What the fvck is wrong with the Catholics?

[onebeeer2many]

Originally posted by: Beller0ph1
A little background on me before you read...
- 12 years of Catholic education (8 grade school, 4 Jesuit high school)
- Senior at UW-Madison and still practicing
- Been involved with the Mass since 5th grade

I agree with the all or nothing. Since there are a multitude of different religions, you can pretty much pick and choose what you want. I don't like telling people that they are going to hell, or to actively convert them to Catholicism. If they want to convert, they will do so from themselves coming from my and others example. We even say in our Nicene Creed said at every Mass, "We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church". Notice how the word "catholic" is not capitalized. Used in this context, catholic means universal. But, to others who don't understand, it just means 1 church. What do I believe? 1 Church.

The RCIA program came up earlier in this "sophistcated" debate. Although its only 12 weeks, the Catholics that come out of it are often more Catholic than those born and raised in Catholic homes. This comes from the fact that they willingly choose to be Catholic, from the good works and such they see around them.

But just like any organization, the Church must have consistent rules and regulations. Just this summer, an amendment was made to the GIRM, the General Instruction of the Roman Missal (the "cookbook" for a Catholic Mass). This standardized such simple ceremony and procedure governing the distribution of Eucharist, when to sit, stand, or kneel, and other timing and behavior issues. This is to ensure that no matter what parish you attend Mass at, the Mass will be the same. Ever since they started saying Mass in the vernacular (natural) language of a population (post Vatican II), traveing Catholics may have only a general idea how far along they may be in the Mass. Now, with the changes to the GIRM, a traveling Catholic will know exactly what part the Mass is at. To me, traveling between my home parish and campus parish, the change is welcome since both had different traditions on when to stand after the Offering.

There are people that follow them to the letter, while there are others that don't. If I recall, the Jesuits have been sometimes the "black sheep" of the Catholic family, even though one of their primary vows is Obedience. If someone doesn't like the rules, they can leave. The Catholic population of the US may be falling, but is increasing in the rest of the world. There are other dioscese that have an abundance of priests, albiet outside of the US.

BTW, this issue has come up before. A quick search of "wheat host" on everyone's favorite search engine (*ahem* Google) brings up an article. The mother was wrong turning down the alternatives to the well defined doctrine. And I quote from the article:

The diocese has told Haley's mother that the girl can receive a low-gluten wafer, or just drink wine at Communion, but that anything without gluten does not qualify. Pelly-Waldman rejected the offer, saying her child could be harmed by even a small amount of the substance.

Why not take the alternative?

The bread species of the Eucharist does not have to be wafers either. At my campus parish, we use unleavened bread baked by one of the community members. However, it still has wheat gluten in it.

As to some of the responses on this board, I say take an educated stand instead of a knee-jerk response. The 1st amendment allows us the freedom of speech AND the freedom of religion. Let's keep this discussion civil and not impose too much on everyone's first amendment rights.

wel said. :beer:

 

[bandana163]

About the OP:
That mother takes her community too seriously. It's just a religion, nothing more...

What's wrong with the Catholics?
IMO, nothing. Some things never change.

 

[Iron Woode]

I actually agree with MichaelD!

From KG to Grade 13 spent in Catholic Schools.

Too much self-centered Catholic BS.

HS was the real eye opener. Any religion other than Christianity and specifically Catholicism was wrong and they will burn in hell.

We were supposed to be happy when Catholic missionaries spread the word of GOD to indigenoius peoples while at the same time offering medical help only if you converted. :|

By grade 12 I was openly rebelling against the hypocrisy. Don't even mention homosexuality back then. They didn't exist. If they said they were gay then all they needed was more church.

Aids was a plague sent by God to eliminate the sodomites and the faithless.

Biology class was a joke as you couldn't even discuss Evolution. It was Creation and that was that. That was the last straw before I rebelled. I actually remember asking the teacher in front of the whole class if the Sun and the Planets were still revolving around the Earth. LOL.

The only good class was History.

I was only too glad to graduate and get away from all things Catholic.

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: Iron Woode
I actually agree with MichaelD!

From KG to Grade 13 spent in Catholic Schools.

Too much self-centered Catholic BS.

HS was the real eye opener. Any religion other than Christianity and specifically Catholicism was wrong and they will burn in hell.

We were supposed to be happy when Catholic missionaries spread the word of GOD to indigenoius peoples while at the same time offering medical help only if you converted. :|

By grade 12 I was openly rebelling against the hypocrisy. Don't even mention homosexuality back then. They didn't exist. If they said they were gay then all they needed was more church.

Aids was a plague sent by God to eliminate the sodomites and the faithless.

Biology class was a joke as you couldn't even discuss Evolution. It was Creation and that was that. That was the last straw before I rebelled. I actually remember asking the teacher in front of the whole class if the Sun and the Planets were still revolving around the Earth. LOL.

The only good class was History.

I was only too glad to graduate and get away from all things Catholic.

I updated your post to be more accurate:

From KG to Grade 13 I slept through Catholic Schools.

This has to be true because your post is the most rediculous bunch of crap I've ever read. NONE of those things are taught in Catholic schools-

HS was the real eye opener. Any religion other than Christianity and specifically Catholicism was wrong and they will burn in hell.

Any religion thinks like this, but Catholics are going on that they are following Christ's teaching the way they were intended, where other religions have made modifications to the teachings. Catholics are actually very tolerant of other religions and we were even taught about them in grade school.

We were supposed to be happy when Catholic missionaries spread the word of GOD to indigenoius peoples while at the same time offering medical help only if you converted. :|

Where did you get this from? Are you talking about missionaries from 300 years ago?

By grade 12 I was openly rebelling against the hypocrisy. Don't even mention homosexuality back then. They didn't exist. If they said they were gay then all they needed was more church.

And which religion accepts homosexuality with open arms?

Aids was a plague sent by God to eliminate the sodomites and the faithless.

This was NEVER said by anyone in the Catholic church...more like a redneck wish than a church doctrine

Biology class was a joke as you couldn't even discuss Evolution. It was Creation and that was that. That was the last straw before I rebelled. I actually remember asking the teacher in front of the whole class if the Sun and the Planets were still revolving around the Earth. LOL.

This depends more on the person teaching than the church- the church simply goes with "God created all things". That can be interpreted however you wish. A lot of the current priests go with the "God caused the big bang" theory. Hardly anyone takes the book of Genesis literally anymore.

I think the reason you're so hostile is you found the religion too confining and too disiplined, where you're probably more of a free spirit. I'm also going to go out on a limb and say that you probably got in trouble for disipline problems in school, so you now view the Catholic church as a represive authority figure rather than an outlet for spirituality.

 

[Iron Woode]

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: Iron Woode
I actually agree with MichaelD!

From KG to Grade 13 spent in Catholic Schools.

Too much self-centered Catholic BS.

HS was the real eye opener. Any religion other than Christianity and specifically Catholicism was wrong and they will burn in hell.

We were supposed to be happy when Catholic missionaries spread the word of GOD to indigenoius peoples while at the same time offering medical help only if you converted. :|

By grade 12 I was openly rebelling against the hypocrisy. Don't even mention homosexuality back then. They didn't exist. If they said they were gay then all they needed was more church.

Aids was a plague sent by God to eliminate the sodomites and the faithless.

Biology class was a joke as you couldn't even discuss Evolution. It was Creation and that was that. That was the last straw before I rebelled. I actually remember asking the teacher in front of the whole class if the Sun and the Planets were still revolving around the Earth. LOL.

The only good class was History.

I was only too glad to graduate and get away from all things Catholic.

I updated your post to be more accurate:

From KG to Grade 13 I slept through Catholic Schools.

This has to be true because your post is the most rediculous bunch of crap I've ever read. NONE of those things are taught in Catholic schools-

HS was the real eye opener. Any religion other than Christianity and specifically Catholicism was wrong and they will burn in hell.

Any religion thinks like this, but Catholics are going on that they are following Christ's teaching the way they were intended, where other religions have made modifications to the teachings. Catholics are actually very tolerant of other religions and we were even taught about them in grade school.

We were supposed to be happy when Catholic missionaries spread the word of GOD to indigenoius peoples while at the same time offering medical help only if you converted. :|

Where did you get this from? Are you talking about missionaries from 300 years ago?

By grade 12 I was openly rebelling against the hypocrisy. Don't even mention homosexuality back then. They didn't exist. If they said they were gay then all they needed was more church.

And which religion accepts homosexuality with open arms?

Aids was a plague sent by God to eliminate the sodomites and the faithless.

This was NEVER said by anyone in the Catholic church...more like a redneck wish than a church doctrine

Biology class was a joke as you couldn't even discuss Evolution. It was Creation and that was that. That was the last straw before I rebelled. I actually remember asking the teacher in front of the whole class if the Sun and the Planets were still revolving around the Earth. LOL.

This depends more on the person teaching than the church- the church simply goes with "God created all things". That can be interpreted however you wish. A lot of the current priests go with the "God caused the big bang" theory. Hardly anyone takes the book of Genesis literally anymore.

I think the reason you're so hostile is you found the religion too confining and too disiplined, where you're probably more of a free spirit. I'm also going to go out on a limb and say that you probably got in trouble for disipline problems in school, so you now view the Catholic church as a represive authority figure rather than an outlet for spirituality.

The missionary thing was recent at the time. We are talking 1979-1985 here. We actually had a missionary come in and lecture our class on its achievements. I was disgusted that they demanded conversion for medicine.

A number of teachers were openly hostile to homosexuality and stated that GRID (original name for AIDS) and AIDS were punishments for being gay.

Biology class was based on school policy which was based on church policy and evolution was considered stupid thinking. That didn't mean we didn't learn anything about biology. It just meant that we weren't allowed to bring up Darwin or evolution as fact. Even natural selection was considered close to crossing the line. Other than that it was a good class and without even studying I managed an 84 average. BTW this was OAC Biology (Grade 13).

I had discipline issues for a lot of reasons. Until I was 17 I was short, fat and homely. I got picked on a lot and I was starting to snap. Puberty was a godsend for me. In one summer I went from 5'4" to 6" tall. I was still overweight, but I was big and strong and slowly getting handsome. Yup, picking on me then was a bad idea. Working out big time made me confident in my ability to stand up for myself. Then I got suspended for a day after a fight in the cafeteria that looked like something from animal house. I took down 3 guys much bigger than me and it took a teacher and 3 staff to hold me back from the fourth guy.

I am not hostile to Catholicism, I just know when to stop listening to it. School seemed too rigid for my liking and was hardly fair to the students. They banned my lumber jacket and jean jackets. I wore them anyway. We had to pay for our education because the Province only funded Public Schools. This later changed after I graduated. I figured if I was paying, I should have a say in my wardrobe.

Yes, I am a free spirit. I was the anti-nerd in school. I was in the computer club we had and was very knowledgable about computer technology and BASIC and machine code programming at the time. I knew more than our teacher did. But I looked like a metal head back then, not a nerd. I liked being myself rather than being put in a mould. I became a decent caring man.

Would I get married in the church? I don't know. Would I baptise my kid(s)? I don't know.

 

[klah]

"What the fvck is wrong with the Catholics?"

Their religion.

 

[JetsFanatic]

My sister is catholic and I find it very strange that if she does not attend a catholic church
it does not count as going to mass.

for example on Easter, if she were to come to church with me and my parents, which is not catholic,
it does not count as going to Easter mass. How is that? Does GOD not want a whole family to
celebrate Easter together? I think GOD does want us to be together.

I see many things that Catholics do and practice that I do not agree with.

But, the most important thing is each and everyones personal relationship with GOD.

 

[SagaLore]

I thought that the typical bread eaten in Jesus' time was made from Barley, not wheat.

 

[Hork]

Originally posted by: yukichigai
I cannot believe the church is this f%$#ing stupid. Being raised Catholic I know a bit about the church, and this situation runs directly counter to much of what the church believes. Allow me to explain.

Many churches practice Communion, each time commemorating the Last Supper. However, the Catholic church is different than other churches in that they believe in Transubstansiation(sp?). Simply put, the bread and wine are transmuted into the actual flesh and blood of Christ. Saying that communion wafers must be wheat means one of two things: 1) God's power is somehow limited such that Transubstansiation(sp?) only works on wheat, or 2) the communion wafers aren't really the flesh of Christ.

The Vatican can't have it both ways. They'll either have to let the girl take communion as she must or turn a thousand+ years of beliefs on its head.

Yeah... if the host is transubstantiated, what does it matter if she is allergic to wheat? Apparently she doesn't have the faith in transubstantiation, else she would eat.

Of course, I don't blame her on that one! :-D

"Last time I took communion I got a toenail!" -- I made that up! :-D

 

[blakeatwork]

Originally posted by: Iron Woode
The missionary thing was recent at the time. We are talking 1979-1985 here. We actually had a missionary come in and lecture our class on its achievements. I was disgusted that they demanded conversion for medicine.

A number of teachers were openly hostile to homosexuality and stated that GRID (original name for AIDS) and AIDS were punishments for being gay.

Biology class was based on school policy which was based on church policy and evolution was considered stupid thinking. That didn't mean we didn't learn anything about biology. It just meant that we weren't allowed to bring up Darwin or evolution as fact. Even natural selection was considered close to crossing the line. Other than that it was a good class and without even studying I managed an 84 average. BTW this was OAC Biology (Grade 13).

I had discipline issues for a lot of reasons. Until I was 17 I was short, fat and homely. I got picked on a lot and I was starting to snap. Puberty was a godsend for me. In one summer I went from 5'4" to 6" tall. I was still overweight, but I was big and strong and slowly getting handsome. Yup, picking on me then was a bad idea. Working out big time made me confident in my ability to stand up for myself. Then I got suspended for a day after a fight in the cafeteria that looked like something from animal house. I took down 3 guys much bigger than me and it took a teacher and 3 staff to hold me back from the fourth guy.

I am not hostile to Catholicism, I just know when to stop listening to it. School seemed too rigid for my liking and was hardly fair to the students. They banned my lumber jacket and jean jackets. I wore them anyway. We had to pay for our education because the Province only funded Public Schools. This later changed after I graduated. I figured if I was paying, I should have a say in my wardrobe.

Yes, I am a free spirit. I was the anti-nerd in school. I was in the computer club we had and was very knowledgable about computer technology and BASIC and machine code programming at the time. I knew more than our teacher did. But I looked like a metal head back then, not a nerd. I liked being myself rather than being put in a mould. I became a decent caring man.

Would I get married in the church? I don't know. Would I baptise my kid(s)? I don't know.

Ahh right, the "Rebel"...

This sounds like it has more to do with how you were treated by your peers, then any dealings with a religious authority figure... At no time in your diatribe did you make mention of a Priest or Sister making you feel demeaned and worthless, it was just the resident bullies doing that.

I'm not sure where evolution or Darwin was a banned subject in HS, as when I was there (1992-1996), we had classes in Philosophy - which included everyone from Socrates to Marx - World Religions, higher sciences and maths, and one course specifically made by our HS that dealt with questioning religion (kind of a mix of Philosophy and World Religions). To me, it sounds like you were a Private School, based on the non-funding issue.

And really, what Educational or Religious group has come out and expressed open arms to Homosexuals? You won't hear Baptists or Protestants proclaiming that their "Path to Salvation is open!". They're just as virulent in their condemnation as the next guy, without the benefit of a big pointy hat.

I find most people who "rebel" against religion feel this need to belittle it, and the people supporting it, at every possible turn and opportunity they can find. I remember the first time I argued with my mother about going to Church, and we ended having a big row about it.. Took me a couple years to realize that the more I shouted and demeaned it, the harder their stance on me accepting it. I finally just said, "Forget it, I don't this crap", and quit arguing. I didn't go to Church, and simply said I have no wish to be a member of the Roman Catholic Church.

But hey, most people will just say I'm blowing smoke out of my ass...