What would happen financially if the US went to war with China?

[PieIsAwesome]

I think I'm being pretty impartial here honestly. Militarily, China is no match for the United States.

A good reminder is what happened Iraq's conventional forces. They were no joke and they got steamrolled. Battle of 73 Easting comes to mind where 36 M1A1s squashed two Iraq brigades all on their own.

Don't see what the Chinese could do to defend their infrastructure against air and missile strikes. Factories, ports, power plants, bridges, roads, everything is vulnerable. U.S. infrastructure, on the other hand, is untouchable.

They are outclassed in both the air and sea. Their advantage is their large ground forces, which may or may not matter depending on how far the U.S. would want to go.

 

[sandorski]

I think I'm being pretty impartial here honestly. Militarily, China is no match for the United States.

They easily outnumber the US. On neutral ground the US could win, but in China the US has a huge disadvantage.

 

[sandorski]

A good reminder is what happened Iraq's conventional forces. They were no joke and they got steamrolled. Battle of 73 Easting comes to mind where 36 M1A1s squashed two Iraq brigades all on their own.

Don't see what the Chinese could do to defend their infrastructure against air and missile strikes. Factories, ports, power plants, bridges, roads, everything is vulnerable. U.S. infrastructure, on the other hand, is untouchable.

They are outclassed in both the air and sea. Their advantage is their large ground forces, which may or may not matter depending on how far the U.S. would want to go.

China is orders of magnitude greater than Iraq.

 

[Pocatello]

One thing we should not forget. There are a lot of Chinese nationals abroad. How many of them are agents? How many of them are working in sensitive areas? They can wrecked our computer networks which control everything in this country and our allies. Our power plants dead, financial sector dead, general commerce dead.

 

[Newbian]

One thing we should not forget. There are a lot of Chinese nationals abroad. How many of them are agents? How many of them are working in sensitive areas? They can wrecked our computer networks which control everything in this country and our allies. Our power plants dead, financial sector dead, general commerce dead.

Maybe we could have camps of some kind to place them all in as I guess it worked great the last time.

 

[Pocatello]

Maybe we could have camps of some kind to place them all in as I guess it worked great the last time.

Last time I checked, the U.S won World War II for being as nasty. We firebombed entire cities, and dropped a couple of atomic bombs on civilian targets. Now we are not going to do those things anymore, and why we will never go to war with China. We can do a lot of damage, so can the Chinese. The Chinese are smart, they know fighting a conventional war with the U.S is foolish. They are going to wage asymmetrical warfare, target our most vulnerable targets, shoot down our satellites, etc.

 

[bshole]

Ok heres how it goes down. North Korea invades South Korea. America responds with massive conventional force. China gets involved when America crosses into North Korea territory. China launches nuclear device which wipes out the conventional American forces in Korea (wiping out several trillion dollars of hardware and hundreds of thousands of American soldiers). America unleashes its nuclear arsenal wiping out China's major cities, China retaliates by nuking New York, LA, Chicago and Washington. Too many nukes were unleased and nuclear winter ensues wiping out all humanity and all life except single-celled organisms. It is a restart for the world.

 

[qwchrbichn]

China's main problem is logistics and energy. To become a true economic powerhouse (as opposed the the paper powerhouse they are right now), China is going to require amounts of energy so vast as to make the US's consumption pale in comparison. Currently they just don't have the capacity and won't for decades, therefore they'll continue GDP number-fudging and international labor market manipulation for awhile. They know that they're outmatched militarily and their nuclear arsenal is not as large or sophisticated. Besides, MAD applies there.

Getting involved in a land war may be pointless, but it is also unnecessary because of their isolation from energy resources and the inferiority of their air and naval power at this time. Because of their market reforms and their integration into the global economy (read: producing goods for US consumption), a war with their their greatest source of income and with a nation with whom they've invested so much (treasuries) would destroy their economy and drastically reduce their access to food and energy.

China is completely aware of all of this, so rest assured that any bellicosity is just posturing.

Cyber attacks on U.S. and global financial markets and manipulation of U.S. markets is what you'll see for the near and mid-term. Tech advances may increase their effectiveness in terms of attacking satellites, but they still lack the resources and logistical capability to project their power. And starting anything would weaken them considerably more than any limited conventional engagement.

 

[AnitaPeterson]

An interesting discussion, to be sure, and many salient points were made, save for one (which was only brushed upon on page 5): very few people seem to be paying attention to the amount of Chinese people on the North American continent.

Basically, it's impossible to throw a stone into the engineering department at any major university without hitting an Asian (Chinese or Indian) person.

I am willing to bet that there are many, many Chinese people in the research fields, and that they make up a large part of the defence industry (along with other branches of the economy).

You can't put them all in camps (like someone else noticed, it didn't really work out with the Japanese, and they were fewer by several degrees of magnitude to begin with).

The U.S. spy services would be bogged down if they tried to keep every Chinese national under surveillance. I don't even think they have sufficient third-party Mandarin/Cantonese speakers.

Of course, the question of "patriotism" will come heavily into play. Would someone who is ethnically Chinese, but was born in North America ultimately give their allegiance to their country of birth, or to the culture of origin?

I think that, under the hypothetical scenario raised by the OP, these issues would become so urgent, that they would actually overshadow any outright military action. Paranoia and witch hunts "at home" could reach massive proportions...

 

[werepossum]

It depends. For the most part the United States has lost every war it has foisted upon its opponents. Our military is a paper tiger filled with decaying warfare in hangars, garages, and bunkers. Our soldiers are civilized human beings which comes with a plethora emotional disorders. You never hear gooks crying about PTSD, lost limbs, healthcare for example.

If war with China was a war of economy and technology than it would be a easy rout. But if required single flesh and blood soldier on the ground than I be worried.

What war has the US ever lost? Only one that springs to my mind is Vietnam, and as they have also beaten China at least twice I'm not sure that has any important ramifications. (Except to those contemplating an invasion of Vietnam.)

 

[PieIsAwesome]

China is orders of magnitude greater than Iraq.

Yeah, that's why the got bitch-slapped by Vietnam a couple of times.

 

[PieIsAwesome]

An interesting discussion, to be sure, and many salient points were made, save for one (which was only brushed upon on page 5): very few people seem to be paying attention to the amount of Chinese people on the North American continent.

Basically, it's impossible to throw a stone into the engineering department at any major university without hitting an Asian (Chinese or Indian) person.

I am willing to bet that there are many, many Chinese people in the research fields, and that they make up a large part of the defence industry (along with other branches of the economy).

You can't put them all in camps (like someone else noticed, it didn't really work out with the Japanese, and they were fewer by several degrees of magnitude to begin with).

The U.S. spy services would be bogged down if they tried to keep every Chinese national under surveillance. I don't even think they have sufficient third-party Mandarin/Cantonese speakers.

Of course, the question of "patriotism" will come heavily into play. Would someone who is ethnically Chinese, but was born in North America ultimately give their allegiance to their country of birth, or to the culture of origin?

I think that, under the hypothetical scenario raised by the OP, these issues would become so urgent, that they would actually overshadow any outright military action. Paranoia and witch hunts "at home" could reach massive proportions...

I don't think the vast majority of those Chinese immigrants and descendants have any love for the commies. More like resentment.

 

[bshole]

Yeah, that's why the got bitch-slapped by Vietnam a couple of times.

China has a GNP just slightly smaller than ours. They will surpass us in the next decade. If the trend continues they could double ours in two. They aren't gonna be bitch-slapped by ANYBODY again.... they will be on the delivering end.

 

[Newbian]

Ok heres how it goes down. North Korea invades South Korea. America responds with massive conventional force. China gets involved when America crosses into North Korea territory. China launches nuclear device which wipes out the conventional American forces in Korea (wiping out several trillion dollars of hardware and hundreds of thousands of American soldiers). America unleashes its nuclear arsenal wiping out China's major cities, China retaliates by nuking New York, LA, Chicago and Washington. Too many nukes were unleased and nuclear winter ensues wiping out all humanity and all life except single-celled organisms. It is a restart for the world.

If that means I never have to read stupid posts like this it might be worth it.

 

[Newbian]

I don't think the vast majority of those Chinese immigrants and descendants have any love for the commies. More like resentment.

There is a reason they escape to other countries much like japanese people or jews did before ww2.

 

[werepossum]

China has a GNP just slightly smaller than ours. They will surpass us in the next decade. If the trend continues they could double ours in two. They aren't gonna be bitch-slapped by ANYBODY again.... they will be on the delivering end.

Both the USA and China were vastly larger and more powerful than Vietnam when bitch-slapped. Ditto with Israel and the entire Middle Eastern Muslim world. Sometimes it really is the size of the fight in the dog and not the size of the dog in the fight.

Also, the USA was totally outclassed by the Japanese Navy and Air Force at the start of World War II, yet we began beating them far before we reached parity. War is infinitely more complicated that just raw power.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I suspect the US Navy could annihilate the Chinese fleet in no time using Tomahawks and Mk 48 Mod 7 torpedoes.

 

[JEDI]

An interesting discussion, to be sure, and many salient points were made, save for one (which was only brushed upon on page 5): very few people seem to be paying attention to the amount of Chinese people on the North American continent.

Basically, it's impossible to throw a stone into the engineering department at any major university without hitting an Asian (Chinese or Indian) person.

I am willing to bet that there are many, many Chinese people in the research fields, and that they make up a large part of the defence industry (along with other branches of the economy).

You can't put them all in camps (like someone else noticed, it didn't really work out with the Japanese, and they were fewer by several degrees of magnitude to begin with).

The U.S. spy services would be bogged down if they tried to keep every Chinese national under surveillance. I don't even think they have sufficient third-party Mandarin/Cantonese speakers.

Of course, the question of "patriotism" will come heavily into play. Would someone who is ethnically Chinese, but was born in North America ultimately give their allegiance to their country of birth, or to the culture of origin?

I think that, under the hypothetical scenario raised by the OP, these issues would become so urgent, that they would actually overshadow any outright military action. Paranoia and witch hunts "at home" could reach massive proportions...

how did the supreme court justify japsanese in interment camps during WWII??

 

[Svnla]

Yeah, that's why the got bitch-slapped by Vietnam a couple of times.

More than a few times.

1979 = ten of thousands PLA soldiers lay dead at the border by the hands of women and old men of the local militia forces because the main VN military force was busy in Cambodia.

1788 = Emperor Nguyen Hue slaughtered over 200,000 Quing soldiers in less than 1 week during the Lunar New Year.

1427 = Emperor Le Loi slaughtered over 300,000 Ming soldiers.

1257, 1284, 1288 = Comander Tran Hung Dao slaughtered between 300 to 500,000 Yuan soldiers. Vietnam was the only country that defeated the fearsome Mongols three times.

938 = Vietnam kicked Chinese invaders out of the country forever.


<<---- knows a few things about Asian history.

China has a GNP just slightly smaller than ours. They will surpass us in the next decade. If the trend continues they could double ours in two. They aren't gonna be bitch-slapped by ANYBODY again.... they will be on the delivering end.

Oh really?

http://www.businessinsider.com/russias-coast-guard-shoots-at-and-detains-36-chinese-fisherman-2012-7 (no threat of war or getting even as china did with Japanese and Philippines Coast Guard for similar incidents).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Aigun (not a word from china and chinese about "historic evidences" or "undisputable territories" and other bull craps as they are doing to other smaller neighbors).

Both the USA and China were vastly larger and more powerful than Vietnam when bitch-slapped. Ditto with Israel and the entire Middle Eastern Muslim world. Sometimes it really is the size of the fight in the dog and not the size of the dog in the fight.

Also, the USA was totally outclassed by the Japanese Navy and Air Force at the start of World War II, yet we began beating them far before we reached parity. War is infinitely more complicated that just raw power.

Yup. It is not about how shiny your weapons are but if you are willing to use them effectively and willing to die to so if necessary.

From my reading and research, US military power in the Pacific was much lower than Japan during the late 1930s to early 1940s . Our ships were not as modern, our fighters/bombers were not as fast or powerful, our bombs and torpedoes were not as accurate or powerful as Japanese weapons and so on.