What you get if the President won't read the daily security briefings

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kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
31,487
47,935
136
There was also agreement amongst all your government agencies that Iraq had lots of WMD, remember ?


Yikes, way to sink your whole argument in one sentence.

It either takes a complete zealot or a pathetically dishonest shill to hearken back to those days and give yellow cake from Niger, Curveball, Plamegate, etc all a complete pass. Office of Special Operations anyone?
 
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MooseNSquirrel

Platinum Member
Feb 26, 2009
2,587
318
126
I think we're done here.

Russia didn't invade Ukraine. The west supported a (violent) revolution that overthrew a democratically elected goverment in Kiev. Maybe you or the west didn't like that government, but it was the democratically elected goverment. I guess the word democracy has only meaning when you like the results.

The resulting civil war is just as much our responsibility as Russia's. If you can't see that, well, there's not much I can do. I'm not a Russia-lover, I don't like Putin. I got no personal stakes here. But I've watched the news, read background stories, kept up. And I don't follow the popular view in our own media.

And again, the Krim joining Russia is something that is supported by the vast majority of citizens in the Krim. As made obvious by the referendum that they held. Maybe you don't like referenda, unless the outcome is what you want. That seems to be the opinion of the western establishement. (My own government whent straight against two referenda we held here). It hardly matters if Russians had entered the Krim before the referendum. The Krim got what its people wanted.

Talking about Russia invading neighbors is pure bullshit.

And don't get me started on Syria. That's an even bigger false story set up by our own media to mask the fact that we in fact started a civil war there that cost 400k people their lives.

You sir, are comical.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-26248275

http://origins.osu.edu/article/ukrainian-crisis-russias-long-shadow

And my favorite: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31796226
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,057
55,551
136
I think we're done here.

Russia didn't invade Ukraine. The west supported a (violent) revolution that overthrew a democratically elected goverment in Kiev. Maybe you or the west didn't like that government, but it was the democratically elected goverment. I guess the word democracy has only meaning when you like the results.

I support the Ukrainians determining their own governance in whatever way they see fit. Your hypocrisy on this is pretty clear considering you said that the majority of people in Crimea wanting to be part of Russia was a justification for Russian invasion but apparently believe a majority of Ukrainians wanting to overthrow their government is not justification for a revolution.

I have a strong suspicion you have been reading a lot of propaganda.

The resulting civil war is just as much our responsibility as Russia's. If you can't see that, well, there's not much I can do. I'm not a Russia-lover, I don't like Putin. I got no personal stakes here. But I've watched the news, read background stories, kept up. And I don't follow the popular view in our own media.

Of course it's not our fault as much as Russia's. Russia invaded Ukraine, stole their land, and then not only armed groups in the east to perpetuate the civil war but directly intervened with their own troops.

If you're going to look at an issue it's important to put your own personal bias aside. Even if everything you claim about the west is true Russia is still VASTLY more to blame for the current circumstances.

And again, the Krim joining Russia is something that is supported by the vast majority of citizens in the Krim. As made obvious by the referendum that they held. Maybe you don't like referenda, unless the outcome is what you want. That seems to be the opinion of the western establishement. (My own government whent straight against two referenda we held here). It hardly matters if Russians had entered the Krim before the referendum. The Krim got what its people wanted.

As I said above it's interesting to see you view popular support as a justification for invasion but not for revolution. How convenient.

Oh and I suggest reading up on the Crimean 'referendum'. It was a total sham. Not only was it conducted under occupation, it literally didn't even have a choice for maintaining the status quo. Funny that you would say that people only like referenda if they get the outcome they want while defending a referendum that didn't even have that as an option. You've been duped.

Talking about Russia invading neighbors is pure bullshit.

Except of course it's happened repeatedly in the last decade. I have no idea why you would want to act as an apologist for Russian aggression.

And don't get me started on Syria. That's an even bigger false story set up by our own media to mask the fact that we in fact started a civil war there that cost 400k people their lives.

Trust me, with the amount of conspiracy theory batshittery and lack of even basic knowledge you've shown about Ukraine I have no desire to hear whatever Russian propaganda you're doing to let loose about Syria.
 

FIVR

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2016
3,753
911
106
You guys are just jealous that he reads so much and so good.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
39,489
33,026
136
I'm amazed at people making excuses for Trump not doing his job. Again the top secret report on Russia hacking has already been produced. Trump should have already read it.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
26,376
15,755
136
Just like the media managed to make half the US believe that Hussein was responsible for 911, right now the western media are trying to make us believe that Putin is responsible for the wars in Ukraine and Syria. While we (the west) did that.

I assume you get paid to peddle this kind of propaganda.
In detail, could you elaborate on key points that explains how the west is responsible for wars in ukraine, crimea?
Was russian spetsnaz not operating in Ukraine before and during the unrest in crimea and eastern ukraine? They got caught. Multiple times.
It is actually the same strategy that the good mr vladimir is employing, US, Ukraine, whereever.. Incite unrest, chaos and manipulate the fallout.
If he thought he could get away with it, he woulda done to you guys what he did/is doing to Ukraine .. He would arm and train the milita, light the fuse, stand back and watch, see what happens, - where can I gain.
He is a *brilliant* tactician and the US just voted an idiot for president. You are fucked.
 

Mai72

Lifer
Sep 12, 2012
11,562
1,742
126
Trump doesn't read period. He just goes with whatever he feels is correct.

I believe Nixon didn't read his security briefings as well. In Trump's case, I wouldn't be surprised if Pence is doing all of the dirty work for Trump.
 

Gryz

Golden Member
Aug 28, 2010
1,551
204
106
If it is obvious that it was the Russians hacked the DNC, where is the URL where I can read how they did it ? I know a bit about computers, even a bit about security. And I know quite a bit about networking. I'm sure that if there is evidence, I will be able to understand it. Again, where can I see it with my own eyes ?
As long as we can't see it, and have to "trust the intelligence", all claims are just as trustworthy as the bible. "Just have faith, everything that is written is true".

Note, I wasn't even saying I don't believe the Russians did the DNC hack. It's very likely they did. What I don't like is that now loads of unrelated problems in the US will be attributed to Russian hacks, true or not. And what I certainly don't like is how half the US now believes Trump won the election "because the Russians". If you wanna blame someone for Trump, blame Fox News and the alt-right news for the despicable way they portrayed Clinton over the last year. And blame your own FBI. What Comey did was unbelievable. And even more amazing is that he isn't in jail for it yet. I can't remember the old KGB pulling a stunt like that.

===

If you want to read about Syria, and how the US uses the strategy to fck up other countries for its own benefits, read this: http://www.politico.eu/article/why-...s-in-syria-mideast-conflict-oil-intervention/
But I guess you think the author of that article is also some misguided commie-lover.
 
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werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
I think we're done here.

Russia didn't invade Ukraine. The west supported a (violent) revolution that overthrew a democratically elected goverment in Kiev. Maybe you or the west didn't like that government, but it was the democratically elected goverment. I guess the word democracy has only meaning when you like the results.

The resulting civil war is just as much our responsibility as Russia's. If you can't see that, well, there's not much I can do. I'm not a Russia-lover, I don't like Putin. I got no personal stakes here. But I've watched the news, read background stories, kept up. And I don't follow the popular view in our own media.

And again, the Krim joining Russia is something that is supported by the vast majority of citizens in the Krim. As made obvious by the referendum that they held. Maybe you don't like referenda, unless the outcome is what you want. That seems to be the opinion of the western establishement. (My own government whent straight against two referenda we held here). It hardly matters if Russians had entered the Krim before the referendum. The Krim got what its people wanted.

Talking about Russia invading neighbors is pure bullshit.

And don't get me started on Syria. That's an even bigger false story set up by our own media to mask the fact that we in fact started a civil war there that cost 400k people their lives.
lol Wait, Russia didn't invade Ukraine? So I suppose Crimea was simply Ukraine's gift to Russia for not invading?
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Yikes, way to sink your whole argument in one sentence.

It either takes a complete zealot or a pathetically dishonest shill to hearken back to those days and give yellow cake from Niger, Curveball, Plamegate, etc all a complete pass. Office of Special Operations anyone?
Bush should never have mentioned the yellowcake deal. We knew that was a French plant before it even went public. Iraq had over five hundred tons of yellowcake; they needed more and better ways to enrich it to bomb grade, not more yellowcake itself. By using that story with his "the British have learned" disclaimor, he undermined his whole case. Same thing (to a lesser degree) with Curveball. Dude faces death by torture if he returns to Iraq; it doesn't take an intelligence expert to understand that he's highly motivated to say that not only is Hussein is the Devil but also a direct threat to us.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Trump doesn't read period. He just goes with whatever he feels is correct.

I believe Nixon didn't read his security briefings as well. In Trump's case, I wouldn't be surprised if Pence is doing all of the dirty work for Trump.
Nixon not only read his, he insisted that they be strictly limited to a very few people.

Trump ought to take up the Obama model - never meet with them and just have the report sent via email, so you can choose to read it or not as you wish without anyone being the wiser.
 

Mai72

Lifer
Sep 12, 2012
11,562
1,742
126
Nixon not only read his, he insisted that they be strictly limited to a very few people.

Trump ought to take up the Obama model - never meet with them and just have the report sent via email, so you can choose to read it or not as you wish without anyone being the wiser.

Thanks for the correction. I could have sworn that I read somewhere that Nixon didn't read his security briefings.

It's going to be an interesting 4 years for sure. Trump should read his security briefings, but as I've already said the guy doesn't read. So, I doubt he's going to read much if anything that crosses his desk. Which is scary.

I know Trump has published a few books over the years. The "Art of the Deal" was a bestseller. He probably had someone write it for him.
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,492
3,163
136
If Trump won't do it (the briefings), then I guess we'll have to get our warnings from Fox News, or your grumpy grandpa.
On the other hand....
Obama got his briefings on a daily basis, we assume, and look where that got us....
A hacked election after the fact.
SO I guess it all depends, or doesn't really matter.
Besides, in 20 days the security guys will get THEIR inside security info from 3am Donald Trump tweets.
So why should Trump need to hear an echo of what he had already started?
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
39,489
33,026
136
That's the other end of the spectrum. We should be careful with partial information that is presented to us.
Not a full state of war. But during the last 3 years the tone of western news about Russia has completely changed. Nobody can not have noticed that. Three years ago we were all having a party in Sochi. And suddenly "Putin is the new Hitler". (Yeah, I know, I am exaggerating). Just like the media managed to make half the US believe that Hussein was responsible for 911, right now the western media are trying to make us believe that Putin is responsible for the wars in Ukraine and Syria. While we (the west) did that.

You are correct on this...
Another point to think about. The US has been against secure computer systems. Against encrypting everything. They even actively tried to sabotage standarization efforts for strong encryption technology

You are dead wrong on the former. VP Cheney and Fox News pushed the Saddam/911 link which was a complete lie that help get us into war. It laid the ground work for an MO of the right, just keep saying shit over and over until enough people believe it.

As for the flip my entire life the meme has been Soviets/Russia have been the enemy and now Trump and some Republicans are now saying nothing to see here we can make nice with them. Did you know Reagan who is the God of Republicans made his living opposing the Soviets.

PS (Mods - I tried to say D-i-c-k Cheney and the software edited it to ****)
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
39,489
33,026
136
You want to inform Trump, you speak to the senior staff. That's their job. To manage the details.
You thinking that's a big deal is adorable.
"Bin Laden Determined To Attack The United States". Yeah nothing happened when that PDB was ignored. /S in case you didn't realize
 

MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
9,435
8,839
136
He has addressed the fact he doesn't receive daily briefings. Apparently most days, they are a repeat of the previous days briefing and he has instructed them (who ever does the briefing) that he only needs to be brief when something new is in the brief
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
26,067
24,397
136
Nixon not only read his, he insisted that they be strictly limited to a very few people.

Trump ought to take up the Obama model - never meet with them and just have the report sent via email, so you can choose to read it or not as you wish without anyone being the wiser.

Never meet with them? Obama went to 41% of the daily briefings as president and ingested the rest via his preferred medium - digitally on an iPad. As president-elect he went to all of them from what I've read.

And in regards to Nixon, it's not known whether he read them at all actually.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
26,067
24,397
136
He has addressed the fact he doesn't receive daily briefings. Apparently most days, they are a repeat of the previous days briefing and he has instructed them (who ever does the briefing) that he only needs to be brief when something new is in the brief

in the WaPo article I linked in the thread about the history of the daily briefing for the president at least one president said hearing a similar report as the previous with only slight changes was illuminating because it showed nuances.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
73,115
34,421
136
in the WaPo article I linked in the thread about the history of the daily briefing for the president at least one president said hearing a similar report as the previous with only slight changes was illuminating because it showed nuances.
This is Trump we're discussing. Nuance is what you get when your uncles re-marry.
 

TeeJay1952

Golden Member
May 28, 2004
1,532
191
106
I don't hold it against him. I refuse to read stories about him and prefer to ignore the whole situation.