What's up with all these newbies not willing to ship first?

[crystal]

Yeah, I have to laugh at people who claims ebay evals or any other ebay type trading places evals as useless, while claiming their heatwares are more creditable. They all involved transactions that imply trusts on both parties. Used a third party escow if you feel the need for protection. BTW, at least in my eyes, ebay have some kind of protection against faults, i.e., you can get some of your money back after a fee. But here, you can pretty much count your money good buy.

 

[Krye]

Originally posted by: minendo

Originally posted by: axiom
Why don't they matter? If you have a stellar record on Ebay why would it be any different if you bought or sold elsewhere?

Too many times trolls try to pass off other's evaluations as their own. Heatware is much easier to verify that it is in fact their own since an email address is posted and I can PM other members asking about the deals. eBay requires me to login and send mail through their own system, which is more time consuming and a waste of time in my opinion. eBay is much different than the trading community available here on AnandTech. I am not the only one that feels eBay references are useless, just ask many of the established traders here.

But on ebay you can also see other ppl that have purchased from the person you doing business with. Heatware is the same as ebay, you can verify someone's email by sending an email via ebay and you can email other members asking about their transactions with the member.
And yes, I have seen threads about ppl purchasing someone's ebay account with high evals so they can go scamming with it later. However, the same could be done with Heatware, so where's your arguement?

 

[GasX]

Originally posted by: LuNoTiCK
I don't really have heatwaare, but I would ship first only to some people. I would prefer getting the money before shipping out the item.

I would prefer receiving my item before releasing my cash... Either someone goes first or you cross ship.

 

[minendo]

Originally posted by: Krye
But on ebay you can also see other ppl that have purchased from the person you doing business with. Heatware is the same as ebay, you can verify someone's email by sending an email via ebay and you can email other members asking about their transactions with the member.
And yes, I have seen threads about ppl purchasing someone's ebay account with high evals so they can go scamming with it later. However, the same could be done with Heatware, so where's your arguement?

eBay is not a small trading community like AT. Many names are recognizable and trustworthy in the trading community, while contacting people through eBay is like contacting strangers.

 

[Krye]

Okay, but how's that going to help the newbie that doesn't know anyone? Second, how is that any different than getting to know a few key sellers on ebay and knowing them by name.

Case in point, I know 2 sellers of Dance Dance Revolution products on ebay. So if someone looks up their feedback and sees me as a purchaser, they email me asking how the tranaction went. I say I totally trust this person and they are trust worthy.

So again, how is that any different than Heatware?

Edit: and I'm not playing devil's advocate here. This topic seriously bugs me. I've worked hard to ensure all my tranactions go well for the buyer/seller regardless of where they are made. Therefore, I expect my feedback to be equally credible regardless of where it's left.

 

[minendo]

Originally posted by: Krye
Okay, but how's that going to help the newbie that doesn't know anyone? Second, how is that any different than getting to know a few key sellers on ebay and knowing them by name.

Case in point, I know 2 sellers of Dance Dance Revolution products on ebay. So if someone looks up their feedback and sees me as a purchaser, they email me asking how the tranaction went. I say I totally trust this person and they are trust worthy.

So again, how is that any different than Heatware?

You know them, but do I? No. eBay is not a small trading community and is not as trustworthy or as directed towards the small trading community of AT as heatware is.

 

[Krye]

So once again, how does it help a newbie to AT?

 

[minendo]

Originally posted by: Krye
So once again, how does it help a newbie to AT?

I never said it would help a newbie to AT. All newbies go through the same initiation process per say. I started out having 20 something positive eBay references, but still shipped first until I was fairly established. Like I said earlier, many of the established traders (as well as myself) see eBay references as nothing. You try and trade with me and provide nothing but eBay references, and I personally will not deal with you unless you ship first.

 

[MikeMike]

i normally want to ship second, but that is cuz my parents normally say they want the money in my hand first before i do anything

 

[Krye]

Ok, I suppose that's the most direct answer I've gotten from someone on this topic. Thanks for the discussion. I like discussing 😛

 

[MuffD]

I remember when I first started trading here, I was selling palm pilots for around 300-400 dollars. Didn't have any HEAT but a few auction feedbacks and there was no problem. Now, there are so many people trying to rip people off, you have to be really careful who you deal with.

 

[308nato]

If shipping first is something to be expected then it needs to be in the rules.

Those of you who cop an attitude because someone doesn't want to ship first should take a pill and move on. No big deal.

Its a personal preference for each party bound by the parameters of each deal.

Just because you shipped first during your "initiation", as someone called it, doesn't mean everyone else wants to be initiated into some kind of fraternity. They are doing business.

Heat has been pretty accurate for me in regards to assessing traders in the limited deals I have done. But in my opinion it is no more accurate or inaccurate than e-bay feedback.

The fact that anyone deals with unknown people over the internet under any circumstances still amazes me. It goes against everything that most of us were taught about money and how you use it.

So, if some people want the money first, that's what they are comfortable with. If you don't like it, you don't like it, but they don't deserve to be griefed over it.

 

[LikeLinus]

Well If you are a noob starting out, the best thing you can do is only buy from established traders or from others noobs and make them ship first. That's basically what I did. I purchased from people like vwkess, viperoni, smb (This was all AGN/PCA Forums). They were all established and well trusted traders. Then once I got my heatware up I was able to cross ship or have others ship first.

 

[Kenazo]

In re: to eBay...

Does anyone on eBay give a crap about my heatware....no. Does the FS/FT forum give a crap about your eBay refs...no.

Plain and simple, eBay and FS/FT are two different beasts...please don't confuse them. If you're an eBay powerseller good for you, you can understand how the system works...please appy that to this new method and arena of trade and build your heat, it shouldn't take long.

As for the newbs here who expect to have the money in your hands before I get the product...if you have no heatware, sorry. If my 79 heat evals mean so little to you that you can't trust me, how can you expect me to trust you when you have 0??? It's just not logical. A large amount of positive heat indicates that a person has succesfully completed that many transactions without a problem...they have a verifiable history. For me it has taken a few years to build that record...am I going to blow it now on a bad transaction?

Also, I do believe that if two persons are committed to making a deal work it will happen. Whether this is through the use of c.o.d. or even escrow.com, a secure deal for both parties can be made. There is no excuse.

Also, in response to something I read here...if a person with 100+ heat was being an ass about it, move on...but don't make the issue a heatware issue, maybe he was an ass, maybe you were an ass...in the end you didn't get along - so go deal with someone else.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Kenazo
In re: to eBay...

Does anyone on eBay give a crap about my heatware....no. Does the FS/FT forum give a crap about your eBay refs...no.

Plain and simple, eBay and FS/FT are two different beasts...please don't confuse them. If you're an eBay powerseller good for you, you can understand how the system works...please appy that to this new method and arena of trade and build your heat, it shouldn't take long.

As for the newbs here who expect to have the money in your hands before I get the product...if you have no heatware, sorry. If my 79 heat evals mean so little to you that you can't trust me, how can you expect me to trust you when you have 0??? It's just not logical. A large amount of positive heat indicates that a person has succesfully completed that many transactions without a problem...they have a verifiable history. For me it has taken a few years to build that record...am I going to blow it now on a bad transaction?

Also, I do believe that if two persons are committed to making a deal work it will happen. Whether this is through the use of c.o.d. or even escrow.com, a secure deal for both parties can be made. There is no excuse.

Also, in response to something I read here...if a person with 100+ heat was being an ass about it, move on...but don't make the issue a heatware issue, maybe he was an ass, maybe you were an ass...in the end you didn't get along - so go deal with someone else.

well anymore just because you have 70 good trades does not make it safe. i have read to many stories of guys with high evels starting to rip people off.

I will NOT ship first (unless its someone i recognize or have delt with before). if that bothers you then tough. you may not want what i have to sale but odds are someone else will.

though i like would do something like half up front and half aopon arrival (if you have say 70 good transactions). some need to get off the high horse about the heatware. anyone can and has ripped people off.

 

[Yzzim]

Interesting how the people saying they don't want to ship first are "Members" and "Senior Members" while many of the people who say the did ship first or would be willing to ship first are "Golden/Platinum/Diamond Members"

 

[brtspears2]

I dont like to ship first. If I do ship first, I start to get the heebee jeevibes about "OMG im going to be ripped off and I let it happen to myself and I can go rant on ATOT about how I shipped first to member X with y amount of heat."

I call it abuse of power. Not everyone has alot of "junk" to sell to boost that heatware. 2 yrs...and 8 heatware points later, Im still concidered a n00b. Besides, I give up on ATOT FS/T due to fact of low-ballers and "can you give me free shipping" and "can you ship first" Im selling dvds for $9 each, and people still dont trust me to send them a dvd if they give me money.

 

[Yzzim]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: Kenazo
In re: to eBay...

Does anyone on eBay give a crap about my heatware....no. Does the FS/FT forum give a crap about your eBay refs...no.

Plain and simple, eBay and FS/FT are two different beasts...please don't confuse them. If you're an eBay powerseller good for you, you can understand how the system works...please appy that to this new method and arena of trade and build your heat, it shouldn't take long.

As for the newbs here who expect to have the money in your hands before I get the product...if you have no heatware, sorry. If my 79 heat evals mean so little to you that you can't trust me, how can you expect me to trust you when you have 0??? It's just not logical. A large amount of positive heat indicates that a person has succesfully completed that many transactions without a problem...they have a verifiable history. For me it has taken a few years to build that record...am I going to blow it now on a bad transaction?

Also, I do believe that if two persons are committed to making a deal work it will happen. Whether this is through the use of c.o.d. or even escrow.com, a secure deal for both parties can be made. There is no excuse.

Also, in response to something I read here...if a person with 100+ heat was being an ass about it, move on...but don't make the issue a heatware issue, maybe he was an ass, maybe you were an ass...in the end you didn't get along - so go deal with someone else.

well anymore just because you have 70 good trades does not make it safe. i have read to many stories of guys with high evels starting to rip people off.

I will NOT ship first (unless its someone i recognize or have delt with before). if that bothers you then tough. you may not want what i have to sale but odds are someone else will.

though i like would do something like half up front and half aopon arrival (if you have say 70 good transactions). some need to get off the high horse about the heatware. anyone can and has ripped people off.

Like what was said above, heatware is a good indicator as to how the trader deals. It's very rare that a person with 70+ positive heatware is going to rip you off. The only reason you remember the stories of a person with high heatware ripping people off is because it doesn't happen that much.

I just don't see how you people with little to no heatware can go around demanding a deal like this. I never did it and rarely saw it happen back in the old AGN days. Though that doesn't really mean it didn't happen, I just never saw them.

I bet if you look back on all the trolls you'll find that the great majority of them had very little heatware and demanded the money first. Nick Caputo comes to mind actually. I remember almost dealing with him at Tom's Hardware Forum and my parents talked me out of it. I didn't know about heatware at the time so I didn't check his feedback. Once I came to AGN I realized what a troll he was. He had excellent deals but was unwilling to ship first. He demanded the money. Luckily I didn't deal with him.

I have never been trolled when sticking to my guns about not sending money first to a newbie. It has kept me troll free for the past 4 years and I'm sure it'll work in the future.

 

[Yzzim]

Originally posted by: brtspears2
I dont like to ship first. If I do ship first, I start to get the heebee jeevibes about "OMG im going to be ripped off and I let it happen to myself and I can go rant on ATOT about how I shipped first to member X with y amount of heat."

I call it abuse of power. Not everyone has alot of "junk" to sell to boost that heatware. 2 yrs...and 8 heatware points later, Im still concidered a n00b. Besides, I give up on ATOT FS/T due to fact of low-ballers and "can you give me free shipping" and "can you ship first" Im selling dvds for $9 each, and people still dont trust me to send them a dvd if they give me money.

9 heatware is a little thin, but when you've been around for 4+ years I'd definitely feel comfortable dealing with you. Especially with a $9 dvd 😉

 

[Daaavo]

Personally, I not only look at the number of Heatware evals, but also the quality of the deals (I.e. highend items -vs- $9 dvds).

_EDIT_


.......and also, I look at the people they've dealt with in the past. For some reason, I feel a lot more comfortable dealing with someone who has done a deal with someone I've dealt with previously.

 

[Kenazo]

Ok, I guess in response to the "people with high heat still might rip you off...it has happened before"

Yes, this is true...however, it can be seen that the vast, vast majority of bad deals occur with people that have little to no heat. Soooo which looks more risky:

#1 - Hi, I have an XP 1800+ for $35 shipped. But I absolutely will not ship first. Please send me the money. I know I have no heatware but I have a policy that I will not ship first and that is the way it is. If you don't want the deal please move on.

#2 - Hi, I have an XP 1800+ for $35 shipped. I have 100 positive heat evals and no negatives. I will not ship first to anyone with less than 1 million heatware evals.

Well ok, they both look bad and I don't think I would deal with either person😉 But the point is still that even if #2 is an ass, it is probably "safer" than #1. Ok, in caps NO HEAT IS RISKIER. The chance that a person with no heat will rip you off/is trolling is many many times higher than a person with a high amount of heat. PLEASE SEE IT FROM THE OTHER SIDE!!!

But, it is true that it is up to you!! If you don't want to ship first and are not willing to make a compromise, okie dokie no problem🙂 end of deal. I don't think that you will get much satisfaction out of the FS/FT forum, but heh take it to eBay😉

 

[Kenazo]

Also in the FS/FT guidelines it does *recommend* that people with no heat ship first. Note #3:

A brief guide for traders and suggestions what to do first if you think you have been ripped off by another trader:

1) Always ship with insurance and tracking #'s. If shipping expensive items, ship with delivery confirmation.

2) Always ask for a real name and home address, especially when trading with somebody who is unknown or has no heatware evals.

3) Always have other party ship first a if trader is unknown or has no heatware evals.

 

[GasX]

Note to people getting hoity toity about people getting hoity toity:

There are two sides to every deal. Unless you cross ship, someone ships first - money or goods. Why is your item more valuable than mine? It isn't. If you have no heatware, you ship first - unless we come to an agreement.

I don't buy the "I won't ship first because I don't want to get ripped off argument". That is just a selfish way of getting the other guy to ship first.

 

[gopunk]

jjust don't deal with them. their loss.

 

[Dedpuhl]

The past couple times I've used FS/FT, I've included my heatware, eBay references, and my association with a big card-traders org (www.gabtraders.com).

I have over 400 positive references without a single negative on eBay, and I've been a member of eBay since 1997. If it's too difficult for someone to click to ebay (via a link I generally provide) and check that the eBay dedpuhl is the Anandtech dedpuhl, then I don't want to deal with you anyway.

I have a rating of 8 right now with heatware. Until I build it higher, I will continue to use my eBay rating.


BTW, I have no problem cross-shipping or sending first, but I generally look to do that with people I've seen on AT for a while.