What's the point of high clutch engagement points

[xSkyDrAx]

I would imagine that around the 50% mark would have the best feel so I'm not sure why manufactuers like to have the clutch engagement points so high?

Is it just a 'feature' of certain cars? Does it benefit anyone?

 

[SkullWalker]

Some clutches use cables to operate them, some use hydraulics...

There are many parameters that determine the clutch engagement point but if you are not happy with yours, visit your local dealer and ask him, if he can set to lower or higher.

 

[xSkyDrAx]

Ah I see. Well was just curious as to why some cars have it higher than others. Particularly the ones where the engagement point is almost at the top of the pedal travel.

 

[darom]

I test drove a 2011 Sonata and stalled 3 times in the parking lot. I've been driving standard transmission cars all my life, but that Sonata left a sour feeling inside that day.

After researching a little, I found quite a few people struggling with the Hyundai's clutches, some even posted DIY fixes. Like this guy who replaced the stock stiff spring with a softer one to enable a better feel of the clutch engagement:
http://www.hyundai-forums.com/222-y...anual-transmission-clutch-biting-point-2.html

The moral of the story is to test drive your car before actually buying it

 

[SkullWalker]

Ah I see. Well was just curious as to why some cars have it higher than others. Particularly the ones where the engagement point is almost at the top of the pedal travel.

Well, I should have asked if we are talking about new or used car because a high engagement point or slipping clutch can be the symptoms of dying clutch. The first symptom indicates worn out pressure plate or bearing the latter indicates old and damaged friction plate.

 

[xSkyDrAx]

Is it because it's so high up or another reason?

 

[xSkyDrAx]

Well, I should have asked if we are talking about new or used car because a high engagement point or slipping clutch can be the symptoms of dying clutch. The first symptom indicates worn out pressure plate or bearing the latter indicates old and damaged friction plate.

Well the clutch was new so I don't think the clutch was dying. (was practicing on a friends civic) even he said he thought it was kind of weird but he's had it for a good while now. (4-5 years)

 

[SkullWalker]

Well the clutch was new so I don't think the clutch was dying. (was practicing on a friends civic) even he said he thought it was kind of weird but he's had it for a good while now. (4-5 years)

Dunno if Civic uses cable or hydraulics to operate the clutch but I am sure that the clutch pedal was not configured properly and if he has problems with that high engagement point, he should get it adjusted.

 

[darom]

Is it because it's so high up or another reason?

It was hard to feel when the clutch started to grab, thus the stalling 'humiliation'.

 

[xSkyDrAx]

It was hard to feel when the clutch started to grab, thus the stalling 'humiliation'.

yikes that sounds pretty annoying

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Probably so you don't have to press the pedal 6 inches to disengage when shifting. Trucks typically have low engagement points, cars usually have them near the top.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Probably so you don't have to press the pedal 6 inches to disengage when shifting. Trucks typically have low engagement points, cars usually have them near the top.

Pretty much this. I've noticed the higher and more abrupt clutch engagement mainly on newer cars, regardless of whether they use a cable or a hydraulic system. I think that manufacturers have just realized that this setup tends to prevent people from dragging the clutch between shifts.

ZV

 

[exdeath]

Standard physics. Trading force vs distance. The more distance between the top of the pedal to the floor, the lighter the throw and higher "resolution" for smoother operation. High performance cars will normally have a shorter throw with a harder pedal and less resolution;faster more precise shifts but requiring higher strength and skill to have a smooth ride.

 

[Evadman]

Standard physics. Trading force vs distance. The more distance between the top of the pedal to the floor, the lighter the throw and higher "resolution" for smoother operation. High performance cars will normally have a shorter throw with a harder pedal and less resolution;faster more precise shifts but requiring higher strength and skill to have a smooth ride.

That only matters if during the entire pedal travel, the clutch is being engaged/disengaged. In my Suzuki sidekick, the travel from fully engaged to fully disengaged was about 1 inch, but the pedal travel was about 4". I could adjust that 1" engagement travel to be anywhere in the 4" of pedal travel by adjusting the cable.

 

[Howard]

Pretty much this. I've noticed the higher and more abrupt clutch engagement mainly on newer cars, regardless of whether they use a cable or a hydraulic system. I think that manufacturers have just realized that this setup tends to prevent people from dragging the clutch between shifts.

ZV

It doesn't explain why there is so much dead travel in the pedal after the clutch has fully disengaged. What's the point of the last 10-20 degrees pivot in the pedal in most cars?

 

[manimal]

I have always thought that a clutch lite would be cool. Like say half the travel with a auto option. Twin clutch f1 style transmissions are great imo but to be able to clutch and get lighting fast switches would be to die for.

 

[Eli]

The engagement point is different in all 3 of my Insights. Takes a momentary mental adjustment whenever I drive a different one. It doesn't affect the overall driveability of the car or anything though.

I think a super high engagement point would annoy me overall though. It would make me feel like the clutch may not be able to fully engage or something.

 

[Zenmervolt]

It doesn't explain why there is so much dead travel in the pedal after the clutch has fully disengaged. What's the point of the last 10-20 degrees pivot in the pedal in most cars?

Margin of error for mass production is my theory.

ZV

 

[Howard]

Margin of error for mass production is my theory.

ZV

That's a huge margin. My old Civic completely disengaged after what felt like 2" of travel.

 

[Zenmervolt]

That's a huge margin. My old Civic completely disengaged after what felt like 2" of travel.

That's probably near the limit of the high end though. I would imagine that other Civics of the same model year have varying engagement points just as Eli's Insight does.

ZV

 

[Howard]

That's probably near the limit of the high end though. I would imagine that other Civics of the same model year have varying engagement points just as Eli's Insight does.

ZV

A friend's Accord in that same age period also had a similar feel, FWIW.

 

[JCH13]

Margin of error for mass production is my theory.

ZV

That's a huge margin. My old Civic completely disengaged after what felt like 2" of travel.

Enough margin to ensure that virtually every vehicle, regardless of clutch assembly variance, passes QC. Same reason why things like interior pieces have lots of adjustment in cars.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

I find it odd that there is so much differing views on this. I've had manuals for 10 years now, and from my SE-R Spec V, to my work truck, to my Mustang GT, they've all had similar feeling clutches. I guess maybe I never thought about where the engagement point is/was/or should be and just drive by feel. As far as the guy stalling, remember, it's not just about clutch work. Some cars have enough torque that you can just let off the clutch and the car will move and not stall, others you have to give a little gas, and others you dang near have to floor it to get them going.

I did drive a base sentra that had a clutch that felt like a sponge and the pedal travel was maybe 4". Horrible feeling.

 

[Zap]

I test drove a 2011 Sonata and stalled 3 times in the parking lot. I've been driving standard transmission cars all my life, but that Sonata left a sour feeling inside that day.

Heh, my Mazdaspeed 6 is kind of like that. Really touchy clutch take-up. I have also been driving manual transmissions all my life (since 10 years old out in the desert) and I've stalled that MS6 probably more than any other vehicle.

 

[NutBucket]

For reasons I cannot fathom my dad insists on buying cars with manual transmissions. I say this based on my parents' driving style...conservative.

Anyway, he bought a 2011 Sonata and I find it horrid to drive. I've driven the same car with an automatic and found it rather nice.

FWIW I daily drive a manual so it isn't as if I don't know how to drive them. Hyundai just doesn't have it right; no feel, crappy shifter and an overly aggressive throttle tip-in.