What makes a country "great"?

[MotF Bane]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: BarrySotero
The US was great because it had a core of people with high character and values. It was these people that led way to revolution, emancipation, defense vs Hitler etc. Economic and military superiority grew out of this rugged individualism and pursuit of virtue (the "pursuit of happiness" phrase in the declaration of Independence was using the Aristotelian meaning of happiness as the pursuit of virtue - it never meant people should be free to degenerate into porn, drugs and rick-n-roll"). Now the US is going in reverse and the average citizen is a spiritual pygmy as far as character goes. So we are collapsing into crap via intentionally down-bred mediocrity.

You're like the perfect caricature of every conservative. Never stop posting

This dude can supply you with ammunition for years.

 

[MotF Bane]

Originally posted by: cubeless
what's great about america is that we allow illiterate, non-productive people to vote... it ensures that we'll the kind of governance that will carry us on for another couple hundred years...

and isn't hubris that dip they make out of garbanzo beans? the gas that stuff gives you will definitely ruin a civilization...

Hubris is Greek for overconfidence.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: BarrySotero
The US was great because it had a core of people with high character and values. It was these people that led way to revolution, emancipation, defense vs Hitler etc. Economic and military superiority grew out of this rugged individualism and pursuit of virtue (the "pursuit of happiness" phrase in the declaration of Independence was using the Aristotelian meaning of happiness as the pursuit of virtue - it never meant people should be free to degenerate into porn, drugs and rock-n-roll"). Now the US is going in reverse and the average citizen is a spiritual pygmy as far as character goes. So we are collapsing into crap via intentionally down-bred mediocrity.

In fact, that's exactly what it meant. And the phrase 'pursuit of happiness' in DoI referred to the classical liberal inherent right to pursue one's own chosen occupation (for better or worse), and not be bound by birth to some kind of guild or caste as was common in England and the rest of Europe at the time.

As a believer in liberty, I see your socially-repressive fascist ideology as little different than some economically-repressive communist ideology. Like them, you're nothing more than a petty tyrant in your own mind for our own good. You are less than mediocrity, unable or unwilling to fix yourself and blaming the world for your own personal failures.

 

[Praxis1452]

A country is great because it is powerful.

 

[BarrySotero]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: BarrySotero
The US was great because it had a core of people with high character and values. It was these people that led way to revolution, emancipation, defense vs Hitler etc. Economic and military superiority grew out of this rugged individualism and pursuit of virtue (the "pursuit of happiness" phrase in the declaration of Independence was using the Aristotelian meaning of happiness as the pursuit of virtue - it never meant people should be free to degenerate into porn, drugs and rock-n-roll"). Now the US is going in reverse and the average citizen is a spiritual pygmy as far as character goes. So we are collapsing into crap via intentionally down-bred mediocrity.

In fact, that's exactly what it meant. And the phrase 'pursuit of happiness' in DoI referred to the classical liberal inherent right to pursue one's own chosen occupation (for better or worse), and not be bound by birth to some kind of guild or caste as was common in England and the rest of Europe at the time.

As a believer in liberty, I see your socially-repressive fascist ideology as little different than some economically-repressive communist ideology. Like them, you're nothing more than a petty tyrant in your own mind for our own good. You are less than mediocrity, unable or unwilling to fix yourself and blaming the world for your own personal failures.

"Happiness" as used in DoI denoted a condition independent of (but not exclusive of) material circumstances. This article bit captures things nicley:

Locke wrote:

" 'The necessity of pursuing happiness [is] the foundation of liberty. As therefore the highest perfection of intellectual nature lies in a careful and constant pursuit of true and solid happiness; so the care of ourselves, that we mistake not imaginary for real happiness, is the necessary foundation of our liberty. The stronger ties we have to an unalterable pursuit of happiness in general, which is our greatest good, and which, as such, our desires always follow, the more are we free from any necessary determination of our will to any particular action, and from a necessary compliance with our desire, set upon any particular, and then appearing preferable good, till we have duly examined whether it has a tendency to, or be inconsistent with, our real happiness: and therefore, till we are as much informed upon this inquiry as the weight of the matter, and the nature of the case demands, we are, by the necessity of preferring and pursuing true happiness as our greatest good, obliged to suspend the satisfaction of our desires in particular cases.'

Just the ideas that inspired our intellectual Founders were primarily European imports, so that defining American phrase, ?the pursuit of happiness,? is not native to our shores. Furthermore, as the quotation from Locke demonstrates, ?the pursuit of happiness? is a complicated concept. It is not merely sensual or hedonistic, but engages the intellect, requiring the careful discrimination of imaginary happiness from ?true and solid? happiness. It is the ?foundation of liberty? because it frees us from enslavement to particular desires.

The Greek word for ?happiness? is eudaimonia. In the passage above, Locke is invoking Greek and Roman ethics in which eudaimonia is linked to aretê, the Greek word for ?virtue? or ?excellence.? In the Nicomachean Ethics, Aristotle wrote, ?the happy man lives well and does well; for we have practically defined happiness as a sort of good life and good action.? Happiness is not, he argued, equivalent to wealth, honor, or pleasure. It is an end in itself, not the means to an end. The philosophical lineage of happiness can be traced from Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle through the Stoics, Skeptics, and Epicureans.

Jefferson admired Epicurus and owned eight copies of De rerum Natura (On the Nature of Things) by Lucretius, a Roman disciple of Epicurus. In a letter Jefferson wrote to William Short on October 13, 1819, he declared, ?I too am an Epicurean. I consider the genuine doctrines of Epicurus as containing everything rational in moral philosophy which Greece and Rome have left us.? At the end of the letter, Jefferson made a summary of the key points of Epicurean doctrine, including:

Moral.?Happiness the aim of life.
Virtue the foundation of happiness.
Utility the test of virtue.

Properly understood, therefore, when John Locke, Samuel Johnson, and Thomas Jefferson wrote of ?the pursuit of happiness,? they were invoking the Greek and Roman philosophical tradition in which happiness is bound up with the civic virtues of courage, moderation, and justice. Because they are civic virtues, not just personal attributes, they implicate the social aspect of eudaimonia. The pursuit of happiness, therefore, is not merely a matter of achieving individual pleasure. That is why Alexander Hamilton and other founders referred to ?social happiness.?

The Surprising Origins and Meaning of the ?Pursuit of Happiness?
http://hnn.us/articles/46460.html

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: BarrySotero
The Surprising Origins and Meaning of the ?Pursuit of Happiness?
http://hnn.us/articles/46460.html

Interesting article. Have you read this other one on the same site by the same author?

While we're playing the Founding Fathers game, there is one quote from Jefferson which I will never forget. In a letter to Dr. Benjamin Rush during the heated election of 1800, he said, "They fear me, and it is well that they do so, for I have sworn upon the altar of Almighty God eternal hostility to every tyranny over the mind of men." By 'they,' he was referring to the Anglican church.

The social aspect referred to is economic, not religious as you would pretend it. Good morals are good business, which has nothing to do with your paleo-moralistic crusade against 'porn, drugs and rock-n-roll' (all of which BTW are actually good for business).

 

[fallout man]

Old Country Motherfucking Buffet.

Colored folk eat in the back, and that's right on track, Jack.

 

[fallout man]

dp

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
Would somebody pulleeze help Barry down off his high horse?

He is projecting again. Call Moonie and the Self-Hate Police.

My tendency is to assume Occam's Razor in instances like his. Since it is impossible to credit that anybody could be so completely absurd as he is and be serious about it, we have to look for other explanations. My theory is that he works for the NASA to collect information on people who like his thinking so they can be watched and rendered harmless in need be.

Of course self haters have a deep need for attention, feeling as they do that they don't really exist without someone else noticing them, and negative attention is as good as positive attention in this regard.

But I should warn you about calling on me to critique this guy because in many many ways we agree and you would as likely think me as big a nut as you do him. I also believe America is undergoing a moral collapse into porn, drugs and rick-n-roll. We see it differently, of course, but with the same result. Porn exists because people can't feel love. People destroy their lives because they are trying to avoid their inner pain. I am not so much anti rock as I am anti rap, the ho message it contains, the hate and violence it promotes and worships. Music is great, so long as it isn't an escape from reality or a deterrent to getting a good education, etc. Music is like a religion for many. I believe that the purpose of life is to live and that living isn't possible without self knowledge, and self knowledge, the desire to have it, is a part of good character.

So I am every bit the moral prick that BS is, but he strikes me as full of blame and full of pointing fingers. The only person I blame for the disaster that is this world is me. I am honest and he is not. The kingdom of heaven is within. If His will were my will the world would be perfect.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: BarrySotero
The US was great because it had a core of people with high character and values. It was these people that led way to revolution, emancipation, defense vs Hitler etc. Economic and military superiority grew out of this rugged individualism and pursuit of virtue (the "pursuit of happiness" phrase in the declaration of Independence was using the Aristotelian meaning of happiness as the pursuit of virtue - it never meant people should be free to degenerate into porn, drugs and rock-n-roll"). Now the US is going in reverse and the average citizen is a spiritual pygmy as far as character goes. So we are collapsing into crap via intentionally down-bred mediocrity.

What's great about America is that we don't elect weak pukes like BarrySotero to lead.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: BarrySotero
The US was great because it had a core of people with high character and values. It was these people that led way to revolution, emancipation, defense vs Hitler etc. Economic and military superiority grew out of this rugged individualism and pursuit of virtue (the "pursuit of happiness" phrase in the declaration of Independence was using the Aristotelian meaning of happiness as the pursuit of virtue - it never meant people should be free to degenerate into porn, drugs and rock-n-roll"). Now the US is going in reverse and the average citizen is a spiritual pygmy as far as character goes. So we are collapsing into crap via intentionally down-bred mediocrity.

What's great about America is that we don't elect weak pukes like BarrySotero to lead.

Actually, we do, and it sucks.

 

[ahurtt]

Originally posted by: fallout man
Old Country Motherfucking Buffet.

Colored folk eat in the back, and that's right on track, Jack.

BarrySotero said: "Now the US is going in reverse and the average citizen is a spiritual pygmy as far as character goes. So we are collapsing into crap via intentionally down-bred mediocrity."

Case in point.
This means you.