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What things can Intel and AMD do to make the desktop a better value?

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NUSNA_Moebius said:
I agree with this, but for serious gamers, enthusiasts, and workstation users, towers will be necessary for handling all the potential components while facilitating easy upgrading.
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Is it? Workstation I can agree ion since we usualyl talk dual sockets.

But unless you run SLI/CF. Then you cant claim that serious gamers and enthusiasts cant use MiniITX for example. You could essentially pack a 4790K+16GB+295X2/Titan Z in a MiniITX.
 
ShintaiDK said:
Is it? Workstation I can agree ion since we usualyl talk dual sockets.

But unless you run SLI/CF. Then you cant claim that serious gamers and enthusiasts cant use MiniITX for example. You could essentially pack a 4790K+16GB+295X2/Titan Z in a MiniITX.
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Yup. Does any gamer really need a case larger than this?

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http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=503

Mini ITX motherboard, with a PCIe riser for full size graphics cards.
 
Getting it all really quiet can be a mild struggle if you go too small.
(Might make me get a smallish, padded mini atx next time.).

If we mean mass market desktops in general then they need to be as good an experience as tablets etc so all the stuff like rubbish keyboards, bad monitors and spinning rust needs to die.
 
Qwertilot said:
Getting it all really quiet can be a mild struggle if you go too small.
(Might make me get a smallish, padded mini atx next time.).
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I don't know, that case seems pretty well thought out. A pair of 120mm fan mounts under the GPU, and a 120mm fan mount over the CPU. Chuck in a Big Shuriken 2 and you should get some pretty good cooling.
 
monstercameron said:
Moar coars!
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This.

Stop being such dicks about hyperthreading, nehalem had it on most chips but starting from sandy bridge and up you pay through the nose for it!

Also a cheap 8 core cpu 🙂

Also give it a GPU, im glad my haswell has its own GPU when my 280X decides to play up.
 
ninaholic37 said:
I haven't owned a desktop ever. Laptops since 1989!
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Make a laptop that has an external PCIe x16 slot, so you can connect your own video card and use a separate power supply for the video card, and do serious gaming using the laptop as a desktop hybrid.
 
ShintaiDK said:
Is it? Workstation I can agree ion since we usualyl talk dual sockets.

But unless you run SLI/CF. Then you cant claim that serious gamers and enthusiasts cant use MiniITX for example. You could essentially pack a 4790K+16GB+295X2/Titan Z in a MiniITX.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I was really referring to very small devices like the BRIX line. They are fascinating but really need the TDW issue worked out to make throttling unnecessary. As for mini ITX, yes I mostly agree, but they can still be limiting in terms of expansion unless you pay extra for good integrated mobo wireless and high quality audio.

I do like the rise of these mini ITX cases with full size graphics capabilities. Much prefer the console layout to the box style.
 
KingFatty said:
Make a laptop that has an external PCIe x16 slot, so you can connect your own video card and use a separate power supply for the video card, and do serious gaming using the laptop as a desktop hybrid.
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Expensive and none of the laptop makers want to invest in such interfaces. I've seen some of the DIY stuff however, and it is quite awesome.
 
Erenhardt said:
"Lower prices" - Sincerely Mr. Obvious
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Do we really need lower prices? Or is the "race to the bottom" part of the problem in the PC OEM industry? When every beige (now black) box is the same conglomeration of parts, and there are no exciting, differentiating features, is that what you want?

A sea of 22nm Atoms? Kabini dual-cores? Is that what you want?
 
VirtualLarry said:
Do we really need lower prices? Or is the "race to the bottom" part of the problem in the PC OEM industry? When every beige (now black) box is the same conglomeration of parts, and there are no exciting, differentiating features, is that what you want?

A sea of 22nm Atoms? Kabini dual-cores? Is that what you want?
Click to expand...

Part of the race is with tablets and laptops, where everything is competing with everything else in some kind of way to garner buyers towards specific markets.
 
Insert_Nickname said:
NUC 'em. That's precisely what NUC and its equivalents excel at.
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NUSNA_Moebius said:
However, I would like to see more performance all-in-ones, and the ability to upgrade an AIO with standard desktop components would be amazing, even if it meant sticking to low profile video cards and low TDP CPUs. I know that HP has an upgradeable AIO workstation but it is ridiculously expensive. I know Shuttle has (or had?) barebones AIOs but they are limited in what they can handle.
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How about a monitor docking-station standard for NUCs? Maybe even MiniITX, though I think they're a little too big. Just snap the system onto the back of the monitor!
 
VirtualLarry said:
Do we really need lower prices? Or is the "race to the bottom" part of the problem in the PC OEM industry? When every beige (now black) box is the same conglomeration of parts, and there are no exciting, differentiating features, is that what you want?

A sea of 22nm Atoms? Kabini dual-cores? Is that what you want?
Click to expand...

Unlocked Celeron dual cores (based on Core, not atom), that is what I want!
 
I still like my old black, modded, 80lb Desktop full tower on the main 😛

It's all ready been around a long time.
 
I have 3 boxes that 24 threads, and one that has 24 cores. Laptops can't do that. One of those can handle 7 videos cards, but the most that I think it can really use is 4. Still 4, discrete video cards of the best you can get, blows away laptops.

Bottom line, way more power for anything is possible. Laptops are just not in the same class.
 
Markfw900 said:
I have 3 boxes that 24 threads, and one that has 24 cores. Laptops can't do that. One of those can handle 7 videos cards, but the most that I think it can really use is 4. Still 4, discrete video cards of the best you can get, blows away laptops.

Bottom line, way more power for anything is possible. Laptops are just not in the same class.
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This performance profile is closer to Workstations or servers than of ordinary desktops.
 
You know......desktop CPU prices haven't changed much at all and haven't kept up with inflation in the past 20 years? In 1996 a flagship CPU could easily cost 800$+. Although in the past you could get OEM or retail boxed CPUs with the OEM having a slight discount. I don't remember OEM CPUs (CPUs in a plain cardboard box, no markings, no stock fan, etc) being sold for a long time. Back in the day if you could go without a stock fan, going OEM could save you a few bucks. No such luck now, everything is retail boxed,.

Anyway. Prices haven't really budged much on the CPU end. In the late 90s a Celeron 300a was around 200 bucks. Drawing a parallel here, the i5's are around 200 bucks. Not much different. The pentium P55C CPUs sold for 700-800$ at launch in the mid 90s. 20 years ago. Nowadays flagship CPUs haven't changed all that much in price when considering inflation. Certainly haven't kept pace with inflation on everything else. Back in the early days, you could pay nearly a grand for bragging rights CPUs. The same applies today.

If anything, you should apply this question to other components. Although I will say. The only MAJOR thing that has changed is branding with motherboards......around the year 2000 you didn't really have so much choice with motherboards and so much price variance. Now you have the ROG super duper overclocking motherboards that cost 400$+, it wasn't like that back in the day. Pretty much most companies released 1-2 SKUs for a given chipset and that was basically that. GPU wise, in 1996 or so you could get a Matrox Millenium + 3dfx voodoo for 400$. Now? You get a GTX 780 or R9 video card for 400-500$.

I think CPU prices are fine. Other components? Maybe that's the better angle in seeking desktop value. Although, if you're a smart shopper, you can still get a great deal really. PC build prices haven't changed much IMHO.
 
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blackened23 said:
I think CPU prices are fine. Other components? Maybe that's the better angle in seeking desktop value.
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Yes, that is why I brought up having flash integrated on the motherboard.

Also having multiple video outputs (such as DVI-I, rather than DVI-D) on the iGPU allows the budget power user to use multiple flat panel VGA monitors (which cost next to nothing these days). This without having to use active adapters or a discrete video card (both of which add cost to the system)

Of course, with that mentioned I would still like to see Intel offer more bang for the buck in the low end core line-up ( I think they could do this without lowering the price floor of core based Celerons any further by either offering unlocked multiplier or substantially raising clock speeds). Pentium G3258 was a great first step, hopefully we see a follow-up soon.

One day I would really like to be able to build a relatively powerful Celeron dual core machine with integrated flash storage (plus SATA ports) and multiple video outs on the iGPU for $150 without OS.
 
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blackened23 said:
You know......desktop CPU prices haven't changed much at all and haven't kept up with inflation in the past 20 years? In 1996 a flagship CPU could easily cost 800$+. Although in the past you could get OEM or retail boxed CPUs with the OEM having a slight discount. I don't remember OEM CPUs (CPUs in a plain cardboard box, no markings, no stock fan, etc) being sold for a long time. Back in the day if you could go without a stock fan, going OEM could save you a few bucks. No such luck now, everything is retail boxed,.

Anyway. Prices haven't really budged much on the CPU end. In the late 90s a Celeron 300a was around 200 bucks. Drawing a parallel here, the i5's are around 200 bucks. Not much different. The pentium P55C CPUs sold for 700-800$ at launch in the mid 90s. 20 years ago. Nowadays flagship CPUs haven't changed all that much in price when considering inflation. Certainly haven't kept pace with inflation on everything else. Back in the early days, you could pay nearly a grand for bragging rights CPUs. The same applies today.
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CPUs are much much cheaper than back then. I dont know why you wish to compare a Celeron 300A for example to an i5. A Celeron 300A in todays money would be around 225$(It retailed at 149$). Celerons today sell for 40-50$.

Specially mainstream/performance desktop products got a huge pricecut in 2006.

CPUs never been cheaper than they are today.
 
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I, for one, am tired of the ancient metrics they use to describe specifications.

Tech will only truly move forward when I can get a 50 Terainch/s CPU in a system with 2.2 ounces of RAM and an LP-Hifi storage system.
 
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