Whats the point in buying an Audi?

[rootaxs]

Both the "joe" and "luxury" branded cars are both built to the same spec and quality. When it all comes down to it, it really is an issue of brand recognition, pride and customer service from a particular dealership.

 

[SuperGroove]

I bought mine because of:

1)Quattro
2)The best damn engine Audi has ever brought to the United States


and because I couldn't afford a 944 Turbo.

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Originally posted by: NFS4

I mean, seriously, the dash and everything is exactly the same between the Audis and Volkswagens (much to my dismay,... I was turned off).

Since when did Audi's and VW's the same interiors? You're DEAD WRONG there.

To someone who doens't know any better, they look similar. Same style.

 

[Doggiedog]

I wouldn't say an ES300 is just a Camry. Have you sat in a Camry and an ES? They drive completely differently and are attired completely differently. What would you have Toyota do? Have them come out with a completely different chassis and components for each car line? If they can reuse designs while substantially differentiating them its a win-win situation for them. Look at Nissan. It isn't a coincidence that their return to profitability coinsided with the fact that their 3.5L VQ engine is in practically all their cars.

I'm not sure about the ES but my GS was built in Japan. I believe the Avalon, the Toyota version of the GS, is built in the US. So maybe they may be constructed a bit better.

I would agree with you about Acura and Honda though. I own an Acura and it is pretty cheap like a Honda. My friend has a TL and it feels like an Accord. I would disagree with you about Toyota/Lexus and VW/Audi though. Nissan/Inifiniti depends on the model.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: NFS4

I mean, seriously, the dash and everything is exactly the same between the Audis and Volkswagens (much to my dismay,... I was turned off).

Since when did Audi's and VW's the same interiors? You're DEAD WRONG there.

To someone who doens't know any better, they look similar. Same style.

Similar style. Not the same style. VW interiors tend to have a more classic element. Audi interiors are far sportier.

 

[isekii]

I believe all Lexus are built in Japan.

They even come with one of those Japanese papers saying when it was built, where etc..

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: Doggiedog
I wouldn't say an ES300 is just a Camry. Have you sat in a Camry and an ES? They drive completely differently and are attired completely differently. What would you have Toyota do? Have them come out with a completely different chassis and components for each car line? If they can reuse designs while substantially differentiating them its a win-win situation for them. Look at Nissan. It isn't a coincidence that their return to profitability coinsided with the fact that their 3.5L VQ engine is in practically all their cars.

I'm not sure about the ES but my GS was built in Japan. I believe the Avalon, the Toyota version of the GS, is built in the US. So maybe they may be constructed a bit better.

I would agree with you about Acura and Honda though. I own an Acura and it is pretty cheap like a Honda. My friend has a TL and it feels like an Accord. I would disagree with you about Toyota/Lexus and VW/Audi though. Nissan/Inifiniti depends on the model.

Your GS had/has its own platform. The Avalon is based on the Camry. But you're right, companies use similar patforms for cost reasons and it works GREAT. It's amazing at what companies can do with one single platform/drivetrain.

Toyota - Camry Base

Camry
Camry Solara
Avalon
Highlander
Sienna
ES300
RX300

Honda - Accord Base

Accord
TL
CL
Pilot
Odyssey
MDX

Honda - Civic Base

Civic
CRV
Element
RSX

Nissan - Altima Base

Altima
Maxima
Quest
Murano

Nissan - 350Z Base

350Z
G35
G35 Coupe
FX45

VW - Golf Base

Golf
Jetta
Beetle
A3
TT

Cadillac - CTS Base

CTS
SRX
Future Seville replacement


Any mainstream company that doesn't follow this formula is downright STUPID.

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Doggiedog
I wouldn't say an ES300 is just a Camry. Have you sat in a Camry and an ES? They drive completely differently and are attired completely differently. What would you have Toyota do? Have them come out with a completely different chassis and components for each car line? If they can reuse designs while substantially differentiating them its a win-win situation for them. Look at Nissan. It isn't a coincidence that their return to profitability coinsided with the fact that their 3.5L VQ engine is in practically all their cars.

I'm not sure about the ES but my GS was built in Japan. I believe the Avalon, the Toyota version of the GS, is built in the US. So maybe they may be constructed a bit better.

I would agree with you about Acura and Honda though. I own an Acura and it is pretty cheap like a Honda. My friend has a TL and it feels like an Accord. I would disagree with you about Toyota/Lexus and VW/Audi though. Nissan/Inifiniti depends on the model.

Your GS had/has its own platform. The Avalon is based on the Camry. But you're right, companies use similar patforms for cost reasons and it works GREAT. It's amazing at what companies can do with one single platform/drivetrain.

Toyota - Camry Base

Camry
Camry Solara
Avalon
Highlander
Sienna
ES300
RX300

Honda - Accord Base

Accord
TL
CL
Pilot
Odyssey
MDX

Honda - Civic Base

Civic
CRV
Element
RSX

Nissan - Altima Base

Altima
Maxima
Quest
Murano

Nissan - 350Z Base

350Z
G35
G35 Coupe
FX45

VW - Golf Base

Golf
Jetta
Beetle
A3
TT

Cadillac - CTS Base

CTS
SRX
Future Seville replacement


Any mainstream company that doesn't follow this formula is downright STUPID.

While chassis-component sharing is fine, it might get too out of hand. So far the Japanese manufacturers are ok in that respect (altho Nissan is saturating its engine in the line-up), but GM is getting out of hand with it. There are almost 6 SUVs based on the Envoy, they have multiple cars based on the Grand Am, etc..

And in their case the different models don't offer something substantially different from the rest.

Note chassis sharing != engine sharing. Cause the VQ35 is across the line-up but often on different platforms. Just wanted to clarify that. And I didn't know the Pilot was based on the Accord. Thought it was an all-new thing.

 

[Ryan]

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Doggiedog I wouldn't say an ES300 is just a Camry. Have you sat in a Camry and an ES? They drive completely differently and are attired completely differently. What would you have Toyota do? Have them come out with a completely different chassis and components for each car line? If they can reuse designs while substantially differentiating them its a win-win situation for them. Look at Nissan. It isn't a coincidence that their return to profitability coinsided with the fact that their 3.5L VQ engine is in practically all their cars. I'm not sure about the ES but my GS was built in Japan. I believe the Avalon, the Toyota version of the GS, is built in the US. So maybe they may be constructed a bit better. I would agree with you about Acura and Honda though. I own an Acura and it is pretty cheap like a Honda. My friend has a TL and it feels like an Accord. I would disagree with you about Toyota/Lexus and VW/Audi though. Nissan/Inifiniti depends on the model.

Your GS had/has its own platform. The Avalon is based on the Camry. But you're right, companies use similar patforms for cost reasons and it works GREAT. It's amazing at what companies can do with one single platform/drivetrain. Toyota - Camry Base Camry Camry Solara Avalon Highlander Sienna ES300 RX300 Honda - Accord Base Accord TL CL Pilot Odyssey MDX Honda - Civic Base Civic CRV Element RSX Nissan - Altima Base Altima Maxima Quest Murano Nissan - 350Z Base 350Z G35 G35 Coupe FX45 VW - Golf Base Golf Jetta Beetle A3 TT Cadillac - CTS Base CTS SRX Future Seville replacement Any mainstream company that doesn't follow this formula is downright STUPID.

While chassis-component sharing is fine, it might get too out of hand. So far the Japanese manufacturers are ok in that respect (altho Nissan is saturating its engine in the line-up), but GM is getting out of hand with it. There are almost 6 SUVs based on the Envoy, they have multiple cars based on the Grand Am, etc.. And in their case the different models don't offer something substantially different from the rest. Note chassis sharing != engine sharing. Cause the VQ35 is across the line-up but often on different platforms. Just wanted to clarify that. And I didn't know the Pilot was based on the Accord. Thought it was an all-new thing.

I still dont' see what the problem is with sharing an engine....

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

While chassis-component sharing is fine, it might get too out of hand. So far the Japanese manufacturers are ok in that respect (altho Nissan is saturating its engine in the line-up), but GM is getting out of hand with it. There are almost 6 SUVs based on the Envoy, they have multiple cars based on the Grand Am, etc..

And in their case the different models don't offer something substantially different from the rest.

Note chassis sharing != engine sharing. Cause the VQ35 is across the line-up but often on different platforms. Just wanted to clarify that. And I didn't know the Pilot was based on the Accord. Thought it was an all-new thing.

A couple of things.

1) There is NOTHING wrong with saturating the VQ35. It is an AWESOME engine!
2) Chassis sharing for the most part DOES equal engine sharing. Of all the platforms I listed, they ALL share the same basic engine design (with a few exceptions) and transmissions.

Camry Platform (3.0 liter V6, 3.3 liter V6) <-- same architecture
Accord Platform (3.0 liter SOHC V6, 3.5 SOHC V6) <-- same architecture
Altima Platform (3.5 liter DOHC V6)
350Z Platform (3.5 liter DOHC V6, V8 upgrade on certain models)
Civic Platform -- exception here (1.8, 2.0, 2.4 liter I4's)
Golf Platform (1.8 liter I4)
CTS Platform (3.2 liter V6, V8 upgrade on certain models)


3) The Pilot is based on the MDX which is based on the Odyssey which is based on the Accord

 

[KokomoGST]

Originally posted by: Doggiedog
I wouldn't say an ES300 is just a Camry. Have you sat in a Camry and an ES? They drive completely differently and are attired completely differently. What would you have Toyota do? Have them come out with a completely different chassis and components for each car line? If they can reuse designs while substantially differentiating them its a win-win situation for them. Look at Nissan. It isn't a coincidence that their return to profitability coinsided with the fact that their 3.5L VQ engine is in practically all their cars.

I'm not sure about the ES but my GS was built in Japan. I believe the Avalon, the Toyota version of the GS, is built in the US. So maybe they may be constructed a bit better.

I would agree with you about Acura and Honda though. I own an Acura and it is pretty cheap like a Honda. My friend has a TL and it feels like an Accord. I would disagree with you about Toyota/Lexus and VW/Audi though. Nissan/Inifiniti depends on the model.

Yeah, I've sat in both... and I've sat in overseas versions too. Basically changed a few things here and there, a Camry is an ES. Same basic chassis, just better stuff in the interior and other stuff to make it quieter, ride different, etc. You'd be amazed what a few tweaks can do to a car. Some of the Sentras and Corollas they have are really nicely trimmed, on the level of our luxury brands. But it's still a Nissan/Toyota/Honda... love it or hate it for what it is.

Toyota has lots of cars that they sell domestically that they don't sell here. Same deal for Nissan. We do get cars they don't get though. Similar to Audi and VW, they may share components but that doesn't mean there aren't noticeable differences. Jag uses Ford's Duratec... Mazda does too, but their versions aren't quite the same.

There are cases where the luxury US version and standard US version are pretty much the same. Heck, the TL is called the Accord Insight in Japan I think... it is an Accord. European reviewers that drove the Jag X and Ford Mondeo thought that the Jag wasn't worth the big bump in price. Should be the same for you, drive both and decide if it's worth it.

The only thing that kinda gets to me is when people worship the US luxo brands as if they're not the same as their parent company. Some people even get very upset about it. I call their Lexus or Acura a Toyota or Honda, they get kinda mad.

 

[Doggiedog]

While chassis-component sharing is fine, it might get too out of hand. So far the Japanese manufacturers are ok in that respect (altho Nissan is saturating its engine in the line-up), but GM is getting out of hand with it. There are almost 6 SUVs based on the Envoy, they have multiple cars based on the Grand Am, etc..

Bingo! You hit the nail right on the head! That stupid kind of thinking is what is killing the domestic manufacturers. That is what killed Plymouth and Oldsmobile and will probably kill a couple more brands too (like Mercury). What was the difference between a Plymouth Voyager and a Chrysler Caravan? How about a Ford LTD and a Mercry Grand Marquis? Not much right?

I think if you are going to share same components and chassis, you've got to do it the right way and substantially differentiate them. I think GM is starting to do a good job with it now with their new (is it Omega) platform that Saab uses for their 9-3.

 

[dcdomain]

Didn't really read through all the posts... but...

QUATTRO...

And so what if Nissan/Infiniti, Honda/Acura, Toyota/Lexus, VW/Audi share parts? They are more reliable than BMW's and especially Mercedes! And don't flame me for being a hater or whatever. My family has owned all types of cars, Japanese, European, Domestic... surprisingly, we had less problems with the domestics than the European makes!

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

1) There is NOTHING wrong with saturating the VQ35. It is an AWESOME engine!

Didn't say its wrong. I meant that some people who would buy, say a FX35, wouldn't want their precious engine in a lowly Altima. I meant it like that in terms of prestige and yuppi-ness.

) Chassis sharing for the most part DOES equal engine sharing. Of all the platforms I listed, they ALL share the same basic engine design (with a few exceptions) and transmissions.

I mean while the ALtima and Z both have the VQ35, they are on totally different platforms.

Even the new Altima and current 2003 Maxima have the same engine but totally different platforms.

Bingo! You hit the nail right on the head! That stupid kind of thinking is what is killing the domestic manufacturers. That is what killed Plymouth and Oldsmobile and will probably kill a couple more brands too (like Mercury). What was the difference between a Plymouth Voyager and a Chrysler Caravan? How about a Ford LTD and a Mercry Grand Marquis? Not much right?

Agree with you on everything but Olds. Their cars were different. I mean the Intruige was quite different than its counterparts (GrandAm, etc..).

 

[Ryan]

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

1) There is NOTHING wrong with saturating the VQ35. It is an AWESOME engine!

Didn't say its wrong. I meant that some people who would buy, say a FX35, wouldn't want their precious engine in a lowly Altima. I meant it like that in terms of prestige and yuppi-ness.

) Chassis sharing for the most part DOES equal engine sharing. Of all the platforms I listed, they ALL share the same basic engine design (with a few exceptions) and transmissions.

I mean while the ALtima and Z both have the VQ35, they are on totally different platforms. Even the new Altima and current 2003 Maxima have the same engine but totally different platforms.

Bingo! You hit the nail right on the head! That stupid kind of thinking is what is killing the domestic manufacturers. That is what killed Plymouth and Oldsmobile and will probably kill a couple more brands too (like Mercury). What was the difference between a Plymouth Voyager and a Chrysler Caravan? How about a Ford LTD and a Mercry Grand Marquis? Not much right?

Agree with you on everything but Olds. Their cars were different. I mean the Intruige was quite different than its counterparts (GrandAm, etc..).

Do you think that most car owners are even aware of the fact that Nissan uses the VQ engine throughout most of thier lineup? I'd almost guarantee that most don't, and that most don't care

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Originally posted by: rbloedow

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

1) There is NOTHING wrong with saturating the VQ35. It is an AWESOME engine!

Didn't say its wrong. I meant that some people who would buy, say a FX35, wouldn't want their precious engine in a lowly Altima. I meant it like that in terms of prestige and yuppi-ness.

) Chassis sharing for the most part DOES equal engine sharing. Of all the platforms I listed, they ALL share the same basic engine design (with a few exceptions) and transmissions.

I mean while the ALtima and Z both have the VQ35, they are on totally different platforms. Even the new Altima and current 2003 Maxima have the same engine but totally different platforms.

Bingo! You hit the nail right on the head! That stupid kind of thinking is what is killing the domestic manufacturers. That is what killed Plymouth and Oldsmobile and will probably kill a couple more brands too (like Mercury). What was the difference between a Plymouth Voyager and a Chrysler Caravan? How about a Ford LTD and a Mercry Grand Marquis? Not much right?

Agree with you on everything but Olds. Their cars were different. I mean the Intruige was quite different than its counterparts (GrandAm, etc..).

Do you think that most car owners are even aware of the fact that Nissan uses the VQ engine throughout most of thier lineup? I'd almost guarantee that most don't, and that most don't care

I dunno. I figure if you spend $30k+ on a car (or anything for that matter) you'd better know what it is your buying.

 

[NFS4]

I mean while the ALtima and Z both have the VQ35, they are on totally different platforms.

I never said that the Altima and 350Z shared platforms. Where'd you see that? I listed EACH platform and listed the platform-mates. For the most part, platform-mates share the same chassis/powertrain.

Even the new Altima and current 2003 Maxima have the same engine but totally different platforms

The Altima and '04 Maxima share the same platform. My listing included all current and future models, as you can tell by my inclusion of the RX330, Quest, and SRX into the listings.

 

[KokomoGST]

Originally posted by: rbloedow

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

1) There is NOTHING wrong with saturating the VQ35. It is an AWESOME engine!

Didn't say its wrong. I meant that some people who would buy, say a FX35, wouldn't want their precious engine in a lowly Altima. I meant it like that in terms of prestige and yuppi-ness.

) Chassis sharing for the most part DOES equal engine sharing. Of all the platforms I listed, they ALL share the same basic engine design (with a few exceptions) and transmissions.

I mean while the ALtima and Z both have the VQ35, they are on totally different platforms. Even the new Altima and current 2003 Maxima have the same engine but totally different platforms.

Bingo! You hit the nail right on the head! That stupid kind of thinking is what is killing the domestic manufacturers. That is what killed Plymouth and Oldsmobile and will probably kill a couple more brands too (like Mercury). What was the difference between a Plymouth Voyager and a Chrysler Caravan? How about a Ford LTD and a Mercry Grand Marquis? Not much right?

Agree with you on everything but Olds. Their cars were different. I mean the Intruige was quite different than its counterparts (GrandAm, etc..).

Do you think that most car owners are even aware of the fact that Nissan uses the VQ engine throughout most of thier lineup? I'd almost guarantee that most don't, and that most don't care

But then if they start their yuppy bragging spree and you decide to knock them down a few notches with such knowledge they tend to get all pissy

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Originally posted by: NFS4

I mean while the ALtima and Z both have the VQ35, they are on totally different platforms.

I never said that the Altima and 350Z shared platforms. Where'd you see that? I listed EACH platform and listed the platform-mates. For the most part, platform-mates share the same chassis/powertrain.

Even the new Altima and current 2003 Maxima have the same engine but totally different platforms

The Altima and '04 Maxima share the same platform. My listing included all current and future models, if you can tell by my inclusion of the RX330, Quest, and SRX into the listings.

I never said you said the Altima and Z shared platform. I guess I should have said that engine sharing doesn't always mean platofrm sharing. Cuase the just cause two autos may have the same engine, don't mean they have the same platform. Thats what i meant originally. I prefer doing comparisions in Java-style

btw, SRX is out this fall? Interesting. So how does this fall in the line up? Under the Escalade or in front. This means that Caddy has to change its naming scheme on the Escalade too.

 

[RU482]

what's the difference between a Civic DX and a Civic EX??? Features and amenities!!! Think of it like this, The I35 is just a really cool looking high end Maxima...and so on and so forth

 

[Doggiedog]

Agree with you on everything but Olds. Their cars were different. I mean the Intruige was quite different than its counterparts (GrandAm, etc..).

The Aurora and the Intrigue were nice but too late. I was talking about cars like the Cutlass Cieras, 88s and Buick Centurys and Le Sabres. They were practically the same.

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Originally posted by: Doggiedog

Agree with you on everything but Olds. Their cars were different. I mean the Intruige was quite different than its counterparts (GrandAm, etc..).

The Aurora and the Intrigue were nice but too late. I was talking about cars like the Cutlass Cieras, 88s and Buick Centurys and Le Sabres. They were practically the same.

I wasn't aware that the Cutlass Ciera and 88s were being sold in the late 90s. Hehe I know those cars tho, its quite popular over here. They are all rusted but they still run.

 

[Doggiedog]

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: Doggiedog

Agree with you on everything but Olds. Their cars were different. I mean the Intruige was quite different than its counterparts (GrandAm, etc..).

The Aurora and the Intrigue were nice but too late. I was talking about cars like the Cutlass Cieras, 88s and Buick Centurys and Le Sabres. They were practically the same.

I wasn't aware that the Cutlass Ciera and 88s were being sold in the late 90s. Hehe I know those cars tho, its quite popular over here. They are all rusted but they still run.

No but undifferentiated stuff like that led to its demise. I don't think even with the Intrigue and Aurora, they Olds could offset their image of an old man's car because of junk like that.

You can see Buick trying really hard to shake that image too with all those Tiger Woods and Harley Earl commercials. Buick still has that old man's stigma.

 

[ChicagoMaroon]

Just one example: What VW has the Audi's Multitronic Continuously Variable Transmission? Once you drive a tranmission with infinite gear ratios, you will never go back.

Plus Audis are a study in clean, beautiful, efficient industrial design. VW makes nice cars, Audis are a work of art.

<-- Happy 2003 Audi A4 owner.

 

[JYDog]

Originally posted by: rbloedow

Originally posted by: JYDog
The easiest way to tell if a manufacture is cheating you in the departments you talked above is to measure their engine line-ups. If the make have only two or three engines spread over like 7 or 8 cars, its not a good sign.

Obviously this comment was aimed twards Nissan/Infiniti. What's so wrong with it? If anyhting, it's an advantage

Well, nothing is wrong from the manufacturer's point of view. They save a bundle in the process by keeping it simple and still can field the same number of cars to the showrooms. HOWEVER, from a buyers point of view you're really getting short change, in the varieties of engines. Theres no way you can suit everyone's own personal driving style with just one or two engines(which btw, comes sometimes in only automatic transmissions!). I think VW has it about right, they offer atleast 3 different engines for each of their cars and for the most part they're available in both manual and auto(plus sometimes, all-wheel-drive), for example, the Passat has 1.8T, 2.8/3.0, W8, and a 2.0tdi is on the way too. Compare that to what you get with Nissans, Toyotas....