What's up with all these newbies not willing to ship first?

[Yzzim]

[rant on]

I've ran into 3 newbie traders within the past 2 days who are unwilling to ship first.

Don't these n00bs understand the way this forum works or what? They think I'm going to send them X amount of dollars because they're afraid of being ripped off....yet they have little to NO heatware? WTF?

Here's a PM I just got from a forum member here:

Sorry I dont want to ship first. I just have been ripped off before and dont want it to happen again, hope yah understand. I know you got a good Heatware, but I just want to be on the safe side, sorry again. Anyways let me know if you still want the game.

This guy has 1 (yes ONE) feedback at heatware. THAT IS IT. He's expecting me to send him the money first? Gimme a break.

Granted, it's only $27 but still....

When I first started out here I shipped first until I got about 25+ positive heatware. Didn't help that I started out with a negative, but still...

What's wrong with these newbies? Anyone else notice this?

 

[Chilled&Refined]

dunno
"these kids nowadays"

 

[rgwalt]

I haven't noticed the problem, but I haven't been buying/selling much lately either. If someone isn't willing to ship first, I usually ask if they'll cross-ship.

Bottom line is that it is their stuff, and if you aren't willing to play by their rules, they have every right to wait for someone who will.

Ryan

 

[dafatha00]

Hmm. Well there's no set way in which this forum works. While most people acknowledge that newbies should ship first, its really their choice as to whether or not they want to. I've seen people with a lot of heatware involved in bad trades ripping others off, especially recently. Trolls come in all forms, regardless of current heatware. If you want them to ship first and they don't want to, then don't deal with them. Plain and simple.

 

[Zugzwang152]

I rarely ship first. People have ripped others off with a great many positive evals. My only exceptions have been great deals, or people I've done business with before. I turned down a 100+ heat person today on a silly $20 deal because not only did he want me to ship first, but acted like his 100+ heat was worth more than it is. Heat is a general indicator, not the 11th Commandment.

 

[Yzzim]

Originally posted by: rgwalt
I haven't noticed the problem, but I haven't been buying/selling much lately either. If someone isn't willing to ship first, I usually ask if they'll cross-ship.

Bottom line is that it is their stuff, and if you aren't willing to play by their rules, they have every right to wait for someone who will.

Ryan

I understand that, it just seems like they expect me to send them the money right away.

Whatever happened to respect? When I saw people with 100+ (probably 50+ when I first started) positive heatware I had the utmost respect for them and wouldn't even imagine asking for payment first. Back when AT switched to FuseTalk I would ship first to people who were Senior Members, no questions asked.

 

[Zugzwang152]

Originally posted by: Yzzim

Originally posted by: rgwalt
I haven't noticed the problem, but I haven't been buying/selling much lately either. If someone isn't willing to ship first, I usually ask if they'll cross-ship.

Bottom line is that it is their stuff, and if you aren't willing to play by their rules, they have every right to wait for someone who will.

Ryan

I understand that, it just seems like they expect me to send them the money right away.

Whatever happened to respect? When I saw people with 100+ (probably 50+ when I first started) positive heatware I had the utmost respect for them and wouldn't even imagine asking for payment first. Back when AT switched to FuseTalk I would ship first to people who were Senior Members, no questions asked.

times change, the forums grow, neffing is rampant, and heat is still not God.

 

[Yzzim]

Originally posted by: Zugzwang152
I rarely ship first. People have ripped others off with a great many positive evals. My only exceptions have been great deals, or people I've done business with before. I turned down a 100+ heat person today on a silly $20 deal because not only did he want me to ship first, but acted like his 100+ heat was worth more than it is. Heat is a general indicator, not the 11th Commandment.

Heatware is a good indicator as to whether the person will rip you off or not. When you see that a guy sold an Xbox, PS2, Gamecube, Car cd player, and a countless number of expensive computer parts, you'd feel comfortable that he's not going to rip you out of your $27 xbox game.

When you say "My only exceptions have been great deals" do you mean that you'll send payment first to a person with little/no heatware if it's a great deal? Get ready to be trolled bud.

I remember when society was around before he was caught (a friend and I caught onto him and PM'd the mods about it) and he had awesome deals. People were sending him money left and right because the deals he had were so good. Too bad no one ever recieved anything....at least not that I know of.

 

[Zugzwang152]

Originally posted by: Yzzim

Originally posted by: Zugzwang152
I rarely ship first. People have ripped others off with a great many positive evals. My only exceptions have been great deals, or people I've done business with before. I turned down a 100+ heat person today on a silly $20 deal because not only did he want me to ship first, but acted like his 100+ heat was worth more than it is. Heat is a general indicator, not the 11th Commandment.

Heatware is a good indicator as to whether the person will rip you off or not. When you see that a guy sold an Xbox, PS2, Gamecube, Car cd player, and a countless number of expensive computer parts, you'd feel comfortable that he's not going to rip you out of your $27 xbox game.

When you say "My only exceptions have been great deals" do you mean that you'll send payment first to a person with little/no heatware if it's a great deal? Get ready to be trolled bud.

I remember when society was around before he was caught (a friend and I caught onto him and PM'd the mods about it) and he had awesome deals. People were sending him money left and right because the deals he had were so good. Too bad no one ever recieved anything....at least not that I know of.

You assume too much. Granted, I may have not traded much with heatware, but i'm also not a fool. there are good deals, and too good to be true deals. Please don't take me for a newbie or an idiot

 

[Yzzim]

Originally posted by: Zugzwang152

Originally posted by: Yzzim

Originally posted by: Zugzwang152
I rarely ship first. People have ripped others off with a great many positive evals. My only exceptions have been great deals, or people I've done business with before. I turned down a 100+ heat person today on a silly $20 deal because not only did he want me to ship first, but acted like his 100+ heat was worth more than it is. Heat is a general indicator, not the 11th Commandment.

Heatware is a good indicator as to whether the person will rip you off or not. When you see that a guy sold an Xbox, PS2, Gamecube, Car cd player, and a countless number of expensive computer parts, you'd feel comfortable that he's not going to rip you out of your $27 xbox game.

When you say "My only exceptions have been great deals" do you mean that you'll send payment first to a person with little/no heatware if it's a great deal? Get ready to be trolled bud.

I remember when society was around before he was caught (a friend and I caught onto him and PM'd the mods about it) and he had awesome deals. People were sending him money left and right because the deals he had were so good. Too bad no one ever recieved anything....at least not that I know of.

You assume too much. Granted, I may have not traded much with heatware, but i'm also not a fool. there are good deals, and too good to be true deals. Please don't take me for a newbie or an idiot

Just telling you to watch out, those good deals always make me a little leary. I've past up a countless number of good deals only because the seller would not ship first. Kinda stinks when I don't get the item, but I have yet to be trolled

 

[Zugzwang152]

likewise, and probably half my heat are from new heaters like myself. None had any problem paying first on sells, and to date, i've turned down only 3 because of unwillingness to pay first. Although today was my first 100+ person.

 

[Yzzim]

Originally posted by: Zugzwang152
likewise, and probably half my heat are from new heaters like myself. None had any problem paying first on sells, and to date, i've turned down only 3 because of unwillingness to pay first. Although today was my first 100+ person.

Yeah, I saw your heatware. I'd probably make you ship first or at least cross-ship (half payment now, half later) if you threw a huge fuss about it. You've been on AT long enough where it's obvious you didn't just come here to troll people. I'd probably stick to my guns and make you cross-ship or else the deal would be off.

Anyway, I just asked the n00b if he'd be happy with $10 now and $17 upon arrival, he said no. I then asked about half payment now/half upon arrival and he turned that down.

No way I'm going to deal with him now.

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

i have something like 8 heat evals. if the other person has more, i ship/pay first, and vice-versa. i've never had anyone refuse, and the vast majority of the time i deal with very established traders anyways. i've even had a few 100+ eval people cross-ship without me even asking, i guess because i have a high post count (without being an ATOT nef, i actually post informative things a decent percentage of the time ) and have been here for a while

if someone had fewer heat than me, and refused to ship/pay first, i'd find someone else to buy from. no sweat off my back..

 

[Geekbabe]

Originally posted by: Zugzwang152
I rarely ship first. People have ripped others off with a great many positive evals. My only exceptions have been great deals, or people I've done business with before. I turned down a 100+ heat person today on a silly $20 deal because not only did he want me to ship first, but acted like his 100+ heat was worth more than it is. Heat is a general indicator, not the 11th Commandment.

Heatware is the generally accepted standard by which this trading community governs itself.Yes,a good trader can go bad but the cases of that happening are far outweighed by the risk involved in sending your money off to a non-established newcomer.

I have good heat and while I might be willing to bring in another well established trader to hold money in escrow for a very large deal to relieve a new seller's anxiety,there's no way I'm paying or shipping first to a non-established traderr.The system we have here isn't foolproof but it's done much to make trading a safer more enjoyable experience.The AnandTech Troll hunters and the Heatware system have also played a very important role in setting the standards for hardware trading on other boards. The system for the most part works. Those of you who choose to go against the system are simply encouraging trolls to visit our forums and making a lot more work for our Troll Hunters.

 

[Kenazo]

I think too many of these newbie traders have migrated here from ebay, where of course the standard practice is to get the money, then ship out. I know I shipped out first for my first 30 or so transactions. I've never been trolled, unless you count when USPS lost my parcel once (which just happened to be sept12, 2001).
Anyway, I'm just tankful for heatware, however I wish it would be a little more secure. There is nothing stopping a couple of buddies from starting a bunch of acounts and giving each other great heat.

 

[josphII]

Originally posted by: axiom
Call me crazy but, I think you should pay for goods before you receive them. If you don't trust that person why are you even trying to deal with them. Move along. There is probably another buyer out there.

exactly.

newbie for NOT shipping first? SMART for not shipping first is more like it. Why should somebody risk sending an item first then having the person 1) not pay, 2) claim a defect in the item , 3) change his/her mind, 4) claim the item is DOA, or 5) say they cant get the item to work

 

[minendo]

I've got a nice collection of Heatware evaluations going for me and I still ship first on occasion. I have over 200 transactions online (heatware reflects about half of them) and have been trolled once. So what did I do? Instead of bitching about it, I contacted the TrollHunters and local agencies in the town where the troll lived. Sure enough I got my products as previously promised, and he will have a tough time trading in the future since he made the bad traders list.

Granted, newbies should ship first. Always remember that the TrollHunters are here to help and that plenty of members are also willing to help out.

Now for a new rant: Your eBay references don't mean crap to me so don't try passing them as references on these boards.

 

[Krye]

Long story short, buying/selling stuff on the internet from private parties is a trust relationship. Either side can screw the other side. It just depends on how much trust one party puts on the other as to how the transaction will go.

Edit: How come ebay refs don't mean anything? I've been selling on ebay for a few years now and that's where 90% of my feedback resides.

 

[Spac3d]

What the hell is heatware?

Spac3d

 

[benliong]

Originally posted by: josphII

Originally posted by: axiom
Call me crazy but, I think you should pay for goods before you receive them. If you don't trust that person why are you even trying to deal with them. Move along. There is probably another buyer out there.

exactly.

newbie for NOT shipping first? SMART for not shipping first is more like it. Why should somebody risk sending an item first then having the person 1) not pay, 2) claim a defect in the item , 3) change his/her mind, 4) claim the item is DOA, or 5) say they cant get the item to work

Wouldn't they be able to do 2 - 5 still even if they pay first? they can just demand a refund and if you don't they'll give you bad heat.

 

[tarheelmm]

I am a 'n00b' at selling on the FS\FT board. I would think that someone buying someone form me would pay first unless something else is worked out. Maybe thats just me

 

[LuNoTiCK]

I don't really have heatwaare, but I would ship first only to some people. I would prefer getting the money before shipping out the item.

 

[Transition]

I've never shipped first in a deal. Even when i had no Heatware and i sold a Mac G4 on here. I now have ~4 heatware and i still refuse to ship first. If i'm selling the product then i can create the terms on which the deal will be made. Simple as that. I always state in my FS threads that i will not ship first - although i still get a few persistent people who ask.

 

[minendo]

Originally posted by: axiom
Why don't they matter? If you have a stellar record on Ebay why would it be any different if you bought or sold elsewhere?

Too many times trolls try to pass off other's evaluations as their own. Heatware is much easier to verify that it is in fact their own since an email address is posted and I can PM other members asking about the deals. eBay requires me to login and send mail through their own system, which is more time consuming and a waste of time in my opinion. eBay is much different than the trading community available here on AnandTech. I am not the only one that feels eBay references are useless, just ask many of the established traders here.

 

[Kenazo]

What the hell is heatware?

Spac3d

click on the link in my sig. It's basically a way of establishing trust during on-line trades. For example I have 79 positive heatwares, meaning I've completed 79 trades, you can read about every single one of them, who they're with and what tehy're for. Obviously, if I've done close to 80 trades, I'm probably pretty reliable.