what would be the best way to eliminate isis/al queda

[who?]

It's hard to fight them when they know about our intelligence methods.http://news.yahoo.com/paris-attacks...lamic-state-may-be--going-dark-203103709.html

 

[michal1980]

1) The left needs to realize that alot of Islam beliefs are incompatible with their (the liberals) modern world view.

-It amazes me the amount of excusing and acceptance the left has for people that general dont accept homosexuals, women, and freedom.

2) borders need to be enforced. Free unlimited immigration needs to be stopped. Countries should have a right to determine who enters their country, and how they do so.

3) if we decided not to have boots on the ground, then (2) needs to made even stronger, if they want to blow themselves up they can do it over there.

4) if we decided to take action, then we need to commit to action, and that means staying in areas until they have stabilized enough to not cause trouble, this also includes injecting 'our' beliefs.

 

[flexy]

Even a (hypothetical) complete withdrawal of us from the M.E. won't work since one aim of ISIS is to spread Islam, say all across Europe.

So WITH or WITHOUT military action in the M.E., and ironically even with or without the existence of Israel, the fact that we're not Islamic is reason alone for extremists for terror in whatever nation, in Europe or in the US.

They could just make-up whatever demands on-the-fly, including demanding "capitulation", "abandoning Christianity", tear down St. Peter and replace with a Mosque etc..etc... and since they ARE RELIGIOUS FANATICS they're likely to do so as justification for their holy war. They WILL find reasons. Do you doubt this?

ISIS won't sit there idly singing Kumbaya should they be given a caliphate/nation, they won't sit idle should the entire ME magically become peaceful over night.

Education? Yes I first had doubts...but thinking about it, possible. Still..all it needs is one cleric there proclaiming they won't stop until all Europe has converted to Islam...and that's all it takes for some group(s) to go on a suicide rampage.

I really THINK we need to start thinking about OUR OWN countries first and we have to accept there are some crazies who hate us, address the problems of the threat HERE before anything else.

Ah...nice quote just C/P from CNN:

"You might be able to suppress them militarily, or you might be able to cut off some of their lines, but you can't suppress the key message they're spreading."

My point.

 

[sandorski]

re: Kill them all(Muslims, aka genocide of all Muslims) and Ending the Muslim Religion:

1) Genocide is not an acceptable solution. Ever.

2) Ending a Religion is not a practical solution. There is no way to do it other than to Convince people that their Ideology is wrong. That will work for some who hold an Ideology, but not all and likely not even most.

The only way is to pacify a Religion. Just like how the Western World has pacified Christianity. We(the West) did it by secularizing Government and through Human Rights, especially through the guarantee of Religious Freedom. That was relatively easy though, since we did it to our own Societies, doing it to foreign societies is a whole different thing though.

I think we just need a more Principled Foreign Policy. Supporting our greatest values of Democracy(People choosing their Leaders), Liberty, and Human Rights. Our Allies should be chosen based upon those principles and less on Economic interests. Especially in the Middle East, I mean, Saudi Arabia is our main Ally, but it is also the main source of most of these extremist groups.

 

[feralkid]

usa and its allies are fighting against assad to get rid of him the same way they did with hussein and isis appreciate that, so they get stronger and stronger,they should be supporting assad to get rid of isis like the russian are doing.

that's not what the russians are doing the russians are killing off the rebels who are the allies of the united states not isis.

 

[Indus]

1) The left needs to realize that alot of Islam beliefs are incompatible with their (the liberals) modern world view.

Wow.. blind hate as usual like someone attacked America.

Our security vetting is working.. we have not been attacked by any AQ/ ISIS affiliate on US soil.. only losers who can't find a job and are looking for a way to make people suffer so they do their attacks in the name of Islam pretty much the same way Charleston shooter was indoctrinated by racism and driven by a race war.

I will say this.. we need to support the Patriot Act here in America.

Any Muslim or someone who has expressed support for radical Islam and Jihad should pay a stiff price for it.

Truly moderate Muslims (and those who might be mistaken for Muslims just because they're brown or wear a turban like Sikhs) should be left alone.

As for France.. well they have open borders.. that will likely change. As for us.. we need to be more selective in giving visas as the only way to America is only a plane ride which requires a visa to a North American or South American country since no one can just swim across the Atlantic/ Pacific Oceans. They can't just use rubber dingys like they use to cross from Turkey to Greece.

 

[woolfe9998]

:thumbsdown:
woofle9998, your defence of Whippersnapper and ignorance of genocide is presented:

No hyperbole. No "painting every person they disagree as some sort of fascist..".

Woolfe9998, your glaring misrepresentation of the recorded record is a dark stain upon your integrity.

Concise and precise targeting of Whippersnappers own words as an abuse of this forum and society for propagating a hateful and genocidal agenda.

Explicit incitement to generalised hatred and GENOCIDE is recorded and present.

Woofle9998, you are an embarrassment as fellow Jew to support such equally and vile calls for the extermination to a people as violently happened to our kin.... Woofle9998, supports the crime of above.

You are utterly despicable. Please do NOT reference me in your posts again and then I won't reference you in mine.

 

[woolfe9998]

re: Kill them all(Muslims, aka genocide of all Muslims) and Ending the Muslim Religion:

1) Genocide is not an acceptable solution. Ever.

2) Ending a Religion is not a practical solution. There is no way to do it other than to Convince people that their Ideology is wrong. That will work for some who hold an Ideology, but not all and likely not even most.

The only way is to pacify a Religion. Just like how the Western World has pacified Christianity. We(the West) did it by secularizing Government and through Human Rights, especially through the guarantee of Religious Freedom. That was relatively easy though, since we did it to our own Societies, doing it to foreign societies is a whole different thing though.

I think we just need a more Principled Foreign Policy. Supporting our greatest values of Democracy(People choosing their Leaders), Liberty, and Human Rights. Our Allies should be chosen based upon those principles and less on Economic interests. Especially in the Middle East, I mean, Saudi Arabia is our main Ally, but it is also the main source of most of these extremist groups.

Who here is advocating genocide? I see a lot of one psychologically disturbed poster who seems to be accusing people of advocating it. I see no one actually advocating it.

 

[notposting]

Can see that the thread has (of course) spiraled quickly out of control, but tongue in cheek response:

All those "islands" China is building, so they can try to lay claim to everything?
Blow em all up. Then take credit for it with some ISIS social media accounts.
Sit back with popcorn.

(Bonus points for irritating Putin and blaming it on AQ/IS as well)

 

[GoPackGo]

What we have here is an Islamic Reich that is Hellbent on killing anyone that stands in their way politically and religiously.

 

[HomerJS]

Education. Jobs. Some degree of prosperity.

Bin Landen had all that with a lot of prosperity and look what happened.

 

[disappoint]

Education. Jobs. Some degree of prosperity.

You really think they are interested in that?

 

[michal1980]

Wow.. blind hate as usual like someone attacked America.
.

how is it blind hate?

Its blind to ignore the connection between Islam and terror. And the left is willfully blind.

Until the left acknowledges the connection between the two, nothing can be done.

 

[blankslate]

1) The left needs to realize that alot of Islam beliefs are incompatible with their (the liberals) modern world view.

-It amazes me the amount of excusing and acceptance the left has for people that general dont accept homosexuals, women, and freedom.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w06I6_aTuHc&t=97m19s

I'm not sure America has made the effort that it needs to, to understand what it is we just went through. The really key part is not how to do these operations.
The thing to understand is why are the people we are fighting doing what they are doing. Why is the enemy the enemy? If you don't understand why their doing it, it's very difficult to stop them.
We don't speak the language enough, we don't understand the culture enough. We haven't taken the time to... to not be blind deaf and dumb in the areas of the world that matter to us.

Given that it is a General who had very unflattering things to say about the president who said that...

The right needs to realize that it is those religious and social differences that make it important not to carry on with blind deaf and dumb knee-jerk escalations of military actions in the M.E. that gives them a raging hard-on.

It is the stupid ill-considered and sometimes unnecessary military actions contributed a lot to the rise of ISIS whether the right wants to admit it or not. And no it was not solely politicians on the right who have done so... the continuing use of drone is one thing that while it saves American lives in the short term may result in blow-back years down the road as some relatives of the "collateral damage" nurture a hatred for the country responsible for the drone strikes.

Don't pretend that the right has all the answers in regards to how to deal with ISIS because they don't especially since it was a major military action in the M.E. (supported most fervently by the neo-cons) carried out despite the protests around the world that virtually guaranteed that ISIS would come about.


_______

 

[IronWing]

Until the left acknowledges the connection between the two, nothing can be done.

How did it come to pass that "the left" holds your nuts in a jar?

 

[Slew Foot]

we should have the CIA hire some guys to pose as ISIS and shoot up a school in Moscow. Putin will deal with it better than The US can.

 

[Blue_Max]

2) Ending a Religion is not a practical solution. There is no way to do it other than to Convince people that their Ideology is wrong.

I could see that working and it's starting to happen. The rest of the world, fed up with islamic violence, is starting to show its defiance and say it's unacceptable.

...then come the crying liberals, sobbing at full force, that everyone is being so MEAN to them! How could you monsters say such awful things! All you need to do is love them and the problems (which also don't exist) will magically go away! Just hold hands, feel luvvy, and sing kumbya!

*sigh*

The only time these people wake up (if ever) is when it's far, FAR too late. Even after they've been betrayed and attacked by the very people they've defended, they still apologize for them and lay the blame on the 'meanies' who 'triggered' them instead of the perpetrator themselves. Not exactly big fans of personal accountability or responsibility.

Part of the solution is everyone seeing the truth of the situation absolutely clearly - no bias - just ALL of the plain and simple facts.

Then act with greater strength than the inevitable resistance.

 

[Blackjack200]

...then come the crying liberals, sobbing at full force, that everyone is being so MEAN to them! How could you monsters say such awful things! All you need to do is love them and the problems (which also don't exist) will magically go away! Just hold hands, feel luvvy, and sing kumbya!

Do you wake up this stupid or do you spend a few hours sniffing glue after breakfast?

 

[Blackjack200]

we should have the CIA hire some guys to pose as ISIS and shoot up a school in Moscow. Putin will deal with it better than The US can.

Yeah, Putin's heavy hand will put a stop to that shit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_hostage_crisis

 

[Blue_Max]

Do you wake up this stupid or do you spend a few hours sniffing glue after breakfast?

I cordially invite you to debate my claim with facts of your own.

Rather than merely saying I'm 'stupid', show me I'm wrong with a compelling and factual argument. Show everyone that the liberal side is NOT crying for unquestioning tolerance of islam and to never analyze (let alone question) its teachings.

 

[Blackjack200]

I cordially invite you to debate my claim with facts of your own.

Rather than merely saying I'm 'stupid', show me I'm wrong with a compelling and factual argument. Show everyone that the liberal side is NOT crying for unquestioning tolerance of islam and to never analyze (let alone question) its teachings.

Oh, you're arguing with facts? Please cite which liberal was "...crying..., sobbing at full force, that everyone is being so MEAN to them!"

Who said that "All you need to do is love them and the problems (which also don't exist) will magically go away! Just hold hands, feel luvvy, and sing kumbya!"?

You're just engaging in bullshit identity politics. Make a real argument or offer some facts and I'll be happy to argue them.

 

[MongGrel]

You can actually carpet bomb with smart bombs with some of the newer BUFF upgrades, not that anyone has identified enough targets in one area and used one in reality that way yet I believe. They aren't retrofitting the things like that for no reason.

Just pointing that one out.

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/the-b-52-is-becoming-a-terrifyingly-intelligent-smart-w-1679885252

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/once-again-the-usaf-is-looking-to-re-engine-its-b-52-fl-1685747978

 

[SMOGZINN]

You can't kill an idea with bullets or bombs. You can kill people but you can’t stop people from believing in an ideology that they believe that is worth dying for by killing them. For most of history we have fought wars against people that had an ideology that they thought was worth killing for, but very rarely have we fought one that was worth dying for. That is what we now face.

So, our bullets and bombs are useful to protect ourselves, but it will do nothing to solve the problem. For that we need to replace the idea with a different one. We have to win a cultural war with words and peaceful action. For that we need peace.

 

[woolfe9998]

You can't kill an idea with bullets or bombs. You can kill people but you can’t stop people from believing in an ideology that they believe that is worth dying for by killing them. For most of history we have fought wars against people that had an ideology that they thought was worth killing for, but very rarely have we fought one that was worth dying for. That is what we now face.

So, our bullets and bombs are useful to protect ourselves, but it will do nothing to solve the problem. For that we need to replace the idea with a different one. We have to win a cultural war with words and peaceful action. For that we need peace.

I think there is a degree of truth to this but it is bit over-simplified. We used "bullets and bombs" to defeat the Nazis during WWII. Indeed, it didn't kill the "idea" of fascism and Nazism. There are still people on the planet who believe in it to this day. However, the bullets and bombs did severely restrict the ability of adherents of this idea to dominate, threaten, and kill others.

The thing about ISIS which is very different from other terrorist groups we have fought in the past is that there is a large number of them concentrated in a specific geographical region right now. This presents an opportunity to eliminate a large chunk of them and reduce the threat from this "idea" in the long run.

 

[IGBT]

lets have lots of liberal "hash tag" symbolism..that will teach em.