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What say you? Abortions For or Against?

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Ape: I don't see myself as trying to control others lives. Far from it I am just of the opinion that no one has the right to take the life of an unborn child it is as simple as that. People can try an complicate the issue as much as they want with talk of it is my body and all that but ultimately it is still the killing of an unborn innocent no matter how you want to sugar coat it and that is flat out wrong in any situation.
 
(Jeez, now I know why religions don't allow pre-marital sex)
Oh darn... I really didn't want to get into such a debate, but I have to say something to those who are using the "it's their body" and "the government has no right to control someone's body even though it means aborting a child's birth" excuses. If this were true, why then are drugs and suicide illegal (yes, suicide is illegal, but in most cases psychiatric treatment is concidered "time served&quot😉? Both are done to only one's self and is a choice one makes for one's self, yet the gov. makes it illegal. That takes care of the "government can't interfere" argument, because they already are.
If you say that someone on drugs has thepotential of hurting and/or killing others, as many here are implying, then the argument "abortion is killing apotential life" becomes valid. It matters not, then, debating when a person becomes a person, since aborting a child is killing a potential child, just as someone using drugs has the potential of killing others.
Now, the whole thing about the woman not wanting the baby - well then she shouldn't have been doing something which sole purpose is procreation (and especially out of wedlock😉). And, it's not like you've never heard of "planned parenthood". The way I understand it and believe, making love is the act of a man and woman's pure, undeniable, and unconditional love for one another. The baby, then, becomes the product of that love. This is why even though I oppose abortion in general, I believe it is okay in cases of rape, abuse and incest - unless, and I know this is sick, if it were consensual. (No, I don't condone this, but if that's what they want...).
Ultimately, in cases of pure "choice", IMO the woman is just trying to get out of her "consequence". If she thinks she is old enough or is able to make her own choices concerning sex, then she is old enough to take the responsibility of her actions. (I put "consequence" in quotes because I'd never veiw a child as a bad thing.) For those who are going to say, "it takes two to tango" and the like, well, "it takes two for it to be consensual". If not, that would constitute rape, and therefore abortion, in my view, becomes an option. Notice I said "becomes", she could always just give the baby up for adoption. Otherwise, she knew what she was getting into, and so does HE. Men shouldn't be having sex either unless he also is willing to accept responsibility of a child.
In cases of an "accident" ie. slip, tear, rupture of the condom, my position of "man and woman's love for each other" applies. You should'nt be having sex if you don't have feelings this deep in the first place, eventhough you're being careful. "Being careful" doesn't make it right, and shouldn't be used as an excuse.
Even if everything isn't "happily ever after" after having a child and you decide you are just horrible at being a parent, then just give the child up for adoption, to people who will be able to give the kid a better life. As I understand it, adoption services screen applicants very carefully, so it's better to do this than to raise a child up in a broken home. Doing that will definately kill or really hamper any potential a child has. If you do love your child, you will understand this would be the best to do.
 
i am completely with wedesdo (did i spell it right? 🙂) on this one... by saying this i hope i am not offending anyone, but most people with family problem, adoption being one of them, i have encourtered seem to bear some sort of mental anguish, sometimes wishing they werent born at all. for one i dont belive an adopted kid is warranted an 'ordianry' life. again, a fetus is a fetus, a baby is a baby. until the baby is born, lets not call a fetus a baby.
as long as it aint abused to the point where people are heedless of safe sex, i have no problem with abortion at all. there is no moral issue involved here.
 
I don't like abortion, but I'm not against it. I think it's akoy to use it if it's going to ruin your life and as a biproduct the babies life. I don't think it's okey if you use it as a form of protection like condoms.

Use it wisely after all it's a living and growing life.

AoD 😉
 
depends on the situation. Also I think it is a mutal decision to be made, having a child is never 1 persons choice just like killing the child shouldnt be 1 persons choice.
 
What if the mother & father are in an argument? then its a 1 person decision, the mothers. Sucks that the father has no say, should the mother tell him off.
 
Whoever said the morning-after pill is illegal is an idiot. Also, it is not even an abortion pill. The morning-after pill (Preven) simply makes the uterus unstable and thus the reproductive cycle cannot begin. Now if you consider an egg and a sperm a human being I guess you can complain, but then you are just a fool.

Personally, I am against abortions in the moral sense but for abortion in the social sense.

I don't think it's right for someone to get rid of a life simply because they made a mistake. This is sending a wrong message to both young and old, that toying with life is acceptable.

However, I don't think it is healthy for our society to increase the number of unstable families, unwanted children, and crowded foster homes.

I would like to respond to those self-righteous members in this thread who boast that they have the answer and are on a mission to correct others by asking them to reconsider their opinion if they did not have the highly-influential political, religious, and social forces affecting their decisions.

For example, and this is just one example of many, those who say abortion is definately wrong because God says so should take a look at people who do not believe in God. Religion is not an answer, it is a question.

-mosdef
 


<< However, I don't think it is healthy for our society to increase the number of unstable families, unwanted children, and crowded foster homes. >>



Perhaps the State should move in and euthanise children in families deemed, unstable.
If family stability is the goal, perhaps this option should be added to the already legal, abortion.

🙂

 
Prohibiting abortion would be unlogical.

-There are children being born who have serious genetic defects, so that their life will be either painful or very short. Abortion in this case would be merely a deed of mercy.

-There are young girls (between 11 and 16) being raped quite reguarly. Some of them keep it secret until they can't hide it any longer out of shame. Forcing them to get a baby would be cruel and unjust since it would shatter their life.

Those two simple examples show us one thing:

Abortion should stay possible, although we shouldn't use it reguarly. It would make more sense to regulate the reproduction of Humans by only allowing sex when it's needed for reproduction.
 
I don't consider myself pro anything. I think this should not even be a government issue. It is private and personal and I don't think the gov't should have any say in something like this. Are we trying to change our Democracy into a more gov't controlled system?
 
MrPALCO, do not mince my words. I specifically seperated my opinion into moral and social. I did not list that elitest point of view under what I consider moral. However, it does make sense socially.

-mosdef
 


<< However, it does make sense socially >>



After we have stabilized families by the two prong strategy of abortion and euthanasia, perhaps we could broaden our scope to other trouble spots in society?

Care to offer any potential target areas?


🙂


 
Again, I say that what I say makes social sense but is immoral. Before I make any more comments I want you to refute this.

-mosdef
 
While I agree that abortion and euthanasia gives temporary relief (similar to a drug high) to senses overloaded by improper choices and Words, I believe it is not Just.

🙂
 
MrPalco > the day people stop raping and nobody will have serious genetic defects, maybe then we won't need abortion, but right now it would be crude and barbaric to refuse it when it's needed.
 
I believe that Methos1995 is way off base. How can you compare using drugs to arbortion. An abortion is something that is done to that person and affects that person only (and father/mother). Drugs can affect others that are around you. Someone having an abortion is not going to kill 5 people in a coinvenience store because they were strung out from not getting their &quot;high&quot;. I believe your point is not stable.
 


<< MrPalco > the day people stop raping and nobody will have serious genetic defects, maybe then we won't need abortion, but right now it would be crude and barbaric to refuse it when it's needed. >>



Is it &quot;crude and barbaric&quot; to allow a person to remain alive after he is crippled in a car accident?



<< How can you compare using drugs to arbortion. >>



Both provide temporary relief to the senses and emotions of a Man, overloaded by poor life &quot;choices&quot;.

🙂



 
Pro-life for me, i think abortions should be illegal unless the pregnacncy is physically endangering to the woman. Who gives someone the right to take another life, just because the baby is not wanted? Could the baby not be given up for adoption? I beleive in the right to life for ALL people, guess i'm just old-fashioned, but that's how i see it.
 
The comparison I am talking about is the comparison of the effects on others. The reason the gov't tries to control drugs is because of the effect is can have on multiple people.
 
Methos1995--



<< f this were true, why then are drugs and suicide illegal (yes, suicide is illegal, but in most cases psychiatric treatment is concidered &quot;time served&quot😉? >>



Suicide is illegal solely as a preventative. The government wants to send the message that they don't want anyone killing themselves. NO ONE has been prosecuted for this. It's useless to try and refute your argument against abortion with &quot;facts&quot; like this one.

Drugs are also a very different situation. I for one think our society would be better off if drugs were decriminalized (but that's a whole other thread, and it's been done already). Drugs are illegal simply because the gov. thinks that if they were legal, everyone would start doing them and we'd have a nation full of drug addicts. It's not really because you're going to kill someone else while you're high on crack. That might be considered a secondary reason, but it's certainly not the main one.

Therefore, this idea of abortion of killing a potential child doesn't really have much to back it up. No one can remember time spent in the womb (or even the first few years of life after birth), therefore one could argue that in the womb we aren't conscious, not aware of anything. Unfortunately, science doesn't have a consensus one way or ther other.

But if you say that it's wrong to kill a potential child.... technically the morning after pill is doing the same thing, except much earlier, when the embryo is still only a few cells. Do you see that as abortion also?

For someone who is so morally against abortion, it surprises me when it all of a sudden becomes OK to take that child's life if the mother was raped. Is it not still the needless slaughter of a defenseless child (I love how pro-lifers use such colorful and descriptive vocab)? Does the fact that a woman was raped make it okay to terminate a life? I can't give much credence to your views. On one hand you sanctify that a potential human life is, for all intents and purposes, a human life and that not one of us has a right to take away that life. Then, on the other hand, you say that when the sex isn't consensual, all of a sudden that baby's life is somehow less-important and it's OK to terminate that baby.

I just don't see how you could possibly hold those two views--it seems pretty hypocritical.

Let me surprise you and say that I agree with most of the rest of what you said. I absolutely advocate personal responsibility. We don't have enough of it in this world, and it's true in all aspects of our lives as well. Too often we want to blame something or someone else for our problems. The fat person will blame his genetics while shoving a twinkie in his mouth. The drug addict will blame society for making him turn to drugs for fulfillment, the absued child will blame her abuser for all her problems, and a pregnant woman will blame the long-departed father for her unwanted child.

People cop out of responsibilities all the time. Humans have so much more power than they acknowledge. If you're addicted to drugs, quit placing blame to make yourself feel better and accept responsibility for your life. Get help if you want it. The same with abused children who reinforce the vicious cycle of abuse. OK, you were abused, life is really unfair, blah blah blah, but don't blame all of your adult problems on it. Take responsibility for your own life and your problems and deal with them.

So in the same vein, I think women can be too quick to blame everything but themselves for an unwanted pregnancy (the father, the fact that she was drunk and didn't know what she was doing, the condom breaking, etc.). I think the world would be a much better place if every child was given the opportunity to live. Women have a responsibility for another life when they become pregnant, and getting an abortion is simply another case of shirking responsibility because it's the easiest thing to do.

To hop back on the other side of the fence though, I see abortion as a necessary evil. I won't condemn anyone who has one, and legal or not, they will ALWAYS be performed as long as unwanted pregnancies occur. It's fine for us to preach from our comfy computer chairs, but personally, I've never lived life as a woman. I don't know what it's like to be pregnant and without hope--neither do the rest of you. We can only speculate on what we think is correct, but none of us has the right to say to a woman that she cannot have control over her own body.

The world needs more compassion, not more condemnation.

l2c

 
<<Is it &quot;crude and barbaric&quot; to allow a person to remain alive after he is crippled in a car accident?>>

I don't see any connection whatsoever between this and abortion.

Someone who is crippled in a car accident should be given the option of euthanasia, which is a totally different topic.
Other differences: this person is able to reason, unlike an embryo, so this is actually the 'mother' when you compare it to abortion, i.e. this person is able to decide it for himself whether he wants to keep on living. No doctor will ever force him to die.

It isn't crude or barbaric to allow such a person to live it's his/her own choice. It is cruel to force such a person to keep on living while he or she doesn't want to.
 
I have noticed that a lot of people here, including those that have called themselves pro-choice, have stated that they feel that it is wrong for someone to abort for selfish reasons (i.e. convenience, unwanted change in lifestyle, unmarried, etc.). Rape, incest, and danger to the mother's life MAY account for about 10% of the current abortions that take place (I also think that 10% is a VERY generous estimate because I do not have actual statistics in front of me, though I honestly feel that the actual percentage is lower). That leaves 90% of abortions that fall into the convenience and birth control category. 1.6 million abortions, on average, are performed each year. That means that 1.44 million unborn are killed each year out of convenience alone (the woman made a bad choice in having sex and getting pregnant), based on the loose estimate that 10% fall into the rape, incest, etc. category. Why not make the woman accountable for her bad choice? Everyone else has to.

Does anyone know if tax money is used to supplement these procedures in ANY way? I, for one, would not be too crazy about having to pay for someone else's mistake while they get out of any responsibility in the matter. Maybe, if tax revenue is used in any form to support these procedures, the woman having the abortion can make additional financial restitution for making the wrong decision. After all, more than two-thirds of these women seeking abortions have jobs.

http://www.foxnews.com/fn99/national/abortion/abortionfacts.sml
 


<< I don't see any connection whatsoever between this and abortion. >>



Both end life.



<< Other differences: this person is able to reason, unlike an embryo, so this is actually the 'mother' when you compare it to abortion, i.e. this person is able to decide it for himself whether he wants to keep on living. >>



What if the person is in a coma?

🙂
 
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