What speed memory for Kaveri?

wabbitslayer

Senior member
Dec 2, 2012
533
1
76
Thinking about doing a 7850K build using an asrock a88x extreme6+ mobo; most things I've read say you should use the fastest memory you can, that it really makes a difference for APUs.

Anyone here have any experience and/or what memory are you using? I'm looking a set of 2x4gb gskill trident 2400, they aren't much more than the 2133...
 

NostaSeronx

Diamond Member
Sep 18, 2011
3,811
1,290
136
If you plan to use the iGPU use the fastest 1.35v memory you can find.

If you plan to just use the CPU get the highest capacity 1.35/1.5 memory you can find.
 

PG

Diamond Member
Oct 25, 1999
3,426
44
91
If 2400 isn't much more expensive than 2133 I say go for it. Just be aware that not all people are able to run 2400 without a NB voltage increase. If you don't feel comfortable going down that path, and I probably wouldn't go there either, then you may be limited to 2133.
 

NostaSeronx

Diamond Member
Sep 18, 2011
3,811
1,290
136
Why should he restrict himself based on memory voltage?
1.35v uses newer memory chips generally. Thus, he and others with 1.35v can shave picoseconds of delay if frequency is the same. Certain 1.5V DIMMs use 1.35v chips but it is very difficult to find out.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
22,928
13,000
136
1.35v uses newer memory chips generally. Thus, he and others with 1.35v can shave picoseconds of delay if frequency is the same. Certain 1.5V DIMMs use 1.35v chips but it is very difficult to find out.

I find that most of the 1.35v memory is binned for lower speeds, though. It may or may not overclock well, especially at elevated voltages (1.65v+). The highest speed bin I see on NewEgg for 1.35v DDR3 is DDR3-1866.

How will 1.35v DDR3-1600 (which seems common) fare against 1.65v DDR3-2400? Hard to say. Unless there is a low-voltage kit out there with rave reviews for its overclocking, I would hesitate to assume that all the low-voltage stuff will overclock well with some extra voltage.

To the OP, you should expect to use the DDR3-2133 setting. You will probably not be able to go past 105 mhz BCLK (or however it is labeled in your UEFI), so the best you will get is DDR3-2240 or so. At that point, you will want to focus on tightening timings. You may be able to use the DDR3-2400 settings, but you should prepare to relax timings a bit to get this to work if you buy a DDR3-2400 kit. Usually.
 

Soulkeeper

Diamond Member
Nov 23, 2001
6,736
155
106
I think this choice mostly comes down to personal preference.
Personally i'd opt for a quality 2133 set of memory, or a low voltage set unless money wasn't really a concern.
Also i'd choose a different motherboard
500x1000px-LL-b381d26e_11.PNG

From what i've read the GA-F2A88X-UP4 has the same vrm components as pictured on that Z87X-D3H (IR355x ICs)
singleversusmultiple.jpg

62035.png

There was a better picture comparing maybe a dozen boards, but the image is no longer online.
Again, these things are mostly personal preference and past experiences each person has had.
 
Last edited:

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
146
106
1.35v uses newer memory chips generally. Thus, he and others with 1.35v can shave picoseconds of delay if frequency is the same. Certain 1.5V DIMMs use 1.35v chips but it is very difficult to find out.

Recommending 1.35V to save a few 1/1000th of a ns is plain dumb. Assuming its even happending. You couldnt even benchmark that difference with syntethics with 2 decimals.

If he plan on using the IGP and gaming. The fastest memory within specs is the only way. GPUs dont care much about latency, more about pure bandwitdh.
 
Last edited:

Insert_Nickname

Diamond Member
May 6, 2012
4,971
1,695
136
If he plan on using the IGP and gaming. The fastest memory within specs is the only way. GPUs dont care much about latency, more about pure bandwitdh.

But the CPU portion of the chip does care... :)

Ideally for AMD memory controllers you'll want the tightest timings you can afford with the highest frequency you can afford. In short, you should prioritize timings over frequency for CPU performance. With the AMD memory controller timings matter a lot more then pure frequency.

I'm actually surprised none of the Trinity/Richland/Kaveri reviews hasn't stumbled on this.
 

wabbitslayer

Senior member
Dec 2, 2012
533
1
76
I got to wondering about latency issues last night...be interesting to see some benchmarks between 1866 cas 9 and 2400 cas 11, to see what matters more, latency for the CPU or bandwidth for the GPU.

Then again, this is all for a system for my son, so I probably should quit overthinking it, grab something off the QVL and not worry about it.

But still...


EDIT: Oh...and I'm all for lower voltage everything, but I can't find any higher speed 1.35v sticks anywhere
 
Last edited:

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
22,928
13,000
136
Soulkeeper: only reason I'd hesitate to recommend the UP4 is that the BIOS may still limit you to 960 mhz on the iGPU. If that is not an issue for the OP, then no big whoop.

As far as memory timings go, the iGPU should still be dependent on the IMC with respect to effective bandwidth. Tightening timings on K8 and K10.5 produced measured (for me, in Sandra) increases in available memory bandwidth, so I'm guessing Steamroller's IMC will behave the same way.

OP, I'd look at DDR3-2240 with the tightest timings you can get if you buy DDR3-2400 or lower. I'd look at DDR3-2520 with the tightest timings you can get if you buy DDR3-2600 or higher. I can't vouch for the 1.35v stuff other than to say that the days of overvolting/overclocking LV/ULV parts are mostly gone. If you can get to DDR3-2133 on inexpensive 1.35v DDR3-1600, more power to you, but I wouldn't count on it.

edit: some of that 1.35v memory can be pretty expensive considering what you actually get. Compare some DDR3-2400 to any of this 1.35v DDR3 and decide for yourself which kit you think will hit DDR3-2240 at the best timings.
 
Last edited:

PG

Diamond Member
Oct 25, 1999
3,426
44
91
But the CPU portion of the chip does care... :)

Ideally for AMD memory controllers you'll want the tightest timings you can afford with the highest frequency you can afford. In short, you should prioritize timings over frequency for CPU performance. With the AMD memory controller timings matter a lot more then pure frequency.

I'm actually surprised none of the Trinity/Richland/Kaveri reviews hasn't stumbled on this.

Corsair has a nice article on all this: http://www.corsair.com/en-us/blog/2014/february/understanding-kaveri
 
May 11, 2008
22,551
1,471
126
Just a question, at what clockspeed is the IMC of kaveri running ?

I have a richland (a10 6700) with a IMC running at 1600MHz. I noticed that setting memory clockspeed higher than the imc clockspeed did not give any improvements.

Another richland model of a fellow forum member running at higher clocks and with a higher imc clock of 1800MHz had (obviously) more memory bandwidth than i had with my 1600MHz model. My guess is that it is the IMC clock that determines the maximum usable memory clock.

I would not be surprised that if the IMC clock is 2133MHz for kaveri, then that will also be the best memory clockspeed for kaveri.

It makes sense then that to increase IMC clock, the baseclock has to be increased. And this is where the improvements come from when also increasing memory clockspeed.
Going higher than the imc clock is no use, i assume.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
22,928
13,000
136
The IMC is a part of the northbridge, and the stock NB speed for Kaveri is 1.8 ghz. The OP should be able to push it to 2 ghz without trouble. Anything beyond that seems to require going sub-zero, since the only 2.4 ghz NB I've seen on Kaveri was under phase.

Don't be fooled by speed ratings into thinking the IMC will have trouble servicing fast memory. DDR3 uses many "tricks" to run at effective speeds far above its actual speed. The speed rating you see on DDR3 is actually 8 times higher than the clockspeed of the RAM itself, never mind that running in dual-channel mode effectively doubles the bandwidth again. Furthermore, the IMC has tricks of its own to handle reads from/writes to memory far in excess of what you might think the IMC can handle.

The primary performance problem from a slow IMC on an AMD chip is the bandwidth/latency of the connection between the IMC and the cores. I suppose you could saturate the IMC if you underclocked it and ran some incredibly-high-speed memory, but that's not likely to happen.

If you were seeing no real improvements from running higher memory speeds, then it may have something to do with the fact that, often times, reaching higher memory clocks comes at the expense of timings. Such an adjustment should, in theory, allow higher bandwidth at the expense of equal-to-higher latency. AMD chips are usually (read: usually) not starved for bandwidth, but rather are starved for quick memory access (AMD cache tends to be slow), and this all falls at the feet of the IMC eventually.

So, when tuning an AMD chip for performance, some decent gains can be had from running the IMC at a higher clock speed and tightening the RAM timings, even if you have to give up a little bit of memory clock speed in the process.

When it comes to Kaveri (or any other APU), the iGPU IS starved for bandwidth, but it still has to deal with the IMC behavior which often produces higher effective bandwidth at tighter timings, so you have to balance between timings and clockspeed very carefully. My guess is, the IMC is still predominantly configured to serve a general-purpose CPU (such as the four Steamroller cores of Kaveri) rather than a GPU which can more-easily make effective use of large sequential reads/writes from/to memory.

If memory serves, sequential read/writes are not terribly latency-dependant if the controller is set up to facilitate them under high-latency conditions. AMD's IMC does not appear to be thusly configured.
 

Insert_Nickname

Diamond Member
May 6, 2012
4,971
1,695
136