What's the difference?

[smc13]

I keep seeing the word "neocon" used around here. I understand you mean neo-conservative, but I don't understand how it is supposed to be different then your garden variety conservative.

I've always thought there were two types of conservatives; free market conservatives and social conservatives. A free market conservative to me is someone who is a pro-business captitalist. They are interested in low taxes, and a small government that keeps the market free of monopolies, but otherwise stays away from business. The social conservatives are the pro traditional family values. They believe that families should have a mommy and a daddy. They believe that religion is good, abortion and drugs are bad, homosexuality is wrong, and that everyone should believe in the sames things they do.

So what is a neocon?

 

[nageov3t]

Compared to other U.S. conservatives, neoconservatives are characterized by an aggressive moralist stance on foreign policy, a lesser social conservatism, weaker dedication to a policy of minimal government, and a greater acceptance of the welfare state.
...
As a rule, the term refers more to journalists, pundits, policy analysts, and institutions affiliated with the Project for the New American Century (PNAC) and with Commentary and The Weekly Standard than to more traditional conservative policy think tanks such as the American Enterprise Institute (AEI) and Heritage Foundation or periodicals such as Policy Review or National Review. The neoconservatives, often dubbed the neocons by supporters and critics alike, are credited with or blamed for influencing U.S. foreign policy, especially under the administrations of Ronald Reagan (1981-1989) and George W. Bush (2001-present). Neoconservatives have often been singled out for criticism by opponents of the 2003 invasion of Iraq, many of whom see this invasion as a neoconservative initiative.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism_%28United_States%29

 

[3chordcharlie]

a neoconservative is a free-market neoliberal, who paradoxically subscribes to an aggressive foreign policy of 'protecting interests'.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: smc13

So what is a neocon?

Hannity, Rush, Coulter just to name a few

 

[smc13]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: smc13

So what is a neocon?

Hannity, Rush, Coulter just to name a few

The "I can't define it but I know it when I see it" decription. nice.

 

[smc13]

Originally posted by: loki8481

Compared to other U.S. conservatives, neoconservatives are characterized by an aggressive moralist stance on foreign policy, a lesser social conservatism, weaker dedication to a policy of minimal government, and a greater acceptance of the welfare state.
...
As a rule, the term refers more to journalists, pundits, policy analysts, and institutions affiliated with the Project for the New American Century (PNAC) and with Commentary and The Weekly Standard than to more traditional conservative policy think tanks such as the American Enterprise Institute (AEI) and Heritage Foundation or periodicals such as Policy Review or National Review. The neoconservatives, often dubbed the neocons by supporters and critics alike, are credited with or blamed for influencing U.S. foreign policy, especially under the administrations of Ronald Reagan (1981-1989) and George W. Bush (2001-present). Neoconservatives have often been singled out for criticism by opponents of the 2003 invasion of Iraq, many of whom see this invasion as a neoconservative initiative.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism_%28United_States%29

You got to love how they lump Reagan and Bush II together, like they are actually alike.

 

[Colt45]

one of the features is that conservatives want smaller government, less government controls (traditionally)

Neocons seem quite the opposite, in this respect.

 

[Proletariat]

Neo-cons = impatient liberals.

 

[smc13]

Originally posted by: Proletariat
Neo-cons = impatient liberals.

Funny, but I have been thinking that Bush II is pretty much a liberal that just doesn't like Saddam, taxes, or abortion.

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: smc13

Originally posted by: loki8481

Compared to other U.S. conservatives, neoconservatives are characterized by an aggressive moralist stance on foreign policy, a lesser social conservatism, weaker dedication to a policy of minimal government, and a greater acceptance of the welfare state.
...
As a rule, the term refers more to journalists, pundits, policy analysts, and institutions affiliated with the Project for the New American Century (PNAC) and with Commentary and The Weekly Standard than to more traditional conservative policy think tanks such as the American Enterprise Institute (AEI) and Heritage Foundation or periodicals such as Policy Review or National Review. The neoconservatives, often dubbed the neocons by supporters and critics alike, are credited with or blamed for influencing U.S. foreign policy, especially under the administrations of Ronald Reagan (1981-1989) and George W. Bush (2001-present). Neoconservatives have often been singled out for criticism by opponents of the 2003 invasion of Iraq, many of whom see this invasion as a neoconservative initiative.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism_%28United_States%29

You got to love how they lump Reagan and Bush II together, like they are actually alike.

they're not so much comparing the two men as much as they are the men that the two presidents had working for them.

 

[DealMonkey]

I agree with Wikipedia when they state, "...[the] word is overused and lacks coherent definition."

 

[Vic]

Compared to other U.S. conservatives, neoconservatives are characterized by an aggressive moralist stance on foreign policy, a lesser social conservatism, weaker dedication to a policy of minimal government, and a greater acceptance of the welfare state.

Bingo!

Neocons = pro-military/pro-moral legislation/pro-corporate welfare/big government/borrow-and-spend LIBERALS

In essence, we now have 2 forms of liberals. Pro-establishment and anti-establishment.

Neocons are only conservative in their own rhetoric, not in fact. Traditional conservatives believe in small government, fiscal responsibility, defensive military, relative isolationism, laissez faire business environment, and leaving moral legislation issues to the states.

Reagan was a good man, but he was far more conservative in rhetoric than in actual policy.

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: Vic

Compared to other U.S. conservatives, neoconservatives are characterized by an aggressive moralist stance on foreign policy, a lesser social conservatism, weaker dedication to a policy of minimal government, and a greater acceptance of the welfare state.

Bingo!

Neocons = pro-military/pro-moral legislation/pro-corporate welfare/big government/borrow-and-spend LIBERALS

Reagan was a good man, but he was far more conservative in rhetoric than in actual policy.

Yea right. Give me Bush II over Reagan anyday. Bush is bad, but some previous Republican presidents were straight up assholes.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Vic
Neocons are only conservative in their own rhetoric, not in fact. Traditional conservatives believe in small government, fiscal responsibility, defensive military, relative isolationism, laissez faire business environment, and leaving moral legislation issues to the states.

Assuming that's an accurate portrayal, why is there not more of a rift between traditional conservatives and the current administration?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Vic
Neocons are only conservative in their own rhetoric, not in fact. Traditional conservatives believe in small government, fiscal responsibility, defensive military, relative isolationism, laissez faire business environment, and leaving moral legislation issues to the states.

Assuming that's an accurate portrayal, why is there not more of a rift between traditional conservatives and the current administration?

Fear of the Democrat horde

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: Vic

Compared to other U.S. conservatives, neoconservatives are characterized by an aggressive moralist stance on foreign policy, a lesser social conservatism, weaker dedication to a policy of minimal government, and a greater acceptance of the welfare state.

Bingo!

Neocons = pro-military/pro-moral legislation/pro-corporate welfare/big government/borrow-and-spend LIBERALS

Reagan was a good man, but he was far more conservative in rhetoric than in actual policy.

Yea right. Give me Bush II over Reagan anyday. Bush is bad, but some previous Republican presidents were straight up assholes.

Right, so were previous Democratic presidents.

Don't be such a Party animal. Both parties have major flaws and both are guilty of some sort of egregious act in the past. Who entered Vietnam?

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Vic
Neocons are only conservative in their own rhetoric, not in fact. Traditional conservatives believe in small government, fiscal responsibility, defensive military, relative isolationism, laissez faire business environment, and leaving moral legislation issues to the states.

Assuming that's an accurate portrayal, why is there not more of a rift between traditional conservatives and the current administration?

Fear of the Democrat horde

So it's a reversal of the "anyone but Bush" mindset? Makes sense, I guess.

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Vic
Neocons are only conservative in their own rhetoric, not in fact. Traditional conservatives believe in small government, fiscal responsibility, defensive military, relative isolationism, laissez faire business environment, and leaving moral legislation issues to the states.

Assuming that's an accurate portrayal, why is there not more of a rift between traditional conservatives and the current administration?

party unitity and a fear of retribution.

 

[piasabird]

Neocon is some label that the press started using because they could not pronounce conservative! Besides, it sounds meaner and more down to the earth so poor undereducated sixpack liberals can understand it.

 

[NJDevil]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Vic
Neocons are only conservative in their own rhetoric, not in fact. Traditional conservatives believe in small government, fiscal responsibility, defensive military, relative isolationism, laissez faire business environment, and leaving moral legislation issues to the states.

Assuming that's an accurate portrayal, why is there not more of a rift between traditional conservatives and the current administration?

Fear of the Democrat horde

So it's a reversal of the "anyone but Bush" mindset? Makes sense, I guess.

Republicans are really well organized and are willing to not speak their mind for the benefit of the party. Dems aren't as well organized and they have lots of diverse ideas, so it's harder for them to "not speak their mind"

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: smc13
I keep seeing the word "neocon" used around here. I understand you mean neo-conservative, but I don't understand how it is supposed to be different then your garden variety conservative.

I've always thought there were two types of conservatives; free market conservatives and social conservatives. A free market conservative to me is someone who is a pro-business captitalist. They are interested in low taxes, and a small government that keeps the market free of monopolies, but otherwise stays away from business. The social conservatives are the pro traditional family values. They believe that families should have a mommy and a daddy. They believe that religion is good, abortion and drugs are bad, homosexuality is wrong, and that everyone should believe in the sames things they do.

So what is a neocon?

A "neocon" in P&N terms is anyone a Liberal doesn't agree with. You see, they seem to think it's an all-purpose derogatory word for the right.

CsG

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: piasabird
Neocon is some label that the press started using because they could not pronounce conservative! Besides, it sounds meaner and more down to the earth so poor undereducated sixpack liberals can understand it.

Oh please.... :roll:

Are you going to try to tell me that GW signing the largest and most expensive socialized healthcare bill in the history of the United States was the act of a true traditional conservative?
How about those budget deficits and spending increases?
Nationalization of airline security (TSA)?
Or his attorney general fighting it out in the courts to squash states' rights?

I could go on and on here...

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
A "neocon" in P&N terms is anyone a Liberal doesn't agree with. You see, they seem to think it's an all-purpose derogatory word for the right.

CsG

And the word "liberal" isn't the same for the neocons (and for a lot longer)? Let's not be too hypocritical, CAD...

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
A "neocon" in P&N terms is anyone a Liberal doesn't agree with. You see, they seem to think it's an all-purpose derogatory word for the right.

CsG

And the word "liberal" isn't the same for the neocons (and for a lot longer)? Let's not be too hypocritical, CAD...

No, "liberal" is not an all-purpose derogatory word. The left seems to shy away from it for whatever reasons though. Liberal is a broad ideological term - just like Conservative.
I am proud to be be a Conservative and embrace it, I'm not sure why more liberals don't embrace their ideology -they seem to want to change the name all the time and not admit they are a liberal.

CsG

 

[cwjerome]

NeoCon: Former Democrats whose main goal is to push a foreign policy centered around helping Israel