their statements. I've never found PC Gaming difficult by any stretch of the imagination. Nor would I give up on the games I love simply because my machine sucks.

Technically, the kind of opinion I want to hear from someone who likes Halo, is that they used to play in the CPL or Quakecon, but now they play Halo because they enjoy the competition over there more. It would speak worlds if people like Team SK went to Halo instead of current PC games, and their reasoning for doing so (Was it just the money? do they actually enjoy it more?).

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: purbeast0

Originally posted by: BD2003
At least epic is getting it right with UT3.

I don't think anyone knows for sure how the kb/m is going to work with UT3. For all we know, it could simply be like the smart frag is for the Xbox and basically "emulate" the analog controller movements with the mouse.

Does anyone have more information on how they are doing the kb/m support?

There is absolutely zero reason to believe its not identical to the code being used for the PC game. Its all written in C nowadays.

 

[Skacer]

Originally posted by: purbeast0
Know why?

One huge difference between console gamers and PC gamers is that console gamers don't give 2 craps about what is on a PC, while PC gamers really care about what's on consoles (for some odd reason). Just look in this thread for an example.

It's also clear that most console gamers don't give a crap about PC games because as most of you have said in this thread, "there are better FPS on the PC" yet they don't care to go play them.

That's not fair, PC gamers were called out, on their own forum. First they were asked if they would play Halo if it was on PC and then they were insulted when they said no. Also I'm not sure what you mean by don't care to go play them. I can't play TF2 from work, although if I could I would. Last night I had to wait 2 freaking hours to get into servers because they are so busy.

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: purbeast0
One huge difference between console gamers and PC gamers is that console gamers don't give 2 craps about what is on a PC, while PC gamers really care about what's on consoles (for some odd reason). Just look in this thread for an example.

I think the only reason a PC gamer would care is that it seems people don't care about PC gaming anymore, even though some genres were "made" on the PC, it's being treated as the bastard stepchild. You don't hear developers saying, "Bah, we're pulling out of consoles and going PC exclusive!" The opposite would be much more viable. Kind of a bummer, no? 🙁

 

[Thraxen]

Originally posted by: BD2003
But to say its more realistic is just plain absurd. How in the world is moving two little sticks to simulate moving your head, eyes and arms more realistic than a controller that is freely movable, like I dunno, your eyes, head, or *gasp*...arm?

By more "realistic" I wasn't speaking of mechanics. Neither is close mechanically to aiming an actual gun. If you want that you would have to go for the Wii, not the 360 or PC. What I meant was that holding the stick steady and getting that last bit of aim zeroed in was similar to actual aiming in terms of the end result. The mouse is easily the least realistic. Easily. With a mouse you can move impossibly fast and suddenly stop on a pixel. Your character may as well be made of bricks and your arm be a metal pole embedded in them. That's just not how it really works. That's not to say I don't like using a mouse, I really do. In the past I've played most of my multiplayer FPS games on the PC since I tend to prefer highly unrealistic games like the UT series. Using a mouse to aim fits in perfectly with double jumps and the like as well as the overall frantic pace of the game.

Originally posted by: Skacer
That's not fair, PC gamers were called out, on their own forum. First they were asked if they would play Halo if it was on PC and then they were insulted when they said no. Also I'm not sure what you mean by don't care to go play them. I can't play TF2 from work, although if I could I would. Last night I had to wait 2 freaking hours to get into servers because they are so busy.

That may true this time, but I promise you that 99% of the time it's the PC-elitists that stir this crap up. If there's any fighting going on started by console gamers it usually involves fighting each other over which console is better.

 

[lupi]

Want to talk about a bunch of elitist, along with a couple other words ya could slip in.
 
 
The primary reason PC people care about the console market is because there is an ever increasing number of titles where the developer attempts to reduce their production cost by shafting the PC version when porting it between systems. Since most people aren't trying to game on a stripped down $99 internet ready PC, why should there be resolution, save point, control, sound, or console processing power limitations on the PC version?
 
For those making statements about multi-thousand dollar PC gaming rigs, you seriously need to reevaluate what's in that console of yours. Excluding a non-existing stripped down OS system for the PC, you can easily build a PC that is at least as capable as any console out there for a cost of no more than what the console would cost.
 
While it's not quite so easy for most to play their PC while sitting on the coach, whether playing my PC or console it's done in my reclining chair that has wheels on it; it's amazing easy to pull the chair from the desk to a position closer to the TV.
 
The input controls for the PC has an elegance of movement that is not found on the console. In TA2 I can be at max zoom and with a couple motions be looking at the entire map and then zoomed into an area on the opposite side. With a FPS I can be bunkered down boresighted at a spot and still be able to have near instant reaction to an oncoming enemy from any other direction and angle.
 
I don't think there is a title that is console only that does not have a PC title of the same genre that is at least as good. A PC user can connect with thousands of other players without paying a monthly online connection fee or the privilege of listening to the lil'johnies.
 
None of that doesn't mean the console isn't good for gaming or excel in some ways, but to simply state a stripped down limited function PC is the defacto gaming medium over a full function PC is a bit over the top.

 

[hooflung]

Last great FPS game on consoles imo was Goldeneye and its spiritual successor Perfect Dark. Unreal Tournament for the Dreamcast was a good romp but it was no substitute for the real thing. Thats just it... console FPS imo don't have that realism feel and its all because of the controller. Hopefully someone makes a good game that uses the Wii in such a way that they will be fun to me.

As for Halo... I wouldn't take too much pride in it. Red vs Blue is by far the best thing to come from it. Hold's no candle compared to Goldeneye 007.

 

[Beev]

lupi, I have a feeling your insight will go unnoticed just like mine 2 pages ago 🙁

 

[Thraxen]

Originally posted by: hooflung
Thats just it... console FPS imo don't have that realism feel and its all because of the controller. Hopefully someone makes a good game that uses the Wii in such a way that they will be fun to me.

Because only being able to run or walk with nothing in between and being able to aim impossibly fast is more realistic? It's cool if you prefer KB/M, but don't base it on realism.

 

[hooflung]

Originally posted by: lupi

For those making statements about multi-thousand dollar PC gaming rigs, you seriously need to reevaluate what's in that console of yours. Excluding a non-existing stripped down OS system for the PC, you can easily build a PC that is at least as capable as any console out there for a cost of no more than what the console would cost.

The thing I find quite amazing is that a lot of console gamers talk about how much bang for their buck. 4 year lifespan of systems. Their games just play. Etc Etc.

However, lets not forget the HDTV's they have to buy to play at the best resolution. The 50 dollars for each game that lasts maybe 15 hours. The controllers they have to buy to replace worn out controllers. The AV jacks for their systems because the ones they get with the unit aren't compatible with what their new HDTV takes.

Lets not forget how Sony PS2's break like every 2 years unless you are lucky. Let us not forget how many games are scratched by the lasers of the unit. Let us not forget the fiasco's with Xbox 360s that still happen to this day.

All the complaints a console gamer can put for a PC gamer they can take to bank in a different area. Their are many people who have no problems with gaming on a PC just like there are those who have no problems gaming on a console. Risk and expense is there for both.

Console gamers are just as elitist as PC gamers, sometimes even more so. They need to call a truce and just play their games.

 

[purbeast0]

Originally posted by: hooflung

Originally posted by: lupi

For those making statements about multi-thousand dollar PC gaming rigs, you seriously need to reevaluate what's in that console of yours. Excluding a non-existing stripped down OS system for the PC, you can easily build a PC that is at least as capable as any console out there for a cost of no more than what the console would cost.

The thing I find quite amazing is that a lot of console gamers talk about how much bang for their buck. 4 year lifespan of systems. Their games just play. Etc Etc.

However, lets not forget the HDTV's they have to buy to play at the best resolution. The 50 dollars for each game that lasts maybe 15 hours. The controllers they have to buy to replace worn out controllers. The AV jacks for their systems because the ones they get with the unit aren't compatible with what their new HDTV takes.

Lets not forget how Sony PS2's break like every 2 years unless you are lucky. Let us not forget how many games are scratched by the lasers of the unit. Let us not forget the fiasco's with Xbox 360s that still happen to this day.

All the complaints a console gamer can put for a PC gamer they can take to bank in a different area. Their are many people who have no problems with gaming on a PC just like there are those who have no problems gaming on a console. Risk and expense is there for both.

Console gamers are just as elitist as PC gamers, sometimes even more so. They need to call a truce and just play their games.

Yea I don't use my HDTV for watching HD movies, HD TV shows, or any other shows on television ... it's strictly for my video gaming :roll:

also games are on PC as well and cost $$.

i've owned every console since SNES and I've never had to buy a new controller or console because it broke (but my 360 did break, fixed for free though).

And why does everyone care so much what everyone else does with their money? 😕

 

[hooflung]

Originally posted by: Thraxen

Originally posted by: hooflung
Thats just it... console FPS imo don't have that realism feel and its all because of the controller. Hopefully someone makes a good game that uses the Wii in such a way that they will be fun to me.

Because only being able to run or walk with nothing in between and being able to aim impossibly fast is more realistic? It's cool if you prefer KB/M, but don't base it on realism.

precision my man... precision is what makes kb/m feel more real. Just like I can chug a case of dew before airsoft and use military training to impact my game, I can dial up my MX518 to the dpi I need for that round of Fragging. Hardware diversity is like body type diversity. If someone isn't willing to invest out of PT time to practice moving through PT with full gear on to get extra edge on the field... its like someone buying a microsoft mouse and keyboard.

I on the other hand have invested in a G15 and a MX518. Together I can control the situation as much as the developer will allow me to. Where as the consoles... well... lets just say no matter how awesome someone can play that controller like they were Santana on the guitar... its still a controller that has to adhere to console maker standards.

 

[hooflung]

Originally posted by: purbeast0

Originally posted by: hooflung

Originally posted by: lupi

For those making statements about multi-thousand dollar PC gaming rigs, you seriously need to reevaluate what's in that console of yours. Excluding a non-existing stripped down OS system for the PC, you can easily build a PC that is at least as capable as any console out there for a cost of no more than what the console would cost.

The thing I find quite amazing is that a lot of console gamers talk about how much bang for their buck. 4 year lifespan of systems. Their games just play. Etc Etc.

However, lets not forget the HDTV's they have to buy to play at the best resolution. The 50 dollars for each game that lasts maybe 15 hours. The controllers they have to buy to replace worn out controllers. The AV jacks for their systems because the ones they get with the unit aren't compatible with what their new HDTV takes.

Lets not forget how Sony PS2's break like every 2 years unless you are lucky. Let us not forget how many games are scratched by the lasers of the unit. Let us not forget the fiasco's with Xbox 360s that still happen to this day.

All the complaints a console gamer can put for a PC gamer they can take to bank in a different area. Their are many people who have no problems with gaming on a PC just like there are those who have no problems gaming on a console. Risk and expense is there for both.

Console gamers are just as elitist as PC gamers, sometimes even more so. They need to call a truce and just play their games.

Yea I don't use my HDTV for watching HD movies, HD TV shows, or any other shows on television ... it's strictly for my video gaming :roll:

also games are on PC as well and cost $$.

i've owned every console since SNES and I've never had to buy a new controller or console because it broke (but my 360 did break, fixed for free though).

And why does everyone care so much what everyone else does with their money? 😕

I don't know... the "I pay 400 dollars for a 4 year console" crowd is where that shot was aimed. But hey, I play HD movies on my WideScreen PC monitor in my nice leather chair. My PC isn't strictly for gaming. It serves as my gaming rig, my programming platform for work and hobby, my entertainment machine and a whole range of things that the consoles will never do. And it cost less than a xbox 360 with an extra controller and a few games. Lets not forget... about free PC games.

I have had to buy new controllers, especially for the PS 1 and 2. I still have my SNES and original controllers and my dreamcast never needed replacements. Nintendo 64, PS2, Xbox... well lets just say me and my friends wore them out like mad. My buddy with the wii which we play tons... invested in another 3 controllers at 50 bucks a pop. His brother in law has gone through 2 PS2's in the past 2 years. All he does is play deer hunter, GTA:SA and God of War:roll:

I am just saying... the money issue between gaming on the PC and gaming on the console doesn't fly. A decent Gaming rigs cost 500 bucks these days and can output to monitors AND TV's just like consoles can.

 

[MikeyLSU]

the same way you and I use our HDTV for movies/TV and other uses other than console gaming, I get the same use out of my computer for video encoding, surfing the web, picture editing... other than just PC gaming. And it only cost me about $500 to build a pretty good system that plays every current game at all high settings. I also have a PS3 that I enjoy.

 

[purbeast0]

Originally posted by: hooflung

Originally posted by: purbeast0

Originally posted by: hooflung

Originally posted by: lupi

For those making statements about multi-thousand dollar PC gaming rigs, you seriously need to reevaluate what's in that console of yours. Excluding a non-existing stripped down OS system for the PC, you can easily build a PC that is at least as capable as any console out there for a cost of no more than what the console would cost.

The thing I find quite amazing is that a lot of console gamers talk about how much bang for their buck. 4 year lifespan of systems. Their games just play. Etc Etc.

However, lets not forget the HDTV's they have to buy to play at the best resolution. The 50 dollars for each game that lasts maybe 15 hours. The controllers they have to buy to replace worn out controllers. The AV jacks for their systems because the ones they get with the unit aren't compatible with what their new HDTV takes.

Lets not forget how Sony PS2's break like every 2 years unless you are lucky. Let us not forget how many games are scratched by the lasers of the unit. Let us not forget the fiasco's with Xbox 360s that still happen to this day.

All the complaints a console gamer can put for a PC gamer they can take to bank in a different area. Their are many people who have no problems with gaming on a PC just like there are those who have no problems gaming on a console. Risk and expense is there for both.

Console gamers are just as elitist as PC gamers, sometimes even more so. They need to call a truce and just play their games.

Yea I don't use my HDTV for watching HD movies, HD TV shows, or any other shows on television ... it's strictly for my video gaming :roll:

also games are on PC as well and cost $$.

i've owned every console since SNES and I've never had to buy a new controller or console because it broke (but my 360 did break, fixed for free though).

And why does everyone care so much what everyone else does with their money? 😕

I don't know... the "I pay 400 dollars for a 4 year console" crowd is where that shot was aimed. But hey, I play HD movies on my WideScreen PC monitor in my nice leather chair. My PC isn't strictly for gaming. It serves as my gaming rig, my programming platform for work and hobby, my entertainment machine and a whole range of things that the consoles will never do. And it cost less than a xbox 360 with an extra controller and a few games. Lets not forget... about free PC games.

I have had to buy new controllers, especially for the PS 1 and 2. I still have my SNES and original controllers and my dreamcast never needed replacements. Nintendo 64, PS2, Xbox... well lets just say me and my friends wore them out like mad. My buddy with the wii which we play tons... invested in another 3 controllers at 50 bucks a pop. His brother in law has gone through 2 PS2's in the past 2 years. All he does is play deer hunter, GTA:SA and God of War:roll:

I am just saying... the money issue between gaming on the PC and gaming on the console doesn't fly. A decent Gaming rigs cost 500 bucks these days and can output to monitors AND TV's just like consoles can.

So where is this that you get all these free PC games?

 

[lupi]

Originally posted by: purbeast0

Yea I don't use my HDTV for watching HD movies, HD TV shows, or any other shows on television ... it's strictly for my video gaming :roll:

And yet let me see someone pick up a console, go into an empty room and play that console without also buying a tv.

And why does everyone care so much what everyone else does with their money? 😕

Probably because every other idiot attempting to go into a bash the pc'ers thread at some point goes into the and pcs cost... without having a real clue of actual pc and console cost.

 

[purbeast0]

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: purbeast0

Yea I don't use my HDTV for watching HD movies, HD TV shows, or any other shows on television ... it's strictly for my video gaming :roll:

And yet let me see someone pick up a console, go into an empty room and play that console without also buying a tv.

yea but you don't need to buy an HDTV. you can go buy a $50 tv from walmart and play the games.

 

[lupi]

Originally posted by: purbeast0

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: purbeast0

Yea I don't use my HDTV for watching HD movies, HD TV shows, or any other shows on television ... it's strictly for my video gaming :roll:

And yet let me see someone pick up a console, go into an empty room and play that console without also buying a tv.

yea but you don't need to buy an HDTV. you can go buy a $50 tv from walmart and play the games.

Don't disagree; but that doesn't seem to affect those making dippy arguements about pcs by saying my console looks great on my 60 inch bravia followed up by pcs cost too much.

 

[purbeast0]

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: purbeast0

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: purbeast0

Yea I don't use my HDTV for watching HD movies, HD TV shows, or any other shows on television ... it's strictly for my video gaming :roll:

And yet let me see someone pick up a console, go into an empty room and play that console without also buying a tv.

yea but you don't need to buy an HDTV. you can go buy a $50 tv from walmart and play the games.

Don't disagree; but that doesn't seem to affect those making dippy arguements about pcs by saying my console looks great on my 60 inch bravia followed up by pcs cost too much.

Touche.

 

[yowolabi]

Originally posted by: hooflung

Originally posted by: lupi

For those making statements about multi-thousand dollar PC gaming rigs, you seriously need to reevaluate what's in that console of yours. Excluding a non-existing stripped down OS system for the PC, you can easily build a PC that is at least as capable as any console out there for a cost of no more than what the console would cost.

The thing I find quite amazing is that a lot of console gamers talk about how much bang for their buck. 4 year lifespan of systems. Their games just play. Etc Etc.

However, lets not forget the HDTV's they have to buy to play at the best resolution. The 50 dollars for each game that lasts maybe 15 hours. The controllers they have to buy to replace worn out controllers. The AV jacks for their systems because the ones they get with the unit aren't compatible with what their new HDTV takes.


If my tv was only a monitor for my console, I would not have purchased it. I spend far more hours watching tv, sports, and movies, than I do playing games on it. The games for computers cost just as much. Also I usually buy used games for half the price, and it's as easy as buying a new game. I have yet to replace a worn out controller. My component cables came with my 360.


Lets not forget how Sony PS2's break like every 2 years unless you are lucky. Let us not forget how many games are scratched by the lasers of the unit. Let us not forget the fiasco's with Xbox 360s that still happen to this day.

I had to replace my 360. Total price...... 0$

All the complaints a console gamer can put for a PC gamer they can take to bank in a different area. Their are many people who have no problems with gaming on a PC just like there are those who have no problems gaming on a console. Risk and expense is there for both.

Console gamers are just as elitist as PC gamers, sometimes even more so. They need to call a truce and just play their games.

You threw out a whole bunch of stuff, trying to get something to stick, but nothing did. You didn't name one additional expense that I've actually had to pay. Console gaming is undeniably cheaper. Find somebody that says they bought their hdtv primarily for playing games, and you have an argument. I'm pretty sure those aren't the same people that are complaining of cost, though.

 

[NaOH]

Originally posted by: hooflung

Originally posted by: Thraxen

Originally posted by: hooflung
Thats just it... console FPS imo don't have that realism feel and its all because of the controller. Hopefully someone makes a good game that uses the Wii in such a way that they will be fun to me.

Because only being able to run or walk with nothing in between and being able to aim impossibly fast is more realistic? It's cool if you prefer KB/M, but don't base it on realism.

precision my man... precision is what makes kb/m feel more real. Just like I can chug a case of dew before airsoft and use military training to impact my game, I can dial up my MX518 to the dpi I need for that round of Fragging. Hardware diversity is like body type diversity. If someone isn't willing to invest out of PT time to practice moving through PT with full gear on to get extra edge on the field... its like someone buying a microsoft mouse and keyboard.

I on the other hand have invested in a G15 and a MX518. Together I can control the situation as much as the developer will allow me to. Where as the consoles... well... lets just say no matter how awesome someone can play that controller like they were Santana on the guitar... its still a controller that has to adhere to console maker standards.

😕

How does precision make it more real? If you learned how to aim with the joystick it is the same thing. It's just the fact that you're more comfortable with the KB/M setup. As for playing with certain pc peripherals.....lol. So buying "l33t" gaming KB/M things is equivalent to actually training and practicing? If that's the case then I should go replace my Dell keyboard and my G5 with new uber leet gear so I can get an "edge" on the competition. Please. Yeah, you can be awesome on the controller, and you know what? You'd probably own everyone else (with decent strats to coincide with those controller skills) you're playing against because EVERYONE ELSE is also using CONTROLLERS. So what else matters at that point?