what would be the best way to eliminate isis/al queda

[Thanatosis]

How about we copy the policy of nations that seem to have the fewest problems with Al-Qaeda and ISIS terrorism? China doesn't have this issue. Japan doesn't. Finland, as far as I know, doesn't have this issue. What is in common with these nations?

They don't invade the middle east. They don't aid Israel. They don't drone strike people who disagree with their ideology.



Do those things and you'll have no problem with ISIS or Al-Qaeda. The worst thing we can possibly do is copy the same PNAC neocon BS that was peddled by Cheney and Rumsfeld back in 2002 and 2003. They thought we needed to be "more involved" too.

 

[Blanky]

ISIS is just a rose by any other name. Inherent to islam is an intense violence; muslims have been waging war in the prophet's name for one and a half millennia. When you remove isis, if you still have large muslim populations you still have the sectarian violence and hatred.

 

[Blanky]

How about we copy the policy of nations that seem to have the fewest problems with Al-Qaeda and ISIS terrorism? China doesn't have this issue. Japan doesn't. Finland, as far as I know, doesn't have this issue. What is in common with these nations?

They don't invade the middle east. They don't aid Israel. They don't drone strike people who disagree with their ideology.



Do those things and you'll have no problem with ISIS or Al-Qaeda. The worst thing we can possibly do is copy the same PNAC neocon BS that was peddled by Cheney and Rumsfeld back in 2002 and 2003. They thought we needed to be "more involved" too.

Uh, you forgot something. You know what else is common? Their national religions are not islam.

As far as we are selfishly concerned in the west I absolutely agree with you that poking a hornet's nest is directly responsible for what we've been seeing. That's why we should uniformly pull out. It will help us. Those nations will still be engulfed in violence endemic to islam, but it won't be our problem anymore.

 

[Aegeon]

How about we copy the policy of nations that seem to have the fewest problems with Al-Qaeda and ISIS terrorism? China doesn't have this issue.

This is fairly misleading as China does have problems with Uyghur terrorist attacks in the country.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Kunming_attack
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Kashgar_attacks

Now we could get into a discussion of the differences between the various groups, and its true that China's policies in Xinjiang and its treatment of minority groups clearly have contributed towards creating the motivation for various individuals engaging in these attacks, but claiming China doesn't have any issues in general is certainly misleading.

Now there are separate questions of exactly what our policies should be towards various middle eastern countries, but I certainly don't see leaving ISIS alone and with a stable safe base to plan and train for terrorist attacks as a good idea. (Not to mention the moral question of what ISIS ends up doing to various groups under their "rule".)

 

[theeedude]

that would just destabilize the region even further though. Saudi Arabia is ripe to go fucking ballistic if power ever changes hands.

Saudi oil money is what's paying for radical mosques that spread Wahabbism.

 

[Jaskalas]

what would be the best way to eliminate isis/al queda

Stop condemning local governments when they have to kill the terrorists - aka win.

 

[soulcougher73]

Deport all muslims back to the middle east. secure the border so they cant leave and tell them to have it out. if the radicals win then we can kill whats left. or something like that lol

 

[echo4747]

the best way is to eliminate ISIS/Al Queda is to infiltrate them. As many have said ISIS is growing in size. In order to do that ... they need to add supporters. We need to plant people to provide us info and intelligence . Education,economic hardship , and bombing them also help to some extent.
-everything possible needs to be done to hasten their demise

 

[Thanatosis]

Uh, you forgot something. You know what else is common? Their national religions are not islam.

As far as we are selfishly concerned in the west I absolutely agree with you that poking a hornet's nest is directly responsible for what we've been seeing. That's why we should uniformly pull out. It will help us. Those nations will still be engulfed in violence endemic to islam, but it won't be our problem anymore.

I'm not saying you have to like or even respect their religion or culture, my point is to avoid, specifically, Al-Qaeda and ISIS terrorism all we have to do his leave them to kill each other alone. Russia will surely take their own revenge and so will France. What do we gain by sticking our collective dicks into this crockpot? Besides the guarantee of more terrorism in the US.

 

[cytg111]

education

this.

 

[woolfe9998]

I'm not saying you have to like or even respect their religion or culture, my point is to avoid, specifically, Al-Qaeda and ISIS terrorism all we have to do his leave them to kill each other alone. Russia will surely take their own revenge and so will France. What do we gain by sticking our collective dicks into this crockpot? Besides the guarantee of more terrorism in the US.

Sure, not our business to "stick our collective dicks" into the situation when our ally is attacked. This is why I am unsympathetic to isolationism.

 

[brianmanahan]

I used to believe this as well. It plays a part. But when looking at a lot of these people running these organizations or carrying out some of these attacks. The people are educated and usually not poor. It is an interesting situation with these radical ideologies. The national socialists were first backed by doctors, men of industry, then the avg German followed along.

OBL was the son of a billionaire and was worth tens of millions. Creating jobs wont stop people like him.

the problem is that when only a very few are educated or wealthy, people looks up to the ones who are and they can hold a lot more power.

also when people are living in desperate situations they are more willing to do desperate things.

i think that if most people in the middle east had a good education, a decent job and hope for a better future, then even charismatic rich dudes like osama who ask them to blow themselves up wouldn't be too successful.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Education. Jobs. Some degree of prosperity.

When your culture is irrational--such as the Muslim religion--you don't get those sorts of things. Your religious values have economic consequences. There's a reason why those nations have great poverty and little freedom.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Take the gloves off.

1. If a mud hut community has ever sheltered and helped an Isis, Taliban, or Al Quida hood rat then that community gets bombed until it's a giant crater.
2. Summarily execute all terrorist and those with terroristic ties held in captivity on American soil/American bases.
3. Arm soilders with pig blood ammunition and make sure this information is broadcast in the sand box so that they know we are using these bullets to shoot them with.

None of this will ever happen because our government is too concerned with being PC rather than correcting this mess. So attacks will keep happening and we will keep asking how we stop it...

Yeah, if we really wanted to eradicate them, we could do it. As a practical matter, it would probably mean genocide for tens of millions of Muslims via collateral damage.

What if we set up a policy where any Muslim killed was to have his body laid into a collective grave pit of pig blood and pig feces? I always thought a proper 9/11 memorial would be to take the bones of all Islamacists killed and make a great big pile out of them with a big placard in front reading, "Anybody else want some?"

Americans are too politically correct and fat and soft to do anything like that, but I could see nations like Russia and China doing something like that if they viewed Islam as an existential threat. That's why I suggested (in jest, of course) that we conduct undercover black flag attacks in Russia, China, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Iran.

 

[shady28]

i don't think sending in troops to kill all the sunni muslims is a good idea. they'll just grow back

they need their own sunni government free of iranian influence maybe? maybe find a kinder, gentler saddam hussein?

Look to what Russia did to Chechnya for your answer. Chechnya was an Islamic Caliphate.

It boils down to this.

1 - Stop using smart bombs and start carpet bombing/shelling indiscriminately, destroy all the modern infrastructure and access to resources..

2 - Surround and blockade the region, don't let anyone help them.

3 - Wait about 3-4 years, repeating #1 as much as needed.

4 - Walk in and re-educate / rebuild what's left.

What I bolded is over the top.

Perknose
Forum Director

 

[WhipperSnapper]

1 - Stop using smart bombs and start carpet bombing/shelling indiscriminately, destroy all the modern infrastructure and access to resources..

What about biological warfare? Ebola? Plague? I've also wondered if there might be some sort of a way to put a birth control agent or something that causes sterilization in the water.

Your clarification in a later post that you advocate this wholesale against civilian populations is simply beyond the pale.

Perknose
Forum Director

 

[Thanatosis]

Sure, not our business to "stick our collective dicks" into the situation when our ally is attacked. This is why I am unsympathetic to isolationism.

I admire your sentiment, but that doesn't answer my question. What does america gain from involving itself in this besides increasing the terror threat domestically?


Arguably one could say we are elevating democracy and increasing our geopolitical standing, but is that worth more civilian lives? Would say it was worth it if somebody in your family was killed in an attack that wouldn't have happened had we avoided involvement?

It can't be argued that it would make us safer as a country, nor would it make us any richer as a country. The war will 100% result in more animosity towards the US and ISIS has demonstrated that they make good on their threats. As of yet, we aren't their main target. It will also cost anywhere from 50 billion to a few trillion dollars like Iraq and Afghanistan have cost us because we will be the ones who will rebuild the country.


It's a terrible idea.

 

[shady28]

Everyone ignores the 800lb gorilla in the corner on this question.

The root problem here is actually Saudi Arabia and the petrodollar arrangement.

 

[ivwshane]

What do you do with an entity whose goal is to start a war with the world?

Do you have that war? Or do you ignore it and live with it?

For some reason this issue reminds me of the South Park episode with randy starting fights at little league games.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HwaroatABu4

 

[Whiskey16]

Ultimately this:

Education. Jobs. Some degree of prosperity.

Yet first the stability and a sense of justice and representation by the government at hand.

With only the living practice of futility and injustice, in any population, radical extremism will spawn. How was such a point reached for the actors of ISIS?

The genesis, command, and structure of ISIS is solely a result of the Iraq power vacuum created by the illegal and incompetent US invasion and restructuring of Iraq:

• From the knee-jerk disbandment of the Iraq army...
• .. through to the US backed Iraqi government coup of denying power to the elected president in favour of the continuation of a Shia led government that maintained the derision, marginalisation and persecution of Sunnis.
• Much of the ISIS leadership came from the disbanded Iraq army, rose up against US occupying forces, were incarcerated and abused by that illegally invading foreign power, and on multiple occasions rebelled against the US backed Shia government that repeatedly and to this day maintained a marginalising persecution agenda against Sunnis....
• When backed into a corner, many moderate Sunnis chose the likes of ISIS as its genesis was conditioned by US led abuse, and also found a anarchy free reign and cause in the neighbouring civil war of Syria...
• As a last resort saviour against the genocidal Assad regime and sectarian bent derision of the Iraqi government, some Sunni populations chose a devil as their saviour... An error, and many are now stuck and even further persecuted as a result.

The crux also comes down to a long list of inexcusable errors that have compounded the severity of every scenario, and certainly no simple solution and no clean solution, other than a vow to have truly learn from history and never again repeat the criminal asinine act of a war of destabilising aggression against a state such as Iraq.

In practice (as the current missions) siding with the far more destructive and deadly Assad regime (in only a few ears, astronomically higher deaths against civilians than the limited Islamic State) or fight both fronts including what could be shots with Russian forces who truly have thrown their lot with the genocidal megalomaniac of Assad.

 

[Whiskey16]

ISIS is just a rose by any other name. Inherent to islam is an intense violence; muslims have been waging war in the prophet's name for one and a half millennia. When you remove isis, if you still have large muslim populations you still have the sectarian violence and hatred.

Full on generalised hate speech to enable the commission of high crimes.

....A path to yet another vile final solution....

 

[Whiskey16]

Deport all muslims back to the middle east. secure the border so they cant leave and tell them to have it out. if the radicals win then we can kill whats left. or something like that lol

Full on generalised hate speech to enable the commission of high crimes.

....A path to targeting yet another group to face a vile final solution....

An abuse of this forum to perpetrate a racist and hateful agenda.


Not too many decades ago such a vile fearing and marginalising view was also held against Jews, with even a Canadian government positon of "one is too many...." Such has been a public state against Irish, Italians, Romanians, Germans, Chinese, Japanese, etc.... The core of such western xenophobic movements is of insularly provincial white men who know little nor care to learn beyond what for they perceive to know.

 

[Whiskey16]

What if we set up a policy where any Muslim killed was to have his body laid into a collective grave pit of pig blood and pig feces?

Full on generalised hate speech to enable the commission of crimes and delegitimise the humanity of a targeted group..

....A path to yet another vile final solution....

 

[Whiskey16]

What about biological warfare? Ebola? Plague? I've also wondered if there might be some sort of a way to put a birth control agent or something that causes sterilization in the water.

Full on generalised hate speech to enable the commission of high crimes.

....A path to yet another vile final solution....

Yet another abuse of the privilege to post by using this forum to incite hatred and the commission terrorising crimes against a targeted group -- explicitly again, Muslims.

The crime of "genocide" defined in internation law

"Article II: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: ​

(a) Killing members of the group;

(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
​

It is highly doubtful that there are any ISIS sympathisers let alone members at AnandTech, yet there are certainly equal opposites in their expressions of hate and murderous terror. We can and should directly confront our own radicalised extremists.

All of you, don't stand idly by, be as motivated as if one presented ISIS propaganda, loudly condemn the criminal and terrorising bullshit typed out by the likes of WhipperSnapper and many other fellow AnandTech members. Zero tolerance. Such agendas and personalities are not welcome by a shared community and should be soundly ostracized.

 

[CitizenKain]

All of you, don't stand idly by, be as motivated as if one presented ISIS propaganda, loudly condemn the criminal and terrorising bullshit typed out by the likes of WhipperSnapper and many other fellow AnandTech members. Zero tolerance. Such agendas and personalities are not welcome by a shared community and should be soundly ostracized.

I don't know if you've noticed, but AT is pretty much sliding into Stormfront territory. I mean, look at this dumb motherfucker:

Take the gloves off.

1. If a mud hut community has ever sheltered and helped an Isis, Taliban, or Al Quida hood rat then that community gets bombed until it's a giant crater.
2. Summarily execute all terrorist and those with terroristic ties held in captivity on American soil/American bases.
3. Arm soilders with pig blood ammunition and make sure this information is broadcast in the sand box so that they know we are using these bullets to shoot them with.

None of this will ever happen because our government is too concerned with being PC rather than correcting this mess. So attacks will keep happening and we will keep asking how we stop it...

This is someone who believes that Muslims are like werewolves, but with pigs.