What strategy is best to deal with Islam? (POLL)

[Noobtastic]

Nothing wrong with Islam. You can't deal with religion or ethnic minorities, unless you want to go the genocidal-route.

What we can do is end our protection of the Muslim world. Or at least, use our defense umbrella as a means to manipulate this leaders to promote reform, or in the least end support for violence against allies and our own soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Second, we can stop buying their oil and devote more time developing alternative energy technology.

Third, end our military support for threatening states. We've sold close to 100 billion in weapons to the Saudis. Now they have the most powerful military in the region, when not so long ago their military was OUR military.

We find ourselves going to war on behalf of the Saudis, as we did in Yemen in 2009, killing over 250 civilians, while the Saudis killed 6,500+.

Naturally the media is nowhere to be seen. Most libs probably didn't even know about scorched earth.

WE MUST adjust our relationship with the Muslim world. You can cut off relations because they'll just go to China, India, or Russia.

We must reduce their presence in the UN, recognize Saudi's infiltration of Western universities, and most importantly control immigration.

 

[Infohawk]

This Thread and your Generalities are ridiculous. Quite frankly you've missed the mark.

I love when people think open questions are ridiculous. Thanks for stopping by.

 

[Infohawk]

I'd say engagement on the level of dealing with China. Mostly that just means not going overboard with the political correctness and allowing relative morality to take hold. Sure, you can have the laws you want in your country, but don't expect us to say they're fine when we think they're barbaric or outdated. We should never be afraid to speak out about something we feel is wrong.

Otherwise you seem to think Islam is a real threat to the world. Just FYI from someone who knows a lot more about it than you: It's not. The odd successful terrorist aside, the vast majority of people who consider themselves Muslims also like capitalism, Hollywood and football. They're people like us. There's no giant lurking shadow to be afraid of.

Is it on the same level of global nuclear war? No? Does it cost thousands of lives? Yes. "The odd successful terrorist attack aside"? So you are okay with letting these happen as a matter of probability?

 

[Infohawk]

What's your plan for dealing with Muslims already here or Muslims that are not arabs that simply lie about their faith?

This thread is dumb, but here I am posting in it. Shame on me.

Citizens can be muslims. The US constitution applies. However, I think they should expect the kind of profiling that is already going on though. No new muslims is the idea. No visitors from Saudi Arabia, etc. I would basically stop all immigration and non-state visits from predominantly muslim countries.

What about people who lie? If you're willing to make a statement against your faith and you are coming from a non-muslim majority country (like Britain) I would imagine you could get in. (There's a reason the US is taking a tougher stance on British custom & immigration issues though.)

And as for illegal immigration from Mexico, you do understand that we share a massive border with Mexico right? It's a little different than Muslims who have to take a plane or boat to get here. Sure someone could go to Mexico, learn Spanish, go through the border illegally and then start shooting people in the US. However, a lot of the terrorists in the planning stages and not to mention the 9/11 terrorists have been here legally.

 

[Infohawk]

If nothing else I voted the minority yllus position, even if I think all options are deeply flawed.

That's a reasonable approach although it comes with calculated risks.

To some extent this thread seems based on the assumption that its the USA v Islam, and in the end only one will be left standing.

I don't assume that at all. My whole point is that both can exist separately. I just don't think Islam has shown that it mixes with any other culture / religion at all at this time in history. (It has in the past.) What creates all the problems is when the US interferes in the Muslim sphere and Muslims interfere into any other sphere.

 

[Infohawk]

WE MUST adjust our relationship with the Muslim world. You can cut off relations because they'll just go to China, India, or Russia.

This is an interesting point and probably the biggest problem with containment. Other countries are probably willing to deal with them. At the same time, I'm sure China takes a hard line on muslims in their country right now. But on the other hand trade isn't mutually exclusive from containment. The USSR and USA traded.

 

[KMFJD]

Mutual respect and understanding of each other's culture, and perhaps democracy in an Islamic world riddled by autocracy

 

[WhipperSnapper]

My strategy isn't an option. Teach reason. Spread the notion that reality is objective and that reason is man's means of knowledge. Teach people around the world how to use reason and to engage in critical thinking.

Give people the tools they need to recognize that their religion is irrational and lacks a foundation in reality. Of course, that would also encourage Christians to become atheist, so it's not going to happen.

 

[lsquare]

I'm a fan of aggressive containment. It worked for the USSR. Sure Islam is different but ultimately to harm the West, Muslims have to have to actually cross borders and oceans. We need to let muslims have dominion over their backwards corner of the world. The downside is we might have access to less oil, but that is something we have to come to terms with anyway. "We" fight muslims in proxy wars in border areas like Chechnya, Bosnia-Herz and sub-saharan Africa to let them know they can't expand without a fight.

I think the policy of engagement we have right now is unlikely to work and involves greater risk. Like with the USSR, there is more likely to be change if we let them collapse / fester from within as opposed to our current policy of intervention.

Do you realize how stupid your idea is? What about the millions of Muslims that are already living in the US and with US citizenship? What are you going to do about them?

Furthermore, there's nothing you or the US government can do about Islam anyways. Freedom of religion is part of the first amendment of the Constitution.

 

[lsquare]

Nothing wrong with Islam. You can't deal with religion or ethnic minorities, unless you want to go the genocidal-route.

What we can do is end our protection of the Muslim world. Or at least, use our defense umbrella as a means to manipulate this leaders to promote reform, or in the least end support for violence against allies and our own soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan.

We failed and military might alone will not convince a country to reform. We can't even get North Korea to reform let alone get the Muslim world to reform.

Second, we can stop buying their oil and devote more time developing alternative energy technology.

It takes time to develop the right technology to replace oil as the primary means to energy. You can't just stop buying oil. This will do great damage to the US economy. The goal of ending the import of foreign oil will take decades to achieve. If we adopt your plan now, then this economy will tank.

Third, end our military support for threatening states. We've sold close to 100 billion in weapons to the Saudis. Now they have the most powerful military in the region, when not so long ago their military was OUR military.

Obviously you don't understand the strategic significance of Saudi Arabia to the US. We need their oil and that's why we need to maintain good relations with them. Furthermore, by arming the Saudis, we are also having a strong ally in confronting the Iranians.

We find ourselves going to war on behalf of the Saudis, as we did in Yemen in 2009, killing over 250 civilians, while the Saudis killed 6,500+.

Naturally the media is nowhere to be seen. Most libs probably didn't even know about scorched earth.

WE MUST adjust our relationship with the Muslim world. You can cut off relations because they'll just go to China, India, or Russia.

We must reduce their presence in the UN, recognize Saudi's infiltration of Western universities, and most importantly control immigration.

You ever wonder why you don't work for the State Department? If so, those ideas of yours are why.

 

[Tom]

ban clothes

 

[Viditor]

Well with muslim extremists the people are generally the weapons. See 9/11.

Here you say "muslim extremists" (the KKK of Islam), whereas before you were talking about all of Islam...which are you referring to?

 

[Viditor]

Edit:
I would like to point out that saying that we should treat all Muslims the same is like saying we should treat anyone from the southern US as a member of the KKK...

 

[spacejamz]

My thoughts exactly...I'm assuming this is a joke.

Wonder if France, Switzerland, Denmark, the UK and other countries with recent 'Muslim' issues think this topic is a joke???

 

[Nemesis 1]

There is but one absolute truth and it covers everybody. Nobody can resist the Will of God because all opposition to His will is exactly how He decided. If Islam is the Will of God then nothing can contain it or stop it but if it is not it can't possibly win. Now that one and only absolute truth can be know by an individual then only that individual will know that he knows, except if there are others like him. But that one and only truth, if it is Love as I suspect it is, then it applies only to the individual who loves. He will love no matter what the world believes and they won't be able to stop him if it is the Will of God that we love.

No harm can come to a good person, in this life or the next. It is only the ego that has religion and the Lover has died to his ego.

You are amusing yet intrigueing at the same time , So close yet so very far away. Love can not exist without hate . For every right there is a wrong. For every day there is a night. Balance is were wisdom is stored control of natural forces is enlightenment.

 

[Jaskalas]

Keep them out of the US.

^ This. Which is containment.

 

[Jaskalas]

You Engage them as you can't Contain an Idea.

Islam is not altogether dissimilar from a foreign nationality. We have successfully in the past, by virtue of our nation's existence, managed to contain the ideas of other foreign nationalities to maintain our own nationality.

This is not that different.

 

[Moonbeam]

You are amusing yet intriguing at the same time , So close yet so very far away. Love can not exist without hate . For every right there is a wrong. For every day there is a night. Balance is were wisdom is stored control of natural forces is enlightenment.

My Dear Sir, what you describe is the delusion of duality, the eating of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge, the abstraction created by thought which is the dead past in the form of memory. Love and hate cannot coexist for if there is hate there is no love. It is not a matter of balance but the resolution of love and hate in higher understanding.

For the mind trapped in duality, love is a bargain, a deal that you make; 'I will love you so long as you conform to my expectations'. Bu this love you create hate, fear, and suspicion.

The real lover has disappeared from your world of delusion. He disappeared into his Beloved. The heart that loves God and the God of Love are one and the same. There is only love.

So what is this illusion of evil? It is the belief that words have abstract meaning, that one can create a sound in the air like bad and make it create a bad feeling. When you use words to say to a child that he has been bad, you have created evil where none existed, you have taught a child that he is worthless in your eyes and because he loves you unconditionally he will believe you are right. You are not forgiven because you are sinful but because you were never with sin.

Language creates a duality that isn't there. There is no good and evil. The question for you is can you bring thought to an end. Thought is language, memorized words, which contain emotions from the distant past. Words have killed your perfect unity of being. Can the mind return to silence? Can a mind stop thought and enter infinite being? Can you re-enter the Garden of Eden?

 

[Dr. Zaus]

So you're saying you support not fighting terrorism Moonbeam?

Or was your post about loving no matter what entirely unrelated to the topic of the thread?

 

[Moonbeam]

Islam is not altogether dissimilar from a foreign nationality. We have successfully in the past, by virtue of our nation's existence, managed to contain the ideas of other foreign nationalities to maintain our own nationality.

This is not that different.

It is no wonder you distrust a battle at the level of ideas. You have nothing to defend.

 

[Moonbeam]

So you're saying you support not fighting terrorism Moonbeam?

Or was your post about loving not matter what entirely unrelated to the topic of the thread?

Wat?

 

[Nemesis 1]

My Dear Sir, what you describe is the delusion of duality, the eating of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge, the abstraction created by thought which is the dead past in the form of memory. Love and hate cannot coexist for if there is hate there is no love. It is not a matter of balance but the resolution of love and hate in higher understanding.

For the mind trapped in duality, love is a bargain, a deal that you make; 'I will love you so long as you conform to my expectations'. Bu this love you create hate, fear, and suspicion.

The real lover has disappeared from your world of delusion. He disappeared into his Beloved. The heart that loves God and the God of Love are one and the same. There is only love.

So what is this illusion of evil? It is the belief that words have abstract meaning, that one can create a sound in the air like bad and make it create a bad feeling. When you use words to say to a child that he has been bad, you have created evil where none existed, you have taught a child that he is worthless in your eyes and because he loves you unconditionally he will believe you are right. You are not forgiven because you are sinful but because you were never with sin.

Language creates a duality that isn't there. There is no good and evil. The question for you is can you bring thought to an end. Thought is language, memorized words, which contain emotions from the distant past. Words have killed your perfect unity of being. Can the mind return to silence? Can a mind stop thought and enter infinite being? Can you re-enter the Garden of Eden?

Thought has no memory Thought was in the beginning and before beginning. You don't have thoughts yet. Only memories of thought. It is you who pose to know Gods nature by impling that God is not a duality. God created the natural universe from supernatural power, That implies God consider his creation . Which means God weighed the Good Against the Bad and Decided on Creation. Which means God is a duality

 

[Moonbeam]

Thought has no memory Thought was in the beginning and before beginning. You don't have thoughts yet. Only memories of thought. It is you who pose to know Gods nature by impling that God is not a duality. God created the natural universe from supernatural power, That implies God consider his creation . Which means God weighed the Good Against the Bad and Decided on Creation. Which means God is a duality

Everything you know I have forgotten. I peaked under the Beloved's dress and was knocked senseless. I am deaf dumb and blind to all else. You to your words and me to my bliss.

 

[Jaskalas]

It is no wonder you distrust a battle at the level of ideas. You have nothing to defend.

Thou art villain. To claim America is nothing to defend.

 

[Moonbeam]

Thou art villain. To claim America is nothing to defend.

Thou art as ignorant of the ideas of America as thou art ungrammatical.