What's in YOUR wallet? (hint: it is not money) UPDATE: INTERVIEW WITH AUTHOR

[MercenaryForHire]

!) This belongs in P&N
2) Go take an Econ class and pull your head out of your ass
3) Stop posting

Thank you

- M4H

 

[z0mb13]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
!) This belongs in P&N
2) Go take an Econ class and pull your head out of your ass
3) Stop posting

Thank you

- M4H

:beer:

 

[XZeroII]

I stopped reading about 1/4 of the way down. The reason why no one believes you Dissipate is because they have all been brainwashed from young on to not question certain things, like money. Since we went off the gold standard, we have been in a death spiral of debt. It is impossible to get out. As someone mentioned earlier, the fed buys and sells gov't securities which are produced out of thin air. Why would they? They are just making something up, and pretending to buy and sell it so people don't realize that they are just printing money with no backing.
Money with no backing is worthless. Basically, they fed just prints up money as they please with no restrictions. This means that the money supply will always keep increasing, which means that the worth of a dollar will keep going down (it's an inverse relationship). If you take a one hundred dollar bill and put it in a safety deposit box for 100 years, do you think that $100 will buy you the same as it does now? Of course not. It will probably buy you a sitck of gum because that is the nature of a no backing money system. This is also known as an inflationary system. Your money is worth less every day that you have it and interest rates NEVER keep up with inflation, so you will have to keep working harder and harder to keep up. THIS is the problem with our current system and if you look back on the past 50 years, you will see that we have gone downhill, big time. Back in the 50's, one person could support an entire family with just one income. Try that now and you will not succeed.
As I said, our money is worthless. It is just little pieces of paper, and that's it.

 

[DaiShan]

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: z0mb13
oh ok, name me something that we cant do with today's money compared to the money before the goverment made the changes

Go to a bank or federal reserve bank and redeem it for dollars which at the time were weights of precious metals, gold and silver. 371.25 grains of silver or 27.0 grains of gold to be exact.

That was done nearly 100 years ago, and was and is widely publicised and easily discovered. It is not "hidden" and if you weren't taught that the US was off of the Gold Standard and off of the Silver Standard in your 9th grade US history class then your high school sucks. Your "revelations" are not news to anyone except someone who has had his head in the sand. As far as a bank tellar being mistaken, you do realise that bank tellars are _not_ by any stretch of the imagination financial professionals? Most of the time tellars either have no college degree or their degree is in the humanities and they have a job as a tellar because they just need the income.

ZV

If that's true why does the government still mis-label paper currency as being Notes and dollars? Why did it keep the same look and feel and merely remove a small number of words of the Notes? This is what is known as deception.

Wrong again. People had trust in the currency even during the gold standard. Most people did NOT cash in for gold. Why? Because they had faith in the US dollar. Part of this faith stems from a universally recognized representation of value (the dollar) If the government one day said "hey guys we are leaving the gold standard behind and instead we are all gonna use empty tea bags for money" then there would be a panick and devaluation of the currency because people don't have trust in tea bags as a legitimate measure of value.

 

[shazbot]

the amount of stupidity in this thread is truly amazing.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: XZeroII
I stopped reading about 1/4 of the way down. The reason why no one believes you Dissipate is because they have all been brainwashed from young on to not question certain things, like money. Since we went off the gold standard, we have been in a death spiral of debt. It is impossible to get out. As someone mentioned earlier, the fed buys and sells gov't securities which are produced out of thin air. Why would they? They are just making something up, and pretending to buy and sell it so people don't realize that they are just printing money with no backing.
Money with no backing is worthless. Basically, they fed just prints up money as they please with no restrictions. This means that the money supply will always keep increasing, which means that the worth of a dollar will keep going down (it's an inverse relationship). If you take a one hundred dollar bill and put it in a safety deposit box for 100 years, do you think that $100 will buy you the same as it does now? Of course not. It will probably buy you a sitck of gum because that is the nature of a no backing money system. This is also known as an inflationary system. Your money is worth less every day that you have it and interest rates NEVER keep up with inflation, so you will have to keep working harder and harder to keep up. THIS is the problem with our current system and if you look back on the past 50 years, you will see that we have gone downhill, big time. Back in the 50's, one person could support an entire family with just one income. Try that now and you will not succeed.
As I said, our money is worthless. It is just little pieces of paper, and that's it.

If that's all he's trying to say.. then all I have to say back is.. duh?

I thought everybody knew that there was no actual physical thing behind our money anymore.

 

[z0mb13]

Originally posted by: XZeroII
I stopped reading about 1/4 of the way down. The reason why no one believes you Dissipate is because they have all been brainwashed from young on to not question certain things, like money. Since we went off the gold standard, we have been in a death spiral of debt. It is impossible to get out. As someone mentioned earlier, the fed buys and sells gov't securities which are produced out of thin air. Why would they? They are just making something up, and pretending to buy and sell it so people don't realize that they are just printing money with no backing.
Money with no backing is worthless. Basically, they fed just prints up money as they please with no restrictions. This means that the money supply will always keep increasing, which means that the worth of a dollar will keep going down (it's an inverse relationship). If you take a one hundred dollar bill and put it in a safety deposit box for 100 years, do you think that $100 will buy you the same as it does now? Of course not. It will probably buy you a sitck of gum because that is the nature of a no backing money system. This is also known as an inflationary system. Your money is worth less every day that you have it and interest rates NEVER keep up with inflation, so you will have to keep working harder and harder to keep up. THIS is the problem with our current system and if you look back on the past 50 years, you will see that we have gone downhill, big time. Back in the 50's, one person could support an entire family with just one income. Try that now and you will not succeed.
As I said, our money is worthless. It is just little pieces of paper, and that's it.

hmm using the gold standard is also not hunk dory.
IIRC there was a crisis of gold back in the early 1900?? Read a ECon book and it will explain it nicely.
We got out of that crisis by ditching the gold standard. I am not saying that the current system is perfect, but it is BETTER than before. Also a nice point is that the movie Wizard of Oz is actually about the crisis. the movie characters portrays the major players at the time (the straw man is the farmers, gold road is the gold standard). The slippers were actually silver, to portray that silver was a good alternative to the gold standard, but holywood wants to show its new technicolor, so the slipper is changed to ruby.

Also the money supply DOES NOT keep increasing. The fed engages monetary policies, which is basically increasing or decreasing the money supply, and as a result of this interest rate fluctuates. Everything falls nicely in place. You should also take a look at a econ book. Moreover, the greenback is close to being the world's currency. Everyone in the world trusts the currency. Also there is this thing called the MULTIPLIER effect of the money base. A slightly increasing money supply is needed to support a growing economy.

As with inflation, this will still happen regardless whether we use a gold standard or not. The us gov is not dumb enough to print money like a mofo that will cause hyperinflation.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: XZeroII
I stopped reading about 1/4 of the way down. The reason why no one believes you Dissipate is because they have all been brainwashed from young on to not question certain things, like money. Since we went off the gold standard, we have been in a death spiral of debt. It is impossible to get out. As someone mentioned earlier, the fed buys and sells gov't securities which are produced out of thin air. Why would they? They are just making something up, and pretending to buy and sell it so people don't realize that they are just printing money with no backing.
Money with no backing is worthless. Basically, they fed just prints up money as they please with no restrictions. This means that the money supply will always keep increasing, which means that the worth of a dollar will keep going down (it's an inverse relationship). If you take a one hundred dollar bill and put it in a safety deposit box for 100 years, do you think that $100 will buy you the same as it does now? Of course not. It will probably buy you a sitck of gum because that is the nature of a no backing money system. This is also known as an inflationary system. Your money is worth less every day that you have it and interest rates NEVER keep up with inflation, so you will have to keep working harder and harder to keep up. THIS is the problem with our current system and if you look back on the past 50 years, you will see that we have gone downhill, big time. Back in the 50's, one person could support an entire family with just one income. Try that now and you will not succeed.
As I said, our money is worthless. It is just little pieces of paper, and that's it.

I don't think it's that people don't believe what Dissipate is shoveling - it's just that they don't believe he was dumb enough to blow $55 on something he could have learned in the first two weeks of a high school economy class.

- M4H

 

[shazbot]

the euros giving the dollar a run for its money.

 

[z0mb13]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: XZeroII
I stopped reading about 1/4 of the way down. The reason why no one believes you Dissipate is because they have all been brainwashed from young on to not question certain things, like money. Since we went off the gold standard, we have been in a death spiral of debt. It is impossible to get out. As someone mentioned earlier, the fed buys and sells gov't securities which are produced out of thin air. Why would they? They are just making something up, and pretending to buy and sell it so people don't realize that they are just printing money with no backing.
Money with no backing is worthless. Basically, they fed just prints up money as they please with no restrictions. This means that the money supply will always keep increasing, which means that the worth of a dollar will keep going down (it's an inverse relationship). If you take a one hundred dollar bill and put it in a safety deposit box for 100 years, do you think that $100 will buy you the same as it does now? Of course not. It will probably buy you a sitck of gum because that is the nature of a no backing money system. This is also known as an inflationary system. Your money is worth less every day that you have it and interest rates NEVER keep up with inflation, so you will have to keep working harder and harder to keep up. THIS is the problem with our current system and if you look back on the past 50 years, you will see that we have gone downhill, big time. Back in the 50's, one person could support an entire family with just one income. Try that now and you will not succeed.
As I said, our money is worthless. It is just little pieces of paper, and that's it.

I don't think it's that people don't believe what Dissipate is shoveling - it's just that they don't believe he was dumb enough to blow $55 on something he could have learned in the first two weeks of a high school economy class.

- M4H

IMO what Dissipate is shoveling is true, but it has no merit whatsoever to today's economy. Its a stupid alarmist theory..

 

[XZeroII]

Perhaps a quick overview of the history and PURPOSE of money will help clear things up. Back when commerce first started, we used a barter system. 4 chickens equaled 10lbs of rice, for example. If you wanted rice, you had to either have chickens or find someone with chickens in order to get your rice. In order to get those chickens (if you didn't already have them), you needed to trade something you already had for those chickens. This was extremely difficult for people. What happened was a single item, which had to be in limited supply, was decided to be a replacement for bartering. Instead of 4 chickens equaling 10lbs of rice, a chicken equaled 5 pig feathers, and a pound of rice equaled 2 pig feathers. Now people could trade these pig feathers around and get whatever they wanted. Some societies used pig feathers (which I made up), egyptions used bread for awhile, we used gold. The problem was that it got annoying carrying around 100 pig feathers in order to get your stuff. Pig feathers were bulky and could be damaged easily. So someone got the idea to hold onto people's pig feathers, and in exchange hand that person a note saying that that person could redeem their pig feathers at any time by returning the note. Well people found that it was easier to just trade these notes around with full confidence that they could get their pig feathers from this guy at any time they wanted.

This is the foundation of our current money system. Tell me what the problem with this is when you get rid of pig feathers.


EDIT: I should also mention that this story could go on farther to explain how banking works and such, but I chose to stop it there. If people really want, I can continue it.

 

[z0mb13]

Originally posted by: shazbot
the euros giving the dollar a run for its money.

and does the euro use a gold standard?? I dont think so

 

[Ronstang]

Have you or the moron who wrote the book ever picked up an Economics textbook? It is called fiat money....it doesn't have to have any more value than that perceived by the people willing to use it as a form of payment and wealth storage.

 

[XZeroII]

Originally posted by: z0mb13

Originally posted by: XZeroII
I stopped reading about 1/4 of the way down. The reason why no one believes you Dissipate is because they have all been brainwashed from young on to not question certain things, like money. Since we went off the gold standard, we have been in a death spiral of debt. It is impossible to get out. As someone mentioned earlier, the fed buys and sells gov't securities which are produced out of thin air. Why would they? They are just making something up, and pretending to buy and sell it so people don't realize that they are just printing money with no backing.
Money with no backing is worthless. Basically, they fed just prints up money as they please with no restrictions. This means that the money supply will always keep increasing, which means that the worth of a dollar will keep going down (it's an inverse relationship). If you take a one hundred dollar bill and put it in a safety deposit box for 100 years, do you think that $100 will buy you the same as it does now? Of course not. It will probably buy you a sitck of gum because that is the nature of a no backing money system. This is also known as an inflationary system. Your money is worth less every day that you have it and interest rates NEVER keep up with inflation, so you will have to keep working harder and harder to keep up. THIS is the problem with our current system and if you look back on the past 50 years, you will see that we have gone downhill, big time. Back in the 50's, one person could support an entire family with just one income. Try that now and you will not succeed.
As I said, our money is worthless. It is just little pieces of paper, and that's it.

hmm using the gold standard is also not hunk dory.
IIRC there was a crisis of gold back in the early 1900?? Read a ECon book and it will explain it nicely.
We got out of that crisis by ditching the gold standard. I am not saying that the current system is perfect, but it is BETTER than before. Also a nice point is that the movie Wizard of Oz is actually about the crisis. the movie characters portrays the major players at the time (the straw man is the farmers, gold road is the gold standard). The slippers were actually silver, to portray that silver was a good alternative to the gold standard, but holywood wants to show its new technicolor, so the slipper is changed to ruby.

Also the money supply DOES NOT keep increasing. The fed engages monetary policies, which is basically increasing or decreasing the money supply, and as a result of this interest rate fluctuates. Everything falls nicely in place. You should also take a look at a econ book. Moreover, the greenback is close to being the world's currency. Everyone in the world trusts the currency. Also there is this thing called the MULTIPLIER effect of the money base. A slightly increasing money supply is needed to support a growing economy.

As with inflation, this will still happen regardless whether we use a gold standard or not. The us gov is not dumb enough to print money like a mofo that will cause hyperinflation.

I've done the econ thing for a few semesters and understand what you are saying. But tell me this, if our gov't is doing such a good job, then why is pretty much everyone in this country (save a few) getting poorer every day? Read my example about the 50's compared to now. Why is this happening if our money is still just as valuable now as it was before?

 

[shazbot]

i n f l a t i o n.

are you stupid? or just slept through the class?

 

[XZeroII]

Originally posted by: shazbot
i n f l a t i o n.

are you stupid? or just slept through the class?

Are you talking to me? I would hope not since I COVERED THAT IN MY ORIGINAL POST as a major problem with our current monetary system.

 

[shazbot]

i'm going to have to go with you being stupid.

 

[TuxDave]

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: shazbot
i n f l a t i o n.

are you stupid? or just slept through the class?

Are you talking to me? I would hope not since I COVERED THAT IN MY ORIGINAL POST as a major problem with our current monetary system.

So... inflation is bad. Deflation is really bad. So if we had to choose, which one would we care to go for? And given that choice, what is the best plan of action?

 

[XZeroII]

Originally posted by: shazbot
i'm going to have to go with you being stupid.

You are entitled to your oppinion.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: shazbot
i n f l a t i o n.

are you stupid? or just slept through the class?

Are you talking to me? I would hope not since I COVERED THAT IN MY ORIGINAL POST as a major problem with our current monetary system.

I couldn't find the relevant part in your original post?

Finally, we're getting somewhere in this thread. Interesting stuff.

 

[XZeroII]

Originally posted by: TuxDave

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: shazbot
i n f l a t i o n.

are you stupid? or just slept through the class?

Are you talking to me? I would hope not since I COVERED THAT IN MY ORIGINAL POST as a major problem with our current monetary system.

So... inflation is bad. Deflation is really bad. So if we had to choose, which one would we care to go for? And given that choice, what is the best plan of action?

I"m sorry, but I am not an expert and have no solution

 

[z0mb13]

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: z0mb13

Originally posted by: XZeroII
I stopped reading about 1/4 of the way down. The reason why no one believes you Dissipate is because they have all been brainwashed from young on to not question certain things, like money. Since we went off the gold standard, we have been in a death spiral of debt. It is impossible to get out. As someone mentioned earlier, the fed buys and sells gov't securities which are produced out of thin air. Why would they? They are just making something up, and pretending to buy and sell it so people don't realize that they are just printing money with no backing.
Money with no backing is worthless. Basically, they fed just prints up money as they please with no restrictions. This means that the money supply will always keep increasing, which means that the worth of a dollar will keep going down (it's an inverse relationship). If you take a one hundred dollar bill and put it in a safety deposit box for 100 years, do you think that $100 will buy you the same as it does now? Of course not. It will probably buy you a sitck of gum because that is the nature of a no backing money system. This is also known as an inflationary system. Your money is worth less every day that you have it and interest rates NEVER keep up with inflation, so you will have to keep working harder and harder to keep up. THIS is the problem with our current system and if you look back on the past 50 years, you will see that we have gone downhill, big time. Back in the 50's, one person could support an entire family with just one income. Try that now and you will not succeed.
As I said, our money is worthless. It is just little pieces of paper, and that's it.

hmm using the gold standard is also not hunk dory.
IIRC there was a crisis of gold back in the early 1900?? Read a ECon book and it will explain it nicely.
We got out of that crisis by ditching the gold standard. I am not saying that the current system is perfect, but it is BETTER than before. Also a nice point is that the movie Wizard of Oz is actually about the crisis. the movie characters portrays the major players at the time (the straw man is the farmers, gold road is the gold standard). The slippers were actually silver, to portray that silver was a good alternative to the gold standard, but holywood wants to show its new technicolor, so the slipper is changed to ruby.

Also the money supply DOES NOT keep increasing. The fed engages monetary policies, which is basically increasing or decreasing the money supply, and as a result of this interest rate fluctuates. Everything falls nicely in place. You should also take a look at a econ book. Moreover, the greenback is close to being the world's currency. Everyone in the world trusts the currency. Also there is this thing called the MULTIPLIER effect of the money base. A slightly increasing money supply is needed to support a growing economy.

As with inflation, this will still happen regardless whether we use a gold standard or not. The us gov is not dumb enough to print money like a mofo that will cause hyperinflation.

I've done the econ thing for a few semesters and understand what you are saying. But tell me this, if our gov't is doing such a good job, then why is pretty much everyone in this country (save a few) getting poorer every day? Read my example about the 50's compared to now. Why is this happening if our money is still just as valuable now as it was before?

we would be in the same state anyways if we are still using the gold standard. The problem not lies in the currency, but on lots of different factors (population growth, etc). You can still support a whole family on a single income if you move out of the major populated areas.

 

[XZeroII]

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: shazbot
i n f l a t i o n.

are you stupid? or just slept through the class?

Are you talking to me? I would hope not since I COVERED THAT IN MY ORIGINAL POST as a major problem with our current monetary system.

I couldn't find the relevant part in your original post?

Finally, we're getting somewhere in this thread. Interesting stuff.

See, if shazbot had said that, I would have known that he couldn't find it.

I covered that in the second half of my post

Money with no backing is worthless. Basically, they fed just prints up money as they please with no restrictions. This means that the money supply will always keep increasing, which means that the worth of a dollar will keep going down (it's an inverse relationship). If you take a one hundred dollar bill and put it in a safety deposit box for 100 years, do you think that $100 will buy you the same as it does now? Of course not. It will probably buy you a sitck of gum because that is the nature of a no backing money system. This is also known as an inflationary system. Your money is worth less every day that you have it and interest rates NEVER keep up with inflation, so you will have to keep working harder and harder to keep up. THIS is the problem with our current system and if you look back on the past 50 years, you will see that we have gone downhill, big time. Back in the 50's, one person could support an entire family with just one income. Try that now and you will not succeed.
As I said, our money is worthless. It is just little pieces of paper, and that's it.

I'm sorry I can't be more specific or clear, but it seems to me that our current system is a losing one. People are having a harder and harder time making ends meet because the value of their money just keeps going down and down. It just happens so slow that people don't see it.

 

[shazbot]

uninformed opinions are the best!!!

 

[beer]

Originally posted by: XZeroII
I've done the econ thing for a few semesters and understand what you are saying. But tell me this, if our gov't is doing such a good job, then why is pretty much everyone in this country (save a few) getting poorer every day? Read my example about the 50's compared to now. Why is this happening if our money is still just as valuable now as it was before?

Do you really think people are getting poorer??? That is crazy.

Look in the 50s. Starvation was still a big problem in this country. Heath care systems didn't exist because major surgeries didn't get exist. What health care did exist was cash and carry type operations. People were lucky to own one car, most families now own at least two. Think of all the electronics you have now, in the 50s you had a radio and a black and white TV. Things like health insurnace, car insurance have spiraled up in cost, but things like food, like cars, like gas, really have become incredibly cheapear.

I don't really know how you can argue people had more money in the 50s, excluding inflation. I really think you need to talk to someone who grew up then....