What The US army does to People who loot

[yukichigai]

Originally posted by: Don_Vito

Originally posted by: DeathByAnts

Um, in certain states in the US, it is legal (and practiced) to permanently impound the vehicle of someone who witnesses a drug sale and does not report it. I don't see how this is really any different/worse.

I am unaware of any such laws, and I have been a criminal litigator for five years. The federal law does allow for the seizure of property and vehicles that have been used for drug transport and trafficking, but generally there are no laws against failing to report crimes committed by others, and I would be interested if you could point me to such a law.

The thing is, our nation has laws that allow for civil forfeiture of property for drug traffickers. I personally think they are questionable from a constitutional standpoint, since the constitution generally requires the government to provide due process before taking life, liberty or property, but that's a topic for another day. The point is, there is no such law in Iraq, and these soldiers simply made up what they thought was an appropriate sanction. They are not lawyers or judges, and were basically acting as uniformed vigilantes.

The fact of the matter is that, in this country (which the Army is obviously acting on behalf of), a person would typically get a few month's probation for stealing a few dollars worth of wood. Instead, the Army destroyed what was likely the owner's only valuable property. That's wrong, and sends the worst possible message to the people whose country we went there to liberate.

California law allows for the police to impound vehicles if they even suspect drug activity. I've heard of a few cases of people getting their cars impounded and then sold in a police auction, all without any proof of drug activity resulting from either the initial incident where the impound first occured, or searches of the car after it was impounded. Of course in all such cases I heard about the person in question was a known drug user/dealer/trafficker and had priors, but the fact that it happened when there was no proof of drug activity in that particular incident is kind of scary. I'm not sure if they've closed that loophole yet, but they might have.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: ROTC1983

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: ROTC1983

Originally posted by: SampSon

The only Iraqi shoes I'll be wearing are if for some reason My Boots get destroyed and there happens to be a dead Iraqi laying around with size 15 feet which would beat walking barefoot. But thats not to likely to happen. I have nice boots.

Big shoes, small penis.. er brain.

Well I guess you, and these other guys in the video show the caliber of people the military lets in.

I believe you can stop trying to flame bait any time know. Do you have nothing better to do? I have talked with TallBill for a while, and your constant attacks against him are just agitating. You seem to be able to judge a person perfectly even though you don't know him.

I think his statement was perfectly warranted considering tallbill was acting like an ass and isn't even active duty.

I agree, you have heard of the My Lai incident, correct? This event could be partially compared to this event back in 1964 in Vietnam I believe. Someone is more than likely going to get punished for doing something like that IF there is some other evidence that points in the direction that what they were doing was excessive.

I don't know if I would compare it to killing and brutalizing a village, but at least there was SOME reason for that. It didn't excuse it, but the Viet Cong were pretty big assholes. In this case it was looting and not civilian attacks on the troops.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: yukichigai

Originally posted by: Don_Vito

Originally posted by: DeathByAnts

Um, in certain states in the US, it is legal (and practiced) to permanently impound the vehicle of someone who witnesses a drug sale and does not report it. I don't see how this is really any different/worse.

I am unaware of any such laws, and I have been a criminal litigator for five years. The federal law does allow for the seizure of property and vehicles that have been used for drug transport and trafficking, but generally there are no laws against failing to report crimes committed by others, and I would be interested if you could point me to such a law.

The thing is, our nation has laws that allow for civil forfeiture of property for drug traffickers. I personally think they are questionable from a constitutional standpoint, since the constitution generally requires the government to provide due process before taking life, liberty or property, but that's a topic for another day. The point is, there is no such law in Iraq, and these soldiers simply made up what they thought was an appropriate sanction. They are not lawyers or judges, and were basically acting as uniformed vigilantes.

The fact of the matter is that, in this country (which the Army is obviously acting on behalf of), a person would typically get a few month's probation for stealing a few dollars worth of wood. Instead, the Army destroyed what was likely the owner's only valuable property. That's wrong, and sends the worst possible message to the people whose country we went there to liberate.

California law allows for the police to impound vehicles if they even suspect drug activity. I've heard of a few cases of people getting their cars impounded and then sold in a police auction, all without any proof of drug activity resulting from either the initial incident where the impound first occured, or searches of the car after it was impounded. Of course in all such cases I heard about the person in question was a known drug user/dealer/trafficker and had priors, but the fact that it happened when there was no proof of drug activity in that particular incident is kind of scary. I'm not sure if they've closed that loophole yet, but they might have.

Witness a drug sale and not reporting =! involved in drug activity.

 

[CanOWorms]

This is pathetic. How can you demolish someone's car for taking wood? Next they'll probably chop off limbs for stealing food. This is just so extreme. Bunch of thugs... shooting up the car and then rolling over it twice.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
This is pathetic. How can you demolish someone's car for taking wood? Next they'll probably chop off limbs for stealing food. This is just so extreme. Bunch of thugs... shooting up the car and then rolling over it twice.

I bet you the French wouldn't have done that.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: yukichigai

Originally posted by: Don_Vito

Originally posted by: DeathByAnts

Um, in certain states in the US, it is legal (and practiced) to permanently impound the vehicle of someone who witnesses a drug sale and does not report it. I don't see how this is really any different/worse.

I am unaware of any such laws, and I have been a criminal litigator for five years. The federal law does allow for the seizure of property and vehicles that have been used for drug transport and trafficking, but generally there are no laws against failing to report crimes committed by others, and I would be interested if you could point me to such a law.

The thing is, our nation has laws that allow for civil forfeiture of property for drug traffickers. I personally think they are questionable from a constitutional standpoint, since the constitution generally requires the government to provide due process before taking life, liberty or property, but that's a topic for another day. The point is, there is no such law in Iraq, and these soldiers simply made up what they thought was an appropriate sanction. They are not lawyers or judges, and were basically acting as uniformed vigilantes.

The fact of the matter is that, in this country (which the Army is obviously acting on behalf of), a person would typically get a few month's probation for stealing a few dollars worth of wood. Instead, the Army destroyed what was likely the owner's only valuable property. That's wrong, and sends the worst possible message to the people whose country we went there to liberate.

California law allows for the police to impound vehicles if they even suspect drug activity. I've heard of a few cases of people getting their cars impounded and then sold in a police auction, all without any proof of drug activity resulting from either the initial incident where the impound first occured, or searches of the car after it was impounded. Of course in all such cases I heard about the person in question was a known drug user/dealer/trafficker and had priors, but the fact that it happened when there was no proof of drug activity in that particular incident is kind of scary. I'm not sure if they've closed that loophole yet, but they might have.

Witness a drug sale and not reporting =! involved in drug activity.

If you don't oppose something, you may as well support it. If you know something's wrong (i.e. illegal drug sale) and you don't do your civic duty to protect your country and uphold the law, then you're no better, in many people's eyes, as the people who are actually committing the crime. In some cases, you can be prosecuted for not coming forward to report it.

Oh... and it's "!=" and not "=!" 😉

 

[0roo0roo]

eh, that was only 1minutes and 20 seconds of a 2 hour show. its not all like that obviously. it was a kewl show though, plenty of battle footage.http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/invasion/ too bad they don't have a streaming version of it, it was on tv last week.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: FFMCobalt

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: yukichigai

Originally posted by: Don_Vito

Originally posted by: DeathByAnts

Um, in certain states in the US, it is legal (and practiced) to permanently impound the vehicle of someone who witnesses a drug sale and does not report it. I don't see how this is really any different/worse.

I am unaware of any such laws, and I have been a criminal litigator for five years. The federal law does allow for the seizure of property and vehicles that have been used for drug transport and trafficking, but generally there are no laws against failing to report crimes committed by others, and I would be interested if you could point me to such a law.

The thing is, our nation has laws that allow for civil forfeiture of property for drug traffickers. I personally think they are questionable from a constitutional standpoint, since the constitution generally requires the government to provide due process before taking life, liberty or property, but that's a topic for another day. The point is, there is no such law in Iraq, and these soldiers simply made up what they thought was an appropriate sanction. They are not lawyers or judges, and were basically acting as uniformed vigilantes.

The fact of the matter is that, in this country (which the Army is obviously acting on behalf of), a person would typically get a few month's probation for stealing a few dollars worth of wood. Instead, the Army destroyed what was likely the owner's only valuable property. That's wrong, and sends the worst possible message to the people whose country we went there to liberate.

California law allows for the police to impound vehicles if they even suspect drug activity. I've heard of a few cases of people getting their cars impounded and then sold in a police auction, all without any proof of drug activity resulting from either the initial incident where the impound first occured, or searches of the car after it was impounded. Of course in all such cases I heard about the person in question was a known drug user/dealer/trafficker and had priors, but the fact that it happened when there was no proof of drug activity in that particular incident is kind of scary. I'm not sure if they've closed that loophole yet, but they might have.

Witness a drug sale and not reporting =! involved in drug activity.

If you don't oppose something, you may as well support it. If you know something's wrong (i.e. illegal drug sale) and you don't do your civic duty to protect your country and uphold the law, then you're no better, in many people's eyes, as the people who are actually committing the crime. In some cases, you can be prosecuted for not coming forward to report it.

Oh... and it's "!=" and not "=!" 😉

Not really. Very few "good Samaritan laws" exist if any. Link to some that do?

 

[Czar]

first of all a stupid response in some way and some not
but most of all stupid beyond reason, the things they stole was still on the frigging car when they drove over it!!

 

[burnedout]

Originally posted by: tnitsuj

Does anyone think the same thing would have happened if there had been an officer around?

I thought more about this incident since last night. After comparing their actions with my own experiences, I think the track crew may have - or should have - called higher for further guidance on how to deal with the situation on the ground. In this case, "higher" for this crew would have been the Platoon Sergeant (E-7), Platoon Leader (an LT in grade O1-O2) or perhaps the company XO (O2) or CO (O3). M1s and M2s generally operate in the wingman concept meaning that there is a second track somewhere in the AO providing support. In other words, the video only provides us a a brief snapshot of the whole picture. Therefore, I seriously doubt the TC or Tank Commander made the decision himself to smash the car. Indeed, they should have been more professional about the whole thing, especially in front of a camera. Youthful exhuberance definitely can change the complexion of a situation.

Anyhow, while I don't support the actions seen in the video, I can say that dealing this type of immediate justice after "standing down" from taking over a country is nothing new. From my estimation of the entire situation, both the Army and USMC had their hands full trying to maintain some sort of order. Confronting civil unrest doesn't necessarily give these crewmen a license to rape, pillage and burn. However, when facing literally hundreds of similar situations in a given day, coupled with limited boots on the ground, something must give.

Crap is gonna go down "over there". Years later, some of us look back, shake our heads in disbelief, and try to do a little better in life. The main thing is to leave it all "over there" yet learn from it.

 

[Bulk Beef]

You don't run off with a tank without an officer.

Every tank has a commanding officer -and not just someone who's one rank higher than the driver.

Tanks have commanders, not commanding officers.

 

[Dark4ng3l]

bump

 

[MAME]

Originally posted by: Jigga
if he's such an enterprising individual he can make a rickshaw from whatever's left over of that wood.

that's like saying you can make dentures from all the teeth I knock out of your mouth when kick your face in :|:|:|

jerkass

 

[FelixDeCat]

Originally posted by: Electrode
PWNED!!!

They should do that here...

 

[UnatcoAgent]

There's a video of Entensity.net with an iraq man having his hand and foot amputated for stealing, someone mentioned it above. If you want to be shocked - watch that.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: MAME

Originally posted by: Jigga
if he's such an enterprising individual he can make a rickshaw from whatever's left over of that wood.

that's like saying you can make dentures from all the teeth I knock out of your mouth when kick your face in :|:|:|

jerkass

I have to think jigga was kidding - I certainly took it that way.

 

[MustangSVT]

this is why we send idiots to wars.

didnt expect anything less from them.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: MustangSVT
this is why we send idiots to wars.

didnt expect anything less from them.

Those kinds of "idiots" fought for your country's independence, and continue to protect its freedom. I think these particular soldiers handled this situation badly, but that does not make military members idiots. What have you ever done for anyone that gives you the right to talk like this?

 

[TallBill]

ROFL Mill, you no almost zero about military. First of all Mp's are the most deployed force in the entire Military. I wonder why. Oh, probably because anywhere the military goes, MP's are needed. Read some newspapers sometime. There are quite a few units being trained as Military Policemen as a secondary MOS because there is such a high demand for MP's. Mp's happen to also have a very high death toll.

Yes, I am currently in a reserve unit but I am awaiting active duty deployment. As soon as an officer signs a dotted line, I'm gone. Knock me all you want, but I still raised my hand to volunteer, and gave up 17 weeks of my life to train, and in less then a month plan on giving up a minimum of 5 more years just like the hundreds of thousands of other soldiers in this country who you are showing no respect.

I'm done with this thread. I dont need or want any respect from you or plan on ever getting any. Just remember that each of those "idoit grunts" that dies over there gave up his life for punks like you. And dont say that they didnt, because if absolutely nobody volunteered, dont you think we'd have a drafted Army?

 

[MAME]

Originally posted by: Don_Vito

Originally posted by: MAME

Originally posted by: Jigga
if he's such an enterprising individual he can make a rickshaw from whatever's left over of that wood.

that's like saying you can make dentures from all the teeth I knock out of your mouth when kick your face in :|:|:|

jerkass

I have to think jigga was kidding - I certainly took it that way.

here's the full quote:

Originally posted by: JiggaMan, that's just typical PBS anti-American liberal propagandist bullsh*t. "Taxi was his livelihood" whaa whaa whaa bitch bitch whine--if he's such an enterprising individual he can make a rickshaw from whatever's left over of that wood.

he's an ass

 

[jagr10]

The U.S. knows how to make an impression, that's for sure.

 

[OffTopic1]

Originally posted by: Yzzim
no wonder they hate us

This vid just reaffirm why the Iraqis see us as the terrorizer.

 

[Psycho18]

I thought that was funny, but then retarded in a way of professionalism.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: TallBill
ROFL Mill, you no almost zero about military. First of all Mp's are the most deployed force in the entire Military. I wonder why. Oh, probably because anywhere the military goes, MP's are needed. Read some newspapers sometime. There are quite a few units being trained as Military Policemen as a secondary MOS because there is such a high demand for MP's. Mp's happen to also have a very high death toll.

Yes, I am currently in a reserve unit but I am awaiting active duty deployment. As soon as an officer signs a dotted line, I'm gone. Knock me all you want, but I still raised my hand to volunteer, and gave up 17 weeks of my life to train, and in less then a month plan on giving up a minimum of 5 more years just like the hundreds of thousands of other soldiers in this country who you are showing no respect.

I'm done with this thread. I dont need or want any respect from you or plan on ever getting any. Just remember that each of those "idoit grunts" that dies over there gave up his life for punks like you. And dont say that they didnt, because if absolutely nobody volunteered, dont you think we'd have a drafted Army?

I never called anyone in the military an idiot, jerkwad. I simply said you were acting as if you were on the frontlines when you are an MP. And yes I am well aware that MPs are need in all parts of an operation, but you aren't out there doing sweeps of high risk areas.

 

[Horus]

That was disgraceful..."American tankers hooah"...hope they wern't armored cav.

Also, I'd LOVE to see the look on the face of their Ammo NCO when they return to base.

"Yeah, sergeant, I need another clip for my beretta...i emptied one on a car, then crushed the car with an abrams."

That's pretty much the same as someone from my arty regiment saying...

"We caught them stealing...so we're gonna put a round of HE into their car."

Are american soldiers not accountable for ammunition at all? I know that whenever canadian troops fire off ammo, it has to be reported...better training=more dicipline=less wasted ammo=less embarassing international incidents...(bar Somalia)