skyking
Lifer
- Nov 21, 2001
- 22,791
- 5,957
- 146
Capt Caveman
Lifer
- Jan 30, 2005
- 34,543
- 651
- 126
If you were shocked by static electricity, it was in the tens of thousands of volts range, not hundreds.
I've also been shocked by 120V several times, but its always a wake up call, and each time could have been fatal. It really doesn't take much current in the right place to make your heart go, "WTF?".
I've also been shocked by 120V several times, but its always a wake up call, and each time could have been fatal. It really doesn't take much current in the right place to make your heart go, "WTF?".
I could die from an anvil falling from the sky while trying to put in the attachment.Originally posted by: biggestmuff
Dude, do it yourself. What can go wrong!?
Seriously though, I'm planning on finding a contractor to do this, mostly because I don't feel like dealing with it.
This discussion is also moot because the power line is 240V, which I don't think is safe. For the record though, I simply don't agree that its stupid to work with an insulated 120V line (even with the risk of cracks in the insulation).
MikeyIs4Dcats
Lifer
- Nov 5, 2001
- 18,366
- 3
- 0
Yup...I've been shocked by 120 several times, and my brother once told me a story about working on his dryer outlet and basically next thing he knew he was laying across the hall. You can dance with the devil but it only takes that one time when the planets align just right...
I've watched plenty of licensed electicians work on live panels and circuits. They tend to keep one hand in their pocket to minimize the chance of death if they make a mistake and touch a live conductor. That's one key, if you touch with one hand, reflexively your other hand would often latch onto the panel or other good ground immediately. If you keep that hand in your pocket, you may be able to avoid that reflex and it may save your life. The soles of your shoes make much better insulators than your other hand. You still might get cooked, but your odds of dying are lower.
People that KNOW hat they are doing make mistakes and get hurt and killed. But at least that's their job. And they have training to minimize that chance.
MikeyIs4Dcats
Lifer
- Nov 5, 2001
- 18,366
- 3
- 0
Originally posted by: jthg
I could die from an anvil falling from the sky while trying to put in the attachment.Originally posted by: biggestmuff
Dude, do it yourself. What can go wrong!?
Seriously though, I'm planning on finding a contractor to do this, mostly because I don't feel like dealing with it.
This discussion is also moot because the power line is 240V, which I don't think is safe. For the record though, I simply don't agree that its stupid to work with an insulated 120V line (even with the risk of cracks in the insulation).
That was our point...you didn't even know the line voltage.
I concede that. But I did realize it myself about 30 sec. after making that post.
And of course you could say that that would have been too late if I hadn't been discussing it on this forum.
I think its silly all these people saying "its the amps that kill you" and crap like that. The OP was right on with what he said, the voltage and the current are directly proportional to each other. I know people like to act smart by pointing out instances like static electricity and Van DeGraff generators with 10kV+ that won't kill you, but thats because there isn't enough energy there to supply a serious current (at least not for more than a tiny fraction of a second). However, when we are talking about power systems here there is more than enough energy available from the grid. We are talking about 10mA to kill you and every wire in your house is designed to carry several orders of magnitude more current then that. So the current actually flowing through you body will be based almost entirely on the voltage of the source and the resistance of your body. There really is no need to complicate it any further then that.
No one's been killed by a 12V car battery, but I'm pretty sure people have been killed by the starter motor. (That's just hearsay, but I've definitely been shocked by smaller motors)Originally posted by: Eli
Nobody has ever been killed by a 12V automotive battery, for example, and if they were it was a freak accident... Or they were getting freaky. :Q
I woke up this morning and realized my own stupidity... at not being able to end the "it's too dangerous to touch the power line" discussion with a single post. Never try to debate at 3:30am...
Touching an insulated power line is no more dangerous than touching the power cord of any household appliance. The chance of there being a crack in the power line insulation is no more than (probably much less than) the chance of there being a crack in the insulation of some old power cord. 120V or 240V, it doesn't matter. Plenty of countries have 240V running through cheap power cords.
The only significant difference between an indoors power cord and the power line outside is that one's outside your house's circuit breakers and carries far more current. None of that matters though because you get electrocuted by milliamps and the circuit breaker won't even notice. (by outside the house, I mean the segment before the transformer on the the pole.)
Touching an insulated power line is no more dangerous than touching the power cord of any household appliance. The chance of there being a crack in the power line insulation is no more than (probably much less than) the chance of there being a crack in the insulation of some old power cord. 120V or 240V, it doesn't matter. Plenty of countries have 240V running through cheap power cords.
The only significant difference between an indoors power cord and the power line outside is that one's outside your house's circuit breakers and carries far more current. None of that matters though because you get electrocuted by milliamps and the circuit breaker won't even notice. (by outside the house, I mean the segment before the transformer on the the pole.)
They made it pretty clear that they don't want to put in an attachment. I'll call again to ask.
Beware
Even electricians get the power company to kill power from the transformer when work is required to be done on the drop.
An arch can occur from the slightest crack in the insulation with enough amperage to kill.
Don't risk life for something like this.
DrPizza
Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
The amount of current going through the body is dependent on the resistance of the human body. jthg was absolutely correct, and BrownTown pointed it out as well. For what it's worth though - 120V has killed more people than any other voltage. i.e. Only an idiot doesn't respect that high of a potential difference.
There are plenty of electricians ("old-timers" who do exactly that - they grab each wire, one at a time, to see which is hot. They rely on the high resistance of the skin, as well as the resistance of their boots, etc., to not "complete the circuit". I find the experience rather unpleasant.
That's not quite the reason for GFCI protected outlets; it if was the reason, all outlets would be protected. There's an increased risk of electric shock in wet locations, especially due to the decreased resistivity of wet skin. And, in wet locations, there are more paths to ground. If the hot wire was in contact with the metal in an appliance, it would result in a tripped breaker or blown fuse. If the neutral wire was in contact with the metal in an appliance, the current would still be limited by the resistance of the appliance and no fuse would be tripped as the path now included the ground wire. The GFCI compares the resistance of the neutral and hot - if they differ, the circuit is broken. In the latter case where the neutral is in contact with the metal of the appliance (or somehow a path is completed to the person) then the person acts in series with the appliance, current is limited by the resistance of the appliance (plus the added resistance of the person), and the circuit can *easily* be completed through the water & drain pipe. There can be enough current through the person to kill a person. (on 2nd thought, it's not exactly a series circuit, as there still would be a current in the neutral wire. The person's actually in parallel to the neutral wire; I'm not drawing a circuit diagram though.)
I think they're talking about the possibility of touching both wires at once, and in such a way as to go through the trunk of your body.
skyking
Lifer
- Nov 21, 2001
- 22,791
- 5,957
- 146
you guys are all over-thinking this. By the desciption, the line itself is undamaged.
The strike plate with insulator is ripped out of the wall.
All the OP has to do is install a new anchor point.
He does not need to touch or mess with the wire.
Once he installs the new anchor point, the power company will do the difficult part of re-tensioning the line and hanging it up.
Then call the power company FTW!
The strike plate with insulator is ripped out of the wall.
All the OP has to do is install a new anchor point.
He does not need to touch or mess with the wire.
Once he installs the new anchor point, the power company will do the difficult part of re-tensioning the line and hanging it up.
No electrician needed for this. OP, get someone with the hammerdrill and knowledge and a proper ladder, go to a local electrical supply house for the anchor, and put it up. Move it over a few inches to get new holes if you need to.
Then call the power company FTW!
alkemyst
No Lifer
- Feb 13, 2001
- 83,769
- 19
- 81
Originally posted by: jthg
Well, it's completely insulated at the attachment point. Besides... its only 120V, not like 240V in some countries
Anyways, I'll start calling around on Monday.
Thanks for the replies.
Edit: Actually, what I said is wrong. Since the power coming into a home is 3 phased, you could potentially get 240V.
WTF...120V or not it's at full amps. You'd have a likely chance of dying from that...
please don't give advice on things that you KNOW NOTHING ABOUT.
OP, you need an electrician. You obviously do not have the skillset to accomplish this safely.
It should not be that expensive.
i think the don't touch with both hands was suppose to be a joke. at least, i hope so...
I think the issue was he was considering doing it all himself, which delved into the whole argument of safety.
What does full amps have to do with anything. You can die from milliamps - which means that you can just as easily die from touching the power cord of your computer.
It's right to recommend not messing with exposed 120/240V wires, but it's baseless to recommend not touching insulated 120/240V wires.
FYI, the line that runs down the street is 15kV. The transformer outside your house drops it down to 220V and will supply around 200A minimum, unless your house is really old. I'm not sure if the transformer has a fuse or not. At that scale, fuses aren't cheap.
Are thinking about whether a fuse would save you? It won't because getting electrocuted doesn't draw that much current.
Rubycon
Madame President
- Aug 10, 2005
- 17,768
- 485
- 126
Get a pro - the homeowner has NO BUSINESS messing with anything north of the meter socket. Judging by some of the responses here many should not even take a coverplate off of a switch!
The loads on overhead secondary lines are carried by the messenger - a steel cable designed to take the strain off the conductors. The pull during high winds is quite strong. ANYTHING attached to a pole requires a THROUGH bolt for this reason. On the customer side the insulator bracket should also have at least ONE full through bolt with a large washer, cripple stud, lawnmower blade (hehe) to prevent a pull out. At least one. Lags even in a stud can be ripped out in extra ordinary conditions such as a debris strike in strong winds.
In a residential setting most overhead runs will be twisted consisting of L1, L2 and the neutral. They are individually insulated.
Primaries - in most residential areas in the U.S. the poles will carry a single line (7.5kV to ground) or three lines - 13.8kV phase to phase. Pole pigs are center tapped at 240V giving 120V from either leg to neutral.
RE AMPS: The legs from the pole pig to your meter socket are UNFUSED! If a fault develops on this line great sparks and flames are often the result. Property damage is often limited to the outside of the building but sometimes fires can start (vinyl siding, for example) on the outside.
Here is an excellent example of what can happen when the secondary line develops a fault. Is that something you want to mess with?
Most electrical casualties actually involve secondary injury. In this example the victim causes a fault or receives a shock and the reflex action causes them to fall off the ladder. The rest of the story is obvious!
The loads on overhead secondary lines are carried by the messenger - a steel cable designed to take the strain off the conductors. The pull during high winds is quite strong. ANYTHING attached to a pole requires a THROUGH bolt for this reason. On the customer side the insulator bracket should also have at least ONE full through bolt with a large washer, cripple stud, lawnmower blade (hehe) to prevent a pull out. At least one. Lags even in a stud can be ripped out in extra ordinary conditions such as a debris strike in strong winds.
In a residential setting most overhead runs will be twisted consisting of L1, L2 and the neutral. They are individually insulated.
Primaries - in most residential areas in the U.S. the poles will carry a single line (7.5kV to ground) or three lines - 13.8kV phase to phase. Pole pigs are center tapped at 240V giving 120V from either leg to neutral.
RE AMPS: The legs from the pole pig to your meter socket are UNFUSED! If a fault develops on this line great sparks and flames are often the result. Property damage is often limited to the outside of the building but sometimes fires can start (vinyl siding, for example) on the outside.
Here is an excellent example of what can happen when the secondary line develops a fault. Is that something you want to mess with?
Most electrical casualties actually involve secondary injury. In this example the victim causes a fault or receives a shock and the reflex action causes them to fall off the ladder. The rest of the story is obvious!
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 23K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
-
-
Facebook
Twitter