What right does the US have to request that Arafat be removed from office?

[smp]

I have never seen any evidence that shows that Arafat is a supporter of terrorism.

Where in that statement do you gather that I support the man? Or for that matter, that I am against you Scipionix? This gangbang that is going on in here only shows the rabid hatred that is prevalent towards people who refuse to join a team. Why do you hate me? What is so terrible about my original post?

 

[smp]

For the record, I dont think you are a coward, nor do I hate you as you said before, I just think you're wrong. How do you know the information I get is skewed? Where are you getting you're unskewed news from?


Both of us are getting skewed news. I am on neither side. I have not once argued in this thread that my sources of information are more accurate or honest than anyone elses. It is the spread of false information that I am concerned with. It is the cultural playing feild that this war excercise is being carried out on that I want to understand. The things that I have noticed, regardless of my sources, are that young palestinians are blowing themselves up for the sole purpose of killing Israelis in the most terrible way possible, and that an organized army, one of the strongest in the world, is occupying a small and weak nation in retaliation for those bombings, killing innocent people. Innocent people are dying on all sides...
someone's sig reads;
Remember the World Trade Center
Yes, 3500 innocent people died, why? Because of blind rage and hate, similar to the kind that I feel directed at me in this thread and similar to the kind felt by so many Palestinians and Israelis. Is more blind rage and hate the answer to blind rage and hate?

 

[UltraQuiet]

Originally posted by: smp
I know a guy from Texas who would be using words like "little buddy" and "coward" right now. You're pretty lame smp, pretty lame.

How am I a coward? Because I speak my mind in a forum where the herd is of the same mentality, where information and skewed reporting is taken as truth on both sides of the argument? Because I refuse to take sides for the sake of belonging? I guess I would be a tough guy if I jumped on your bandwagon and swore to live and die by the gun, right?

From your post I gather that you shoot first and ask questions later, why talk at all then? Why post at all? Go out and shoot some people, show me how tough you are. Show me the strength of your convictions and show me how loyal you are to other men's agendas and the promise of a strong nation under god. Just like the palestinian suicide bombers, just like Sharon's puppets killing kids in the street. Go out and be tough like them, I don't care for that kind of toughness. Call me a coward all you want.

Well let's clear this up since reading comprehension doesn't seem to be your strong suit. I said I know a guy who would call you a coward. I didn't call you a coward. The reason that guy would call you a coward is because you made a statement here and then when someone called you on it you said you wouldn't discuss it any further. See the difference? Good. Tex is gone now so you're safe.


Now lets get into the second part of your babbling. I don't have to shoot anyone to prove how tough I am. I don't have to prove anything at all, certainly not to you. That kind of toughness that you don't care for, well that's a kind of toughness you obviously have no concept of. It's a job left for men, little boys like you need to stay at home behind the keyboard.

I am still waiting for you to defend your statement that Arafat is not a terrorist. That argument ought to be good for another laugh.

 

[Scipionix]

Originally posted by: smp Both of us are getting skewed news. I am on neither side. I have not once argued in this thread that my sources of information are more accurate or honest than anyone elses. It is the spread of false information that I am concerned with. It is the cultural playing feild that this war excercise is being carried out on that I want to understand. The things that I have noticed, regardless of my sources, are that young palestinians are blowing themselves up for the sole purpose of killing Israelis in the most terrible way possible, and that an organized army, one of the strongest in the world, is occupying a small and weak nation in retaliation for those bombings, killing innocent people. Innocent people are dying on all sides...
someone's sig reads;
<STRONG>Remember the World Trade Center</STRONG>
Yes, 3500 innocent people died, why? Because of blind rage and hate, similar to the kind that I feel directed at me in this thread and similar to the kind felt by so many Palestinians and Israelis. Is more blind rage and hate the answer to blind rage and hate?

There you go again, saying that because we disagree with you, we hate you and are no different from the men who killed 3,000 Americans. Again your posts seem to come down to the fact that you have a very thin skin and can't debate facts and arguments without accusing others of attacking you.

 

[McPhreak]

Originally posted by: Magicthyse

Originally posted by: McPhreak
I think the fact that we provide financial aid indirectly to the Palestinians allows us to request that Arafat be removed from office. Isn't this what politics is all about?

Also, when the Israelis smash up places built with our freaking tax Euros, I think we are allowed to request that Sharon be removed from office!

Sure. We could be we don't. I don't get what the purpose of your statment is... If we support someone financially, we have the right to request something from them. If it's the removal of someone from office, so be it. That's what politics is. "You scratch my back..."

 

[Balthazar]

Originally posted by: rickn

What right does Arafat have to lead a group of people by encouraging terrorism?

He is the chosen leader of the Palestinian people, that is what right he has. I've never seen any proof that directly links Arafat to terrorism. White man subjugated entire races into slavery, so save your little quips about terrorism for someone who buys it.

We have the bigger stick in the playground, that is what gives us the right. Lets not kid ourselves here... In world politics there isn't a set of rules

And the bully usually gets stabbed in the back eventually. We interfere in the internal affairs of other countries way to much. Warmongers.

Of course when the president of the US says something, you never argue with a man who's response will be "you and what army?"

There is so much mindeless drivel floating around here....
In case you aren't up on it lemme give you some info.
One side of this is centered around people in the mid-east and elsewhere who say we interfere to much, so they threaten to attack us.
Now the other side, they say we don't get involved enough, so they threaten to attack us.
Then the other side is places like China, who say "hehe, yeah, as long as we get alot of money from your econ. we don't have TOO many problems with you guys, but we definitely still dislike you." then theres Russia, who wants to get in the middle of it because their old gaurd pride makes them think they are a lot stronger than they REALLY are.

Then you have the worst group of them all....
US....the american people....by far the bitchiest group of people on the face of this screwed up little planet.
We bitch and moan when gas prices go up above $1.25 (and dont dare, not a signle one of you tell me you have never complained at least to yourself about it), so they try to protect our interests in the oil market without getting drawn full in, because then we say "our gov. is going too far", then if we dont step i on occassion and kick someones ass we all go "hey, why isn't our gov. doing anything?".

The simple truth is that no matter WHAT the government does in respect to this situation they will never, EVER, in a million years appease even a QUARTER of the population of this country.
So yes, money does drive alot of their decisions, because money also drives the appeasement of all of us in this country.
The cheaper the oil, the happier we are.
So why don't we all just drop the BS pretenses and quit acting like the US is so evil.
I'd say taking a journalist hostage, beheading him, and sending his wife the friggin' wideo tape is pretty screwed up. And if the Mid-East wants to keep trying to drag us all into this, then I saw we lay down the law.
Isreal has come up with QUITE a few nice advances in technology and medicine over the years. And that, to me, is what sets them apart from the rest of the mid-east.

Wtf comes out of Iran? NOTHING
Wtf comes out of Syria? NOTHING
Wtf comes out of Iraq, Palestine, Lybia, Sudan, and half the other mid-east countries?
NOTHING, nothing but war, hate and a bunch of barbaric BS.

If you don't want to contribute to advancing the human race, then be ready to get your ass handed to you when you try to tear down what the rest of us build.

Be productive or be gone....

Now, can we please have a few less threads on this topic, it's just the same old crap over and over....so tiresome....

 

[Balthazar]

Originally posted by: smp

Originally posted by: rickn

What right does Arafat have to lead a group of people by encouraging terrorism?

He is the chosen leader of the Palestinian people, that is what right he has. I've never seen any proof that directly links Arafat to terrorism. White man subjugated entire races into slavery, so save your little quips about terrorism for someone who buys it.

We have the bigger stick in the playground, that is what gives us the right. Lets not kid ourselves here... In world politics there isn't a set of rules

And the bully usually gets stabbed in the back eventually. We interfere in the internal affairs of other countries way to much. Warmongers. Of course when the president of the US says something, you never argue with a man who's response will be "you and what army?"

I have never seen any evidence that shows that Arafat is a supporter of terrorism. I think that all war is terrorism, therefore Sharon is a terrorist too .. and so are Bush I and Bush II.

Somebody, anybody, please smack this guy....if you know him, if he lives on your street, please, smack him....

You know, you are SOOOOOO right, what we really need in this conversation is some more of that "all war is terrorism" crap.
SIMPLE grasp on words says that terrorism means one thing, and war means another thing, so that literalistic BS GARBAGE is just dumb and serves no valid point other than to obfuscate the point further....

 

[Stojakapimp]

The United States is a hegemonic power. With this power comes responsibility to watch over and keep other countries in line. When we see a problem, we are the only ones with enough power to help it so we must also act. It's that simple...Bush was just trying to implement the US's duty.

BTW, this is my first post

 

[justint]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
this is an improvement from previous US policy, in which we'd just arrange for him to die somehow.

and arafat is hardly a democratically elected leader. i bet the upcoming elections will be more of a democratic sham than castro's. castro is elected alright, by himself, and himself alone.

i don't see why bush can't request his removal. theres no rule against it.

Arafat say what you will about him was democratically elected. He won a lanslide election victory with the eyes of the whole world on the election process and observers to make sure it was fair. Whether or not it was a real contest or not is another question, but he is about as democratically elected as they come.

 

[rickn]

I didnt realize that Israel had to prove to you that he's a terrorist. Anyone with a reasonable amount of intelligence would know that he is, so I can understand why you dont. My deepest sympathies.

and the same people(not you in particular) who slam other posters of this forum because they don't provide a link to a new story. And we are suppose to believe all propaganda on principle? I am not so dumb that I can't figure out that Arafat turns a blind eye to it. Whether or not he actually puts his seal of approval, I'd want hard facts, and not from Israel.

The United States is a hegemonic power.

Hegemonic policies will do nothing but further isolate us.

 

[Stojakapimp]

Hegemonic policies will do nothing but further isolate us.

further isolate us? Meddling in some other nations' problems doesn't sound like an isolationist move to me.

 

[Larvae]

good point man, we shouldnt be violatin the civil rights of guys like hitler, saddam and arafut

 

[smp]

I am still waiting for you to defend your statement that Arafat is not a terrorist. That argument ought to be good for another laugh.

My original statement was;
I have never seen any evidence that shows that Arafat is a supporter of terrorism.
So .. tell me where I said he wasn't a supporter. Just because I'm not convinced in one way, doesn't mean that I'm convinced in the other. Let me rephrase it for you then since you like to put words in my mouth...
I have never seen any evidence that shows that Arafat is a supporter of terrorism and I have never seen evidence that says he is not.
Basically, this means that I don't think we, or anyone should be ousting him from power. I'm with the camp that thinks the palestinians should decide. If they vote in some asshole who ends up getting them all killed, well, that is their fate, that is what they chose democratically right? You make your bed you lie in it. I think they are perfectly capable of making their own decision, and if it's the death of them then at least they chose their own fate and they can blame no one but themselves for it.

Well let's clear this up since reading comprehension doesn't seem to be your strong suit. I said I know a guy who would call you a coward. I didn't call you a coward. The reason that guy would call you a coward is because you made a statement here and then when someone called you on it you said you wouldn't discuss it any further. See the difference? Good. Tex is gone now so you're safe.
If you're referring to Texmaster, I don't fear him. I have had heated debates with him before and I agree with him more than you probably imagine.

There you go again, saying that because we disagree with you, we hate you and are no different from the men who killed 3,000 Americans. Again your posts seem to come down to the fact that you have a very thin skin and can't debate facts and arguments without accusing others of attacking you.
What do you disagree with? You seem to be under the impression that I am an Arafat supporter, I don't see how I communicated that to you, but if that is what you have read out of my one liner, then you have misunderstood.
I have a problem with you attacking me, yes. I haven't been hostile in this thread at all, but I have felt much hostility aimed my way. I just want to know what hostility has to do with anything? We can't discuss things without getting hostile?
My complaints about hostility are not due to me being upset, I could care less. It just doesn't seem to serve any purpose, at least not anything progressive.

 

[rickn]

Originally posted by: Stojakapimp

Hegemonic policies will do nothing but further isolate us.

further isolate us? Meddling in some other nations' problems doesn't sound like an isolationist move to me.

It does isolate us, directly and indirectly. Many present and former world leaders have spoken out against Bush Administration and his labeling of Iraq, North Korea, and Iran in particular, as an Axis of Evil, and that does create isolation. Bush's Axis of Evil plan is rather simple. First off, Iraq was included because of impending milatary action. Iran was included to create dissent within the population, which is very young, and growing very tired of their isolation. The US Gov't would love nothing more than to see the Islamic system there removed so they can get their hands on the 5 billion barrels of oil reserves that Iran has, not to mention the US bruised ego from 1979 still hasn't healed. North Korea was branded that to get dialogue between the north and south going again. So, we meddle in the affairs of Iran, and Russia ignores us, China ignores us, most of the EU ignores us. That is isolation. You know what the labeling of Iran has got us so far? Expanded bilateral and economic ties between Iran. Russia and many EU countries. Hegemonic policies are not always the solution. And when they don't work, we warmonger. And yes, I am a pessimist, always looking on the dark side :Q

 

[Random Variable]

Arafat say what you will about him was democratically elected. He won a lanslide election victory with the eyes of the whole world on the election process and observers to make sure it was fair.

In the words of the James Woosley, the former Director of the CIA, "Arafat was essentially 'elected' the same way Stalin was, but not nearly as democratically as Hitler, who at least had actual opponents.' Arafat?s 'opponent' was a prop."