Red Dawn
Elite Member
- Jun 4, 2001
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<< just proves one more time how on Anandtech people that express belief in a 'God' are roundly persecuted >>
Yeah right. Because I express what I believe religion is you feel persecuted. You don't have to agree (and you obviously don't) but that doesn't mean that you are being persecuted. You sound almost like a Liberal when you claim to be victimized.
<< I am truly sorry that you enjoy the evil that lives inside your heart. >>
Evil in my heart? Wow, what makes you think I have evil in my heart, because I don't believe in the buillsh!t that you do as far as religion is concerned?
- Oct 28, 1999
- 62,484
- 8,345
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Observation based off of this board - Conservatives get incredibly defensive when you call them on something.
They also like to point out any wrongdoing done by "that other party" whether or not "that other party" was actually at fault.
They also like to point out any wrongdoing done by "that other party" whether or not "that other party" was actually at fault.
Amused
Elite Member
- Apr 14, 2001
- 57,455
- 19,923
- 146
<< Observation based off of this board - Conservatives get incredibly defensive when you call them on something.
They also like to point out any wrongdoing done by "that other party" whether or not "that other party" was actually at fault. >>
Oh now, the liberals do the same thing. A prime example is Classy. Just because it hasn't happened yet in this thread doesn't mean it doesn't happen in equal frequency.
Amused
Elite Member
- Apr 14, 2001
- 57,455
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<< Religion aside, the Constitution gives the un-born the right to life. >>
Abortion was legal in all states until a campaign in the late 1800s to stop it.
And I find nowhere in pre 20th century court cases were an unborn child given the same rights as one born.
My thoughts on the subject?
If it cannot live outside the mother's womb, it is part of her body and she may do with it as she pleases. This is why I only favor restrictions on third trimester abortions with exceptions for the mother's health.
My logic? Well, if someone attached Richard Simmons to me, and he was sharing my liver and therefore would die if I had him removed, I would not hesitate in cutting him lose to free myself. My body, and whatever is attached to it, is mine, and sovereign. Once it is no longer attached, it is sovereign and subject to it's own rights.
Liberals tend to believe that government should take a more comprehensive role in everyday life. A liberal tends to think that government will provide a higher level of ethics and standard of living for more people than would be the case if such things were left more exclusively to the private sector. They tend to believe that a large government is the best way to sustain such a diverse society. Hence, the current government is viewed as the best arbiter of what is "good." This leads to a more fluid and subjective interpreting of the Constitution. When it comes to judicial proceedings and law, liberals tend to think in personal ideas of justice. The idea of justice comes first; the laws are simply paper and can be interpreted in light of the current situation.
Conservatives tend to think that government historically and consistently becomes more bloated, invasive, and controlling. They tend to believe that smaller, more efficient government that focuses on a few basic issues is the best way to sustain such a diverse society. Hence conservatives tend to be constructionist in their views of the U.S. Constitution and seek to limit the scope and influence of the government (especially the federal government) in daily life. When it comes to judicial proceedings and law, conservatives tend to think in terms of objective, established law. If a law is unjust, it should be argued and removed first. The current situation is interpreted in light of established law, not established law being interpreted in light of the current situation.
There are tremendous variations though. Religious conservatives tend to want smaller government, but then argue for government legislation of morality. Plus there is always the grab for power. Many politicians embrace the philosophy that gives them the best chance to advance. If that philosophy threatens their advancement, the philosophy changes. I am not saying that philsophies cannot legitimatley evolve and change. Just that some politicans are not philosophical about their affiliation at all. It is a pure power play. They often are what their environment told them to be and use that pre-existing programming to further their personnal aggrandizement.
Of course, I never do that
Conservatives tend to think that government historically and consistently becomes more bloated, invasive, and controlling. They tend to believe that smaller, more efficient government that focuses on a few basic issues is the best way to sustain such a diverse society. Hence conservatives tend to be constructionist in their views of the U.S. Constitution and seek to limit the scope and influence of the government (especially the federal government) in daily life. When it comes to judicial proceedings and law, conservatives tend to think in terms of objective, established law. If a law is unjust, it should be argued and removed first. The current situation is interpreted in light of established law, not established law being interpreted in light of the current situation.
There are tremendous variations though. Religious conservatives tend to want smaller government, but then argue for government legislation of morality. Plus there is always the grab for power. Many politicians embrace the philosophy that gives them the best chance to advance. If that philosophy threatens their advancement, the philosophy changes. I am not saying that philsophies cannot legitimatley evolve and change. Just that some politicans are not philosophical about their affiliation at all. It is a pure power play. They often are what their environment told them to be and use that pre-existing programming to further their personnal aggrandizement.
Of course, I never do that
Generally, I would associate supply side economics with conservatives and demand side with liberals. This topic is just asking for me to flame supply side economics, but I will not get dragged into it. This is my only contribution to this thread, I'm sick of political flamewars. As for other differnces, basically what AmusedOne said.
Speaking in grand generalities, I think AmusedOne's original post was pretty on the spot. You can't truly boil down "liberal and conservative" to a few sentences, but I think AmusedOne gave a good Cliff's Notes version
Lethal
Lethal
The technical terms being used by the media these days over abortion are Abortion Activists and Anti-Abortion Activists. Enough with this life, death, choice crap.
Back to the main topic, Winston Churchill said it best: "Any man under thirty who is not a liberal has no heart, and any man over thirty who is not a conservative has no brains."
A generalization: Liberals want to help everyone with excessive amounts of government taxing and spending, with no thought to the consequences. That is, they think more with their hearts than their brains. Conservatives care less about the working poor or the homeless on the streets; they want less taxation and less spending on the needy. That is, they think more with their brains than their hearts.
The ideal philosophy is a mixture of heart and brains, which lies somewhere in the middle.
Back to the main topic, Winston Churchill said it best: "Any man under thirty who is not a liberal has no heart, and any man over thirty who is not a conservative has no brains."
A generalization: Liberals want to help everyone with excessive amounts of government taxing and spending, with no thought to the consequences. That is, they think more with their hearts than their brains. Conservatives care less about the working poor or the homeless on the streets; they want less taxation and less spending on the needy. That is, they think more with their brains than their hearts.
The ideal philosophy is a mixture of heart and brains, which lies somewhere in the middle.
Hi Nesud:
I appreciate sarcasm, but lest a partial quote of my post ignite another flamefest, if you're going to quote me, at least quote the entire phrase. I didn't say, devoid of any context, that
<< A liberal tends to think that government will provide a higher level of ethics. . . >>
I said
<< A liberal tends to think that government will provide a higher level of ethics and standard of living for more people than would be the case if such things were left more exclusively to the private sector. >>
The tension is between the private sector and the government. Certainly there are at least a fair number of examples where the government forced a higher level of ethics on the private sector than would have been the case if the government had stayed totally "laissez-faire." I can admit that fact even though I am, if forced into the simplistic grid of liberal versus conservative, a conservative.
Of course, flaming the other side can be fun while it lasts
I appreciate sarcasm, but lest a partial quote of my post ignite another flamefest, if you're going to quote me, at least quote the entire phrase. I didn't say, devoid of any context, that
<< A liberal tends to think that government will provide a higher level of ethics. . . >>
I said
<< A liberal tends to think that government will provide a higher level of ethics and standard of living for more people than would be the case if such things were left more exclusively to the private sector. >>
The tension is between the private sector and the government. Certainly there are at least a fair number of examples where the government forced a higher level of ethics on the private sector than would have been the case if the government had stayed totally "laissez-faire." I can admit that fact even though I am, if forced into the simplistic grid of liberal versus conservative, a conservative.
Of course, flaming the other side can be fun while it lasts
Conservatives- each one is blessed with a fully functioning brain.
Liberals- each have more teeth than brain cells.
Liberals- each have more teeth than brain cells.
Liberals like to spend money.
Conservatives like to spend money while complaining about liberals spending money.
Conservatives like to spend money while complaining about liberals spending money.
<< Liberals tend to believe that government should take a more comprehensive role in everyday life. A liberal tends to think that government will provide a higher level of ethics and standard of living for more people than would be the case if such things were left more exclusively to the private sector. They tend to believe that a large government is the best way to sustain such a diverse society. Hence, the current government is viewed as the best arbiter of what is "good." This leads to a more fluid and subjective interpreting of the Constitution. When it comes to judicial proceedings and law, liberals tend to think in personal ideas of justice. The idea of justice comes first; the laws are simply paper and can be interpreted in light of the current situation. >>
In my opinion, subjectivitity in law should be a no-no. ("Well, I don't think the law should apply in this case because it doesn't feel right.")
More later....
Conservatives focus on what works and stick with it.
Liberals focus on what doesn't work and try to fix those things.
Liberals focus on what doesn't work and try to fix those things.
Red Dawn
Elite Member
- Jun 4, 2001
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<< Conservatives focus on what works and stick with it.
Liberals focus on what doesn't work and try to fix those things >>
Good points about both sides. Unfortunately they both tend to stray from those goals.
It's been said that Moderates are like fresh road kill, right smack in the middle of the road. If that's true then Conservatives and Liberals are like week old road kill, either on the left or right side of the road, decaying and smelling up to high heavan. At least they give the fly's a place to lay their eggs.
<< OK, you want my own biased opinion?
Well, here it is anyway
They're both control freak fascists. The Conservatives, while honorable for wanting less government and less taxes, want to regulate your personal morality, and ban every vice they can find. The hypocrisy in this is astounding, and every thinking conservative I've ever met fell quickly to the libertarian way of thinking.
The liberals while honorable for wanting equality and freedom from morality regulation, want a nanny state government with control over our lives for our own "safety"... never saw a tax they didn't like, and believe the elite must dictate to the "stupid people" how to live their lives for two reasons: they know better, and since they are paying for everything through government programs, they argue your personal irresponsibility is costing everyone else money. Therefore they have the right to dictate how you live your life, even if you aren't harming anyone else.
In short, conservatives want to save your soul from yourself through law, and liberals want to save your body from yourself, through law.
They both need to mind their own gawddamn business and stop worrying about everyone else. >>
AmusedOne
Just to put my $.02 in you hit it on the head. Now look at the real difference. If you throw out the morality stuff on the far right side it is almost perfect IMHO. As for the far left if you throw it out we are still screwed.
So hang to the right and ignore the far right.
So do you hang to the right or left?
Yes, amazing how conservatives made this thread go down fill very quickly.
yup, they feed on their own paranoia.
yup, they feed on their own paranoia.
glenn1
Lifer
- Sep 6, 2000
- 25,383
- 1,013
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<< What's the difference between a liberal and a conservative? >>
I think as an experiment, we should ask both when they believe was "the good old times."
The conservative would likely say the Roaring 20's, the age of great prosperity under Warren Harding and Calvin Coolidge, granting of women's suffrage, "family-friendly" entertainment like Charlie Chaplin films, and ever-increasing American pre-eminence in the world's economy. Convieniently forgotten would be such seminal events during the same time, such as Prohibition, the founding of the KKK, and the laying of the groundwork for the Great Depression.
The liberal in turn would no doubt respond with the 1960s, the days of Kennedy's Camelot, civil rights movement, the Great Society, and "peace and free love." Conviently forgotten would be the race riots, Bay of Pigs, the Black Panthers, and undermining of the fundamental idea of the virtue of a democratic government by anti-war and other anti-U.S. protestors.
Take your pick which vision of the "golden days" is more appealing (or appalling), depending on your own point of view.
Red Dawn
Elite Member
- Jun 4, 2001
- 57,529
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From my point of view (and those anti Clintonites will probably wail) I think the 90's were the good old days. Hell the Republkicans were in the House and the Democrats were in the White House nullifying each other so nobody could really fsck things up. If the worse we had to contend with was a Wanker from Arkansas bagging some portly bitch in the Oval Office (or was it the Oval Orifice) I think we really didn't have much to worry about.
Right now many of the Younger members who came of age during the 90's will have the 90's to remember as prosperous times and the crap that had people wringing their hands was actually pretty trivial.
Right now many of the Younger members who came of age during the 90's will have the 90's to remember as prosperous times and the crap that had people wringing their hands was actually pretty trivial.
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