What's in YOUR wallet? (hint: it is not money) UPDATE: INTERVIEW WITH AUTHOR

[Eli]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
wait?

you mean i can't go to a jewler and buy $5000.00 worth of gold with my $5000.00??

so, what exactly did i lose out on?

I'm really failing to understand the whole point. What he says sounds great on paper, but how does it actually affect us?

You haven't answered that question yet.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: z0mb13

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: z0mb13

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: z0mb13

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: TuxDave
Ok, so since you read the book, perhaps you can do some additional thinking.

1) So now what. Should we go back minting all our currency from precious metals?
2) Is our current system hurting our economy?
3) Does his advice stem from wordplay or will it improve our economy?

Please share.

1) No, currency can remain in paper form. Paper currency is the best kind of currency, this I agree with. However, it must be paper currency of the 2nd definition, which is currency which can be converted into money on demand.

2) Yes, our current system certainly is hurting our economy. This has been documented very well by top economists such as Hayek, Rothbard and Friedman.

3) His (I assume you mean the author's) advice certainly would improve the economy because his advice is to return to honest weights and measures.

explain how the current system is hurting the economy...

That has already been done

state the major points of the book please... I dont have the time and patience to read through that

In sum the Austrian insight holds that counterfeiting will have far more unfortunate consequences for the economy than simple inflation of the price level.

I'm sorry, but that insight cannot be summed up for someone who has ADD.

if that is indeed the summary of the whole book, the gov is doing everything possible to prevent counterfeiting.

While economists disagree about many issues, there is near unanimity about this one: continuing inflation occurs when the rate of growth of the money supply consistently exceeds the growth rate of output (of the economy).

Laurence Ball - Professor of economics at Princeton University and visiting scholar of the Philidelphia Fed.

Inflation is merely a symptom of the disease called counterfeiting. So I ask you: who is doing it?

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Laurence Ball - Professor of economics at Princeton University and visiting scholar of the Philidelphia Fed.

Inflation is merely a symptom of the disease called counterfeiting. So I ask you: who is doing it?

Hmm.. maybe.. Counterfeiters?



Are you talking about counterfeiters as in, people creating fake money, or are you saying that the government is counterfeiting our own money?

WTF?

 

[Pepsei]

I read everything and his points are interesting. What IF we were back in the days of $20 gold piece? Our dollar would not be as devalued as they are today.

I still have some Morgran silver dollars and they're worth more than just a dollar because it is real money.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
wait?

you mean i can't go to a jewler and buy $5000.00 worth of gold with my $5000.00??

so, what exactly did i lose out on?

Do you have any idea how much gold $5,000 would have gotten you in say 1922? The fact that you can buy gold is meaningless if you do not use the gold as money.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Laurence Ball - Professor of economics at Princeton University and visiting scholar of the Philidelphia Fed.

Inflation is merely a symptom of the disease called counterfeiting. So I ask you: who is doing it?

Hmm.. maybe.. Counterfeiters?



Are you talking about counterfeiters as in, people creating fake money, or are you saying that the government is counterfeiting our own money?

WTF?

I don't think there is any non-governmental counterfeiting ring that could print billions of dollars worth of paper currency. Put down the marijuana pipe and figure it out.

 

[Dissipate]

Everyone thinks this is about going back to the gold standard, it is not. Free tri-metalism is what is needed.

Text

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Dissipate
It is not the way things are. It is the way people have made them. You continue to attempt to insult my intelligence, instead of trying to logically disprove my arguments and the arguments of the author of the book quoted in the OP.

There is a reason I am not logically arguing your points. It is because one can never use logic to dissuade a person from a position that logic did not guide them into. There is no logic involved in your crackpot theories. Because of this, logic cannot talk you out of your delusions. There is an old saying, "You cannot reason with a crazy man".

ZV

 

[Spencer278]

Originally posted by: Dissipate
Everyone thinks this is about going back to the gold standard, it is not. Free tri-metalism is what is needed.

Text

What would be the effect of aritfically increasing the demand for copper, gold and silver on the economy when those metals are extremily important for every day uses. Isn't it a waste of copper to use it as money when it could be better used a wires or pipes?

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Laurence Ball - Professor of economics at Princeton University and visiting scholar of the Philidelphia Fed.

Inflation is merely a symptom of the disease called counterfeiting. So I ask you: who is doing it?

Hmm.. maybe.. Counterfeiters?



Are you talking about counterfeiters as in, people creating fake money, or are you saying that the government is counterfeiting our own money?

WTF?

I don't think there is any non-governmental counterfeiting ring that could print billions of dollars worth of paper currency. Put down the marijuana pipe and figure it out.

Isn't counterfeiting a multi-billion dollar enterprise? Shrug, it didn't seem outlandish.

Maybe instead of resorting to personal attacks, you should address the original question. It would make you seem less.. crackpotish.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: Spencer278

Originally posted by: Dissipate
Everyone thinks this is about going back to the gold standard, it is not. Free tri-metalism is what is needed.

Text

What would be the effect of aritfically increasing the demand for copper, gold and silver on the economy when those metals are extremily important for every day uses. Isn't it a waste of copper to use it as money when it could be better used a wires or pipes?

Copper, silver and gold do not have fixed supplies. There are many gold mines that are mothballed because the price of gold is not high enough for them to make a profit. Once gold started to be used as currency its demand would go up and the mines would have more incentive to operate and expand the money supply. Once the supply went up, the price would stabilize and gold could still be used in industry.

What is the difference between the expansion of this money supply and the Fed's? Real labor was put into it. to expand the money supply all the Fed has to do is hit a button on a computer and instantly a trillion dollars is created. To extract gold from the Earth requires a true blue business operation.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Laurence Ball - Professor of economics at Princeton University and visiting scholar of the Philidelphia Fed.

Inflation is merely a symptom of the disease called counterfeiting. So I ask you: who is doing it?

Hmm.. maybe.. Counterfeiters?



Are you talking about counterfeiters as in, people creating fake money, or are you saying that the government is counterfeiting our own money?

WTF?

I don't think there is any non-governmental counterfeiting ring that could print billions of dollars worth of paper currency. Put down the marijuana pipe and figure it out.

Isn't counterfeiting a multi-billion dollar enterprise? Shrug, it didn't seem outlandish.

Maybe instead of resorting to personal attacks, you should address the original question. It would make you seem less.. crackpotish.

Ok, let's see here. If the economy expands by about 3% and you have 1% inflation, that means that the Fed increased the money supply by 4%. That is 4% of trillions of dollars, do the math. No criminal organization could EVER pull off an operation on a scale that large. I don't care how organized it is. Furthermore, that would mean that a relatively large % of paper currency would be counterfeit, when in fact a counterfeit FRT is pretty damn rare (excluding of course the "official" counterfeiting).

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: Spencer278

Originally posted by: Dissipate
Everyone thinks this is about going back to the gold standard, it is not. Free tri-metalism is what is needed.

Text

What would be the effect of aritfically increasing the demand for copper, gold and silver on the economy when those metals are extremily important for every day uses. Isn't it a waste of copper to use it as money when it could be better used a wires or pipes?

Copper, silver and gold do not have limited supplies.

They don't?

Does the planet you live on have replicators and transporters?

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: Spencer278

Originally posted by: Dissipate
Everyone thinks this is about going back to the gold standard, it is not. Free tri-metalism is what is needed.

Text

What would be the effect of aritfically increasing the demand for copper, gold and silver on the economy when those metals are extremily important for every day uses. Isn't it a waste of copper to use it as money when it could be better used a wires or pipes?

Copper, silver and gold do not have limited supplies.

They don't?

Does the planet you live on have replicators and transporters?

I should have said fixed supplies. So sue me. Technically these metals can be made in what is known as a superconducting supercollider, so I am still right.

 

[z0mb13]

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: Spencer278

Originally posted by: Dissipate
Everyone thinks this is about going back to the gold standard, it is not. Free tri-metalism is what is needed.

Text

What would be the effect of aritfically increasing the demand for copper, gold and silver on the economy when those metals are extremily important for every day uses. Isn't it a waste of copper to use it as money when it could be better used a wires or pipes?

Copper, silver and gold do not have limited supplies.

They don't?

Does the planet you live on have replicators and transporters?

I should have said fixed supplies. So sue me. Technically these metals can be made in what is known as a superconducting supercollider, so I am still right.

so u are saying that we can MAKE gold, silver, and copper. SO once the whole world is flooded by these fake things, the US currency system will fail, NO?

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: z0mb13

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: Spencer278

Originally posted by: Dissipate
Everyone thinks this is about going back to the gold standard, it is not. Free tri-metalism is what is needed.

Text

What would be the effect of aritfically increasing the demand for copper, gold and silver on the economy when those metals are extremily important for every day uses. Isn't it a waste of copper to use it as money when it could be better used a wires or pipes?

Copper, silver and gold do not have limited supplies.

They don't?

Does the planet you live on have replicators and transporters?

I should have said fixed supplies. So sue me. Technically these metals can be made in what is known as a superconducting supercollider, so I am still right.

so u are saying that we can MAKE gold, silver, and copper. SO once the whole world is flooded by these fake things, the US currency system will fail, NO?

Yep. Although, with current technology it would cost billions of dollars to make a handful of atoms of them. In the future this could change, making their supplies virtually unlimited. Not going to happen anytime soon though, besides by the time we have that much technology, things like mediums of exchange would probably be on the back burner.

 

[SSP]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
wait?

you mean i can't go to a jewler and buy $5000.00 worth of gold with my $5000.00??

so, what exactly did i lose out on?

Well, realistically, you would spend more then $5000 to buy $5000 worth of gold. The jeweler has to make his cut too.

 

[Spencer278]

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: Spencer278

Originally posted by: Dissipate
Everyone thinks this is about going back to the gold standard, it is not. Free tri-metalism is what is needed.

Text

What would be the effect of aritfically increasing the demand for copper, gold and silver on the economy when those metals are extremily important for every day uses. Isn't it a waste of copper to use it as money when it could be better used a wires or pipes?

Copper, silver and gold do not have fixed supplies. There are many gold mines that are mothballed because the price of gold is not high enough for them to make a profit. Once gold started to be used as currency its demand would go up and the mines would have more incentive to operate and expand the money supply. Once the supply went up, the price would stabilize and gold could still be used in industry.

Yeah but the price would increase. Why not use something complete worth less for money and ensure that it is articfially scares. Like look at copper it is every where, in cars, fans, power lines etc. An increases in price of copper would increase the price of every other item you purchase which will cause... supply side inflation which is the worses type of inflation.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: Spencer278

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: Spencer278

Originally posted by: Dissipate
Everyone thinks this is about going back to the gold standard, it is not. Free tri-metalism is what is needed.

Text

What would be the effect of aritfically increasing the demand for copper, gold and silver on the economy when those metals are extremily important for every day uses. Isn't it a waste of copper to use it as money when it could be better used a wires or pipes?

Copper, silver and gold do not have fixed supplies. There are many gold mines that are mothballed because the price of gold is not high enough for them to make a profit. Once gold started to be used as currency its demand would go up and the mines would have more incentive to operate and expand the money supply. Once the supply went up, the price would stabilize and gold could still be used in industry.

Yeah but the price would increase. Why not use something complete worth less for money and ensure that it is articfially scares. Like look at copper it is every where, in cars, fans, power lines etc. An increases in price of copper would increase the price of every other item you purchase which will cause... supply side inflation which is the worses type of inflation.

There are copper mines also, more copper mines would open up as well. When copper was used in the minting of pennies by the U.S. mint I don't recall a copper shortage, except during World War II.

When the demand for something increases its price may increase temporarily, but then after the price increase occurs the supply increases as well, then the price goes back down.

Under your theory, we still have the same copper supply as we have had for hundreds of years, under this theory copper would be extremely expensive indeed. But this is not the case, as the demand for copper increased more mines opened up. This is no different than what would happen if free tri-metalism was adopted and people started using copper coins. There would be no supply-side inflation or any inflation for the long term, the supply would match the demand which would create an equilibrium price.

 

[DaiShan]

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: z0mb13
do u know that we no longer use the gold standard?

also the money that the gov circulates is based on TRUST.

Whats the difference between tokens and notes? You can still spend tokens anywhere. Name me a place in the whole world that does not accept a US dollar.

Trust? Did you know that the government slowly changed the wordings on the currency from being redeemable on demand to simply being "legal tender"? It kept ALL the other features of the currency, the look the feel, and it simply took those words off. It continued to call them dollars, notes and money.

That is a severe violation of trust, so severe that there are people TODAY who still think they are really notes that can be redeemed.

It can be redeemed for gold. Take a few c-notes, go down to the jewelry store and buy you a fat gold chain. I'd much rather have US dollars than gold, I can trade dollars to get things I need, all I can do with gold is wear it (not that I'm opposed to that sort of thing )

 

[DaiShan]

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: z0mb13
oh ok, name me something that we cant do with today's money compared to the money before the goverment made the changes

Go to a bank or federal reserve bank and redeem it for dollars which at the time were weights of precious metals, gold and silver. 371.25 grains of silver or 27.0 grains of gold to be exact.

And providing that the United States currency system will not collapse in the near future, why would I want to redeem my money for gold?

Money is made of gold or silver. You would not redeem your money for gold, that is nonsensical. What you might want to do is redeem your Notes for gold. Why? To insure the government can't run the printing presses as much as it likes which it has been for some time now.

No no, you are bringing it down to a question of semantics now, read up for the websters dictionary definition of money, that is the accepted definition in this discussion, I'm not quite sure where the author of your book got his definition (made it up himself so that he could write a 300 page book on how the government is scamming us by not giving us "money"?) but his definition is significantly removed from the commonly accepted definition of the term.

 

[DaiShan]

Originally posted by: z0mb13

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: z0mb13
oh ok, name me something that we cant do with today's money compared to the money before the goverment made the changes

Go to a bank or federal reserve bank and redeem it for dollars which at the time were weights of precious metals, gold and silver. 371.25 grains of silver or 27.0 grains of gold to be exact.

And providing that the United States currency system will not collapse in the near future, why would I want to redeem my money for gold?

Money is made of gold or silver. You would not redeem your money for gold, that is nonsensical. What you might want to do is redeem your Notes for gold. Why? To insure the government can't run the printing presses as much as it likes which it has been for some time now.

WRONG..

money USED to be made of gold and silver. now it is all based on TRUST.

How do the FED increase money supply into the economy? The FED does this thing called open market operations. If the FED wants to increase money supply, they PURCHASE government bonds or T bills from the general public. And where does this money come from to purhcase the bonds? it comes out of thin air! it is all based on trust.

Exactly correct.

 

[Wag]

Lint.

 

[Rainsford]

This is interesting...it's complete gibberish, but it's interesting.

 

[z0mb13]

I will stop arguing with Dissipate

every time I read his post, I lose 10 iq points...