What's the deal with Elite:Dangerous?

[Red Storm]

The only thing that annoys me about Elite is the flight model. It doesn't make sense to me why the ship can rotate very easily, but yaw is really sluggish. It makes it feel like atmospheric flight, which makes the whole space part feel fake.

 

[DigDog]

The only thing that annoys me about Elite is the flight model. It doesn't make sense to me why the ship can rotate very easily, but yaw is really sluggish. It makes it feel like atmospheric flight, which makes the whole space part feel fake.

^^ this ten times over.

its not a space sim; its a "not-space" "thing" with stars and lasers.

 

[SLU Aequitas]

The only thing that annoys me about Elite is the flight model. It doesn't make sense to me why the ship can rotate very easily, but yaw is really sluggish. It makes it feel like atmospheric flight, which makes the whole space part feel fake.

Gameplay balance to prevent Turret-in-Space Syndrome. If you look at the ship design (esp Cobra/Sidewinder) they're also going to roll/pitch far better than yaw.

 

[flexy]

Does anyone PLAY the beta? (standard beta)
Is it worth the €60?

Why is the (not yet released) FULL GAME €40 while the beta is €60?
Does purchasing the beta include the full game later on?
(Again, why is the beta more than the retail game?)

Edit: So it SEEMS that purchasing Beta (standard) also includes "the full game once it is released".
But reading some previews it sounds to me like purchasing the standard beta without the multi-player is relatively pointless. Even the Premium beta (&#8364;120 <--- for what????) WITH the current MP seems to have bugs (ok, not surprising) and you cannot do more than "shoot other players or blink your lights at them"...

Would there be any point in buying the standard beta without the MP?

 

[futurefields]

^^ this ten times over.

its not a space sim; its a "not-space" "thing" with stars and lasers.

Wait let me guess you donated to Star Citizen.

 

[Markbnj]

^^ this ten times over.

its not a space sim; its a "not-space" "thing" with stars and lasers.

That's disappointing to read.

 

[futurefields]

That's just one person's opinion and you don't even know who that guy is. I would take it with a grain of salt. He sounds like he has donated to Star Citizen. There is a major fued between the space sim geeks right now between those who donated a ton of money to Star Citizen and those who will be playing Elite: Dangerous when it comes out this year.

Here's an entire forum thread talking about why Elite feels better than SC. Everybody has an opinion.

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/141340/why-elite-dangerous-feels-better

^ and that's a Star Citizen-centric forum.

 

[Red Storm]

Gameplay balance to prevent Turret-in-Space Syndrome. If you look at the ship design (esp Cobra/Sidewinder) they're also going to roll/pitch far better than yaw.

I get that it's a decision made by the devs, but it's just odd to me. Feels like they want a space setting but none of the actual realities of space flight. I understand people have their preferences though, so I'm glad there are two major space games being made so that both preferences can be appeased.

Despite my gripes over the flight mechanics, I will still more than likely be getting Elite when it releases (definitely getting Star Citizen) because I still think I will be able to enjoy the game overall and I want to support the genre as a whole.

 

[Karstein]

I get that it's a decision made by the devs, but it's just odd to me. Feels like they want a space setting but none of the actual realities of space flight.

I get your point, but I don't think you can really put too much weight into what is 'correct' in terms of space flight considering ED is set in 3300. Who knows what sort of technology we'll have then? The devs can really do whatever they want. I'm happy as long as it's fun to play and they're making justifications for their decisions.

 

[SLU Aequitas]

Does anyone PLAY the beta? (standard beta)
Is it worth the €60?

Why is the (not yet released) FULL GAME €40 while the beta is €60?
Does purchasing the beta include the full game later on?
(Again, why is the beta more than the retail game?)

Edit: So it SEEMS that purchasing Beta (standard) also includes "the full game once it is released".
But reading some previews it sounds to me like purchasing the standard beta without the multi-player is relatively pointless. Even the Premium beta (€120 <--- for what????) WITH the current MP seems to have bugs (ok, not surprising) and you cannot do more than "shoot other players or blink your lights at them"...

Would there be any point in buying the standard beta without the MP?

Standard Beta has full MP access when the Standard Beta goes live (July 29). They provided early access to the SP (re: basically training) missions early. They did the same model when I originally purchased the Premium Beta. See my earlier post as to why they've priced the Alpha and Beta access packages the way they did.

I get that it's a decision made by the devs, but it's just odd to me. Feels like they want a space setting but none of the actual realities of space flight. I understand people have their preferences though, so I'm glad there are two major space games being made so that both preferences can be appeased.

Despite my gripes over the flight mechanics, I will still more than likely be getting Elite when it releases (definitely getting Star Citizen) because I still think I will be able to enjoy the game overall and I want to support the genre as a whole.

The model is realistic and like I said, if you look at those designs (basically wedges with maneuvering thrusters located top/bottom) the lower yaw power makes absolute sense. And it makes sense from a gameplay perspective as well. I'll start having more issues when I see designs that SHOULD have strong/reasonable yaw power due to design/thruster placement yet DON'T behave realistically.

And I also have SC too (when they fix HOTAS input).

 

[Fallen Kell]

Crowd funding isn't the only way these games can get made, there are other ways to fund a business beyond asking for donations upfront or seeking a publisher. Its a choice to monetise in this way and its certainly not in our best interests as gamers to have DLC planned before a game even releases, sold before the game is finished let alone the DLC even started. EA is a lot better behaved than Elite dangerous has been for DLC rubbish and overcharging.

I actually disagree with this statement. There are not really any ways to fund a genera of gameplay that hasn't existed in the market within the last 6-12 months anymore, let alone come up with new novel gameplay. Developers are expensive ($90-150k depending on experience), and most AAA games take about 3-4 years of development work, so even for a small team of 10 developers, that is upwards of $6million just for the developers alone, not counting operations costs (development PC's, software licenses, electricity, building space), artists, PR, management/leadership.

You need about $30-100 million to develop a AAA title with only a 20-30% chance of being a success if you are not a sequel to an existing successful franchise. That is more money than the current firms are willing to risk on a likely failure. Without finding a way to get an income stream during development, most of these games would not be made.

 

[Midwayman]

I get that it's a decision made by the devs, but it's just odd to me. Feels like they want a space setting but none of the actual realities of space flight. I understand people have their preferences though, so I'm glad there are two major space games being made so that both preferences can be appeased.

Despite my gripes over the flight mechanics, I will still more than likely be getting Elite when it releases (definitely getting Star Citizen) because I still think I will be able to enjoy the game overall and I want to support the genre as a whole.

Trouble is that with real physics for space flight it becomes pretty tough to keep track of your velocity relative to your orientation. I'm pretty sure something like dogfights don't even really make sense in terms of how actual space battles would work out. Ever read the Honor Harrington series of books? If you accept their sci-fi drive premise it goes about space battles in pretty logical way.

 

[Markbnj]

I'm pretty sure something like dogfights don't even really make sense in terms of how actual space battles would work out. Ever read the Honor Harrington series of books? If you accept their sci-fi drive premise it goes about space battles in pretty logical way.

They definitely don't. How you would maneuver to shoot at another ship aside, just getting two ships into the same part of space, moving at the same relative velocity along similar vectors would take a tremendous amount of time, energy, or both.

So since it's unrealistic at best, the only important thing to me is that it feels "science fiction realistic" for lack of a better term. What would be real if my fantasies about it came true, as opposed to something obviously game-ey and arcade-ey.

 

[futurefields]

I'd be happy with a Tie Fighter reboot, so yeah. Don't care much for scientific accuracy.

 

[SLU Aequitas]

They definitely don't. How you would maneuver to shoot at another ship aside, just getting two ships into the same part of space, moving at the same relative velocity along similar vectors would take a tremendous amount of time, energy, or both.

So since it's unrealistic at best, the only important thing to me is that it feels "science fiction realistic" for lack of a better term. What would be real if my fantasies about it came true, as opposed to something obviously game-ey and arcade-ey.

If it felt Sci-Fi-ey, we'd be dealing with AI computers in which we'd press a button, and we would engage each other thousands of kilometers away, without ever seeing our opponent (going off of the Honor Harrington series portrayal of space combat, I'd highly suggest The Lost Fleet series). There's no game in that. Otherwise, we'll be playing a game dogfighting in space, which actually *is* fun.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Why all the hate between SC and Elite? They're different games and yes you could own both. I bought into SC's kick starter and did not with Elite. This does not mean I don't want both to be successful.
Why all the nerd rage?

 

[Harabec]

People will fight over ANYTHING, even which game is "better" when they can just play both.
It is mankind's favorite sport.

Other than that, most of the posts in the above linked SC thread deal with real concerns over how a fun space dynamics model should be.

 

[DigDog]

Wait let me guess you donated to Star Citizen.

Nope.

I used to love Elite back on the C64 but fact is, that gameplay is ancient now.
The same way i dont want my rockets to autoaim like they did in DOOM, i dont want to play a game where all you do is loop .. and loop .... and loop ...

I think that we're mature enough - as PC gamers - to have a semi-realistic space sim. The E guys dont think so.

I wouldn't say i "bashed" ED before, but i expressed my opinions in the other thread; Elite Dangerous looks to me like it's gonna wind up being a game very similar to EVE, with many pointless complexities which in the end boil down to two ships circling each other to take advantage of the limitations of the game design.

 

[HitAnyKey]

Graphically the game is looking very nice.

Fingers crossed this game has enough complexity to make it fun but without the ridiculous need to multibox or pay to win. We have too few space games so I hope this at least keeps the others guy working hard to make theirs better.

 

[futurefields]

pretty sure both ED and SC are "old school" games in the sense that there wont be any dlc or microtransactions. you buy the game, you get the whole game. just like the good old days.

 

[DigDog]

i'm loving the way you play "lets ignore the reasonable criticism";

 

[ShintaiDK]

The main issue that seems to reflect most threads is, that Elite Dangerous is nearing completion and delivering everything on time with a much smaller budget. While Star Citizen is barely in what you can call alpha stage with a massive backing. If I had invested 100s of $ in spaceship pixels in Star Citizen and seen the (mis)management of the project. I would worry too.

One game will come out in 2014. The other maybe in 2016 if it doesnt turn into another Duke Nukem Forever.

 

[Red Storm]

The main issue that seems to reflect most threads is, that Elite Dangerous is nearing completion and delivering everything on time with a much smaller budget. While Star Citizen is barely in what you can call alpha stage with a massive backing. If I had invested 100s of $ in spaceship pixels in Star Citizen and seen the (mis)management of the project. I would worry too.

One game will come out in 2014. The other maybe in 2016 if it doesnt turn into another Duke Nukem Forever.

Yes because they both started development at the exact same time with the exact same goals...

 

[thedosbox]

Yes because they both started development at the exact same time with the exact same goals...

To be fair, managing a budget of that size is no easy task. And it's not like Chris Roberts has an unblemished track record of delivering on time and as promised.

 

[rivethead]

The main issue that seems to reflect most threads is, that Elite Dangerous is nearing completion and delivering everything on time with a much smaller budget. While Star Citizen is barely in what you can call alpha stage with a massive backing. If I had invested 100s of $ in spaceship pixels in Star Citizen and seen the (mis)management of the project. I would worry too.

One game will come out in 2014. The other maybe in 2016 if it doesnt turn into another Duke Nukem Forever.

This is somewhat my position. I didn't invest hundreds of dollars. I invested $45 in SC two months ago. It was, admittedly, and impulse buy. But now that I've spent two months researching and following the development, I've come to the conclusion that SC will never be released. We might get lucky with Squadron 42 (which is what I'm really more interested in anyway) and see it in 2016 or 2017. Maybe.

The problem with SC, in my opinion, is that they can't seem to say "no". They're spending time/money on all this useless shit people have asked for. Examples:

fishtanks with exotic space fish
space plants that bloom
jukeboxes in your hangar

I think the next stretch goal is to hire a linguist to create new alien languages!

Honestly I am hoping, that the $50 million stretch goal is:

Hire a bunch of talented project managers and finish the fraking game this decade.

But it won't be. It'll be something like: a commercial for furniture inside your expanding room hangar concept!