What is YOUR solution to the Iraq situation?

[palehorse]

for any of you to continue to insist that troops like myself are "slaughtering innocents" tells me that nothing I ever say will change your propogandist ways. yes, you DO have the right to say anything you wish under the first amendment; however, I also maintain the right to write you off as clueless, baseless, slanderous, and insane.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
for any of you to continue to insist that troops like myself are "slaughtering innocents" tells me that nothing I ever say will change your propogandist ways. yes, you DO have the right to say anything you wish under the first amendment; however, I also maintain the right to write you off as clueless, baseless, slanderous, and insane.

I want to say that they are not "choosing" to do this.. They are following orders.

Pre-Emptive Attack... Obviously = Innocents.

 

[maddogchen]

Originally posted by: jjzelinski

Originally posted by: maddogchen

Originally posted by: jjzelinski

Originally posted by: maddogchen
Learn from History. Do what the Romans did. Massacre entire insurgent cities and send the population away as slaves. It worked very well for the Romans.

So with the Sunni population decimated, they'll be easier to control. Make sure to eliminate all their leaders, even religious ones, so that they will not have anyone leading them astray.

Then when you have your uncontested Shia majority, the Iranian mullah's will pull their strings and lay down that yellow brick road all the way to Saudi Arabia. The royal family will crumble, and we'll be sent reeling economically at the instanteneous loss of crude oil probably from the entire OPEC region.

Thing is, if we could hold on to the region long enough to deplete the oil fields of Saudi Arabia and possibly Iraq we wouldn't be THE ONLY ONES left without a huka tube. Now that the situation is escalating beyond our control, we're losing our grasp of the schedule as well. It stands to reason that since we'll be forced out of the region prior to them depleting their resources they can target our economy specifically since more sympathetic powers will be allowed to continue to feed (like Russia, China, etc.)

If you look at how this will play out several steps ahead you can see that the inevitability of an Iraqi Civil War is just the tip of the ice berg; it's what follows that is freaking everyone out.

I disagree with your points. I think that the Iraqi Shiites are not as close to the Iranians as many of you would like us to think. Except for Sadr who gets his funding from Iran, many religious Iraqi Shiite leaders are suspicious of Iran's intentions. There's also deep tensions still left over from the Iran-Iraq war where many Iraqi Shiites died in. And also after fighting for so long to gain control, once you've gained power, why would you so easily let it slip from you hands and let yourselves be manipulated by others?

And I also disagree that this would lead to Saudi Arabia's downfall. I think that just like how Bush and Co. looked at how everything would go right, you're just trying to see how everything would go wrong. But it rarely works out that way.

Iraq is a void of viable leadership and organization. If it does come to Iraq, it will either be militaristic or theocratical in nature. Either way, it will be a bloody sectarian struggle and both sides will have outside enablers. Who do you think the Shia will defer at that point?

And by the way, if what I describe is pessimistic to you what is your more "realistic" alternative?

If it ever comes to a civil war, the Shiites will crush the Sunni's easily. I don't see them needing to seek much outside help.

What I think will happen is that Civil War is already here or most likely inevitable. Shiites will win. But I don't see Iran pulling the strings or Saudi Arabia's ruling family falling or violence spreading much. I think thats as realistic as Bush's democracy in Iraq will spread democracy throughout the ME.

edit: Violence not spreading much because the nearby countries are very harsh and in control. Saudi Arabia for instance is very tribalistic and very unlikely to be destroyed by the inside. You would need a military invasion to take them down.

 

[Ldir]

Originally posted by: tommywishbone
"Ok, for starters, we haven't slaughtered tens of thousands of innocent men, women & children..."


"Of course we have. I'm sure you don't like the word "slaughter", but according to my dictionary, it's the correct word for killing a large number of people in a violent manner... "

The sad nasty horrible truth. We must be insane.

Herr Bushler is laughing at the slaughter.

It is like being an addict. The first step in recovery is acknowledging the horror of what we have done. We can not begin fixing the problem while Dub's followers remain in denial.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Ldir

Originally posted by: tommywishbone
"Ok, for starters, we haven't slaughtered tens of thousands of innocent men, women & children..."


"Of course we have. I'm sure you don't like the word "slaughter", but according to my dictionary, it's the correct word for killing a large number of people in a violent manner... "

The sad nasty horrible truth. We must be insane.

Herr Bushler is laughing at the slaughter.

It is like being an addict. The first step in recovery is acknowledging the horror of what we have done. We can not begin fixing the problem while Dub's followers remain in denial.

so you too are just one step away from calling me a baby killer and spitting on me at the airport?

swell.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Ldir

Originally posted by: tommywishbone
"Ok, for starters, we haven't slaughtered tens of thousands of innocent men, women & children..."


"Of course we have. I'm sure you don't like the word "slaughter", but according to my dictionary, it's the correct word for killing a large number of people in a violent manner... "

The sad nasty horrible truth. We must be insane.

Herr Bushler is laughing at the slaughter.

It is like being an addict. The first step in recovery is acknowledging the horror of what we have done. We can not begin fixing the problem while Dub's followers remain in denial.

so you too are just one step away from calling me a baby killer and spitting on me at the airport?

swell.

Cry more, that spitting stuff is a urban legend.

I am sure you "know" someone *cough* rush limbaugh *cough rambo movies in the 80s* who got spit all over after they came home, get a life and spread your lies about the peace movement elsewhere.

 

[BarneyFife]

I did read somewhere that their was only a few isolated incidents in regards to spitting back then and it was blown our of proportion.

 

[Ldir]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Ldir

Originally posted by: tommywishbone
"Ok, for starters, we haven't slaughtered tens of thousands of innocent men, women & children..."


"Of course we have. I'm sure you don't like the word "slaughter", but according to my dictionary, it's the correct word for killing a large number of people in a violent manner... "

The sad nasty horrible truth. We must be insane.

Herr Bushler is laughing at the slaughter.

It is like being an addict. The first step in recovery is acknowledging the horror of what we have done. We can not begin fixing the problem while Dub's followers remain in denial.

so you too are just one step away from calling me a baby killer and spitting on me at the airport?

swell.

That was really stupid. How old are you, about 13? Try to stay on topic.

 

[Steeplerot]

http://www.slate.com/id/2091111/

Urban legend about the treatment accorded to soldiers returning from Vietnam, writing, "Many veterans of Vietnam, returning to a deeply divided United States, were greeted with scorn, even spitting or hostile epithets, when they arrived home in uniform."

Although it's impossible to disprove a negative, there is no evidence that anybody ever gobbed on a soldier returning from Vietnam. Holy Cross sociology professor Jerry Lembcke devoted an entire book to demolishing the spit myth, and in 2000, in this "Press Box" article, Slate press critic Jack Shafer reprised Lembcke's findings when the New York Times and U.S. News & World Report repeated the myth inside the same week. Shafer writes, "In the tale of the spitting protester, the signature element is the location: The protester almost always ambushes the serviceman at the airport?not in a park, or at a bar, or on Main Street. Also, it's not uncommon for the insulted serviceman to have flown directly in from Vietnam."


Thing is a LOT of the anti-war movement back then were returned VETS, why the hell would they spit on their fellow soldiers, BS.

This is the second thread you have brought up being a babykiller in for no apparent reason, you got something on your mind you want to tell us?

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
http://www.slate.com/id/2091111/

Urban legend about the treatment accorded to soldiers returning from Vietnam, writing, "Many veterans of Vietnam, returning to a deeply divided United States, were greeted with scorn, even spitting or hostile epithets, when they arrived home in uniform."

Although it's impossible to disprove a negative, there is no evidence that anybody ever gobbed on a soldier returning from Vietnam. Holy Cross sociology professor Jerry Lembcke devoted an entire book to demolishing the spit myth, and in 2000, in this "Press Box" article, Slate press critic Jack Shafer reprised Lembcke's findings when the New York Times and U.S. News & World Report repeated the myth inside the same week. Shafer writes, "In the tale of the spitting protester, the signature element is the location: The protester almost always ambushes the serviceman at the airport?not in a park, or at a bar, or on Main Street. Also, it's not uncommon for the insulted serviceman to have flown directly in from Vietnam."


Thing is a LOT of the anti-war movement back then were returned VETS, why the hell would they spit on their fellow soldiers, BS.

This is the second thread you have brought up being a babykiller in for no apparent reason, you got something on your mind you want to tell us?

You want evidence? I have over 130 books on my shelves regarding Vietnam. Most of which were written by Vietnam veterans. (whom, by default, I tend to believe over anyone here). My father was a Vietnam Vet and made just a few comments about my coming home ceremony as compared to the things taking place when he came home...

That said, I put ANY or ALL of you who claim the we are in Iraq or Afghanistan "slaughtering tens of thousands of innocent men, women and children" into the same category as those who scoffed the soldiers coming home from Vietnam. You are just one small step away from holding a sign calling us baby killers and spitting in our direction!

It's starting to make me sick to see how some of you talk. You attempt to speak out of both sides of your mouths with this "we're against the war, but we support the troops" crap. For a few years, I actually gave you all the benefit of the doubt... that is, until I began to see a new trend developing! Somewhere along the line, many of you stopped differentiating between your accusations of the Administration versus those aimed at our troops. Somewhere along the lines I guess you just said "screw it!" and decided that it wasnt worth the effort to still insist that you support the troops.

Bottom line: somewhere along the line many of you forgot to listen to your own voices and actually hear what you're saying. Everytime you throw that Michael Moore crap out into the public eye, you insult me and every soldier doing the work on the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan!

bah. Some of you people make me sick. You seem 100% willing to repeat one of the ugliest trends in American history... a trend that should never be forgotten, and one wherein the anti's of the 60's should never be forgiven!

 

[LumbergTech]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
http://www.slate.com/id/2091111/

Urban legend about the treatment accorded to soldiers returning from Vietnam, writing, "Many veterans of Vietnam, returning to a deeply divided United States, were greeted with scorn, even spitting or hostile epithets, when they arrived home in uniform."

Although it's impossible to disprove a negative, there is no evidence that anybody ever gobbed on a soldier returning from Vietnam. Holy Cross sociology professor Jerry Lembcke devoted an entire book to demolishing the spit myth, and in 2000, in this "Press Box" article, Slate press critic Jack Shafer reprised Lembcke's findings when the New York Times and U.S. News & World Report repeated the myth inside the same week. Shafer writes, "In the tale of the spitting protester, the signature element is the location: The protester almost always ambushes the serviceman at the airport?not in a park, or at a bar, or on Main Street. Also, it's not uncommon for the insulted serviceman to have flown directly in from Vietnam."


Thing is a LOT of the anti-war movement back then were returned VETS, why the hell would they spit on their fellow soldiers, BS.

This is the second thread you have brought up being a babykiller in for no apparent reason, you got something on your mind you want to tell us?

You want evidence? I have over 130 books on my shelves regarding Vietnam. Most of which were written by Vietnam veterans. (whom, by default, I tend to believe over anyone here). My father was a Vietnam Vet and made just a few comments about my coming home ceremony as compared to the things taking place when he came home...

That said, I put ANY or ALL of you who claim the we are in Iraq or Afghanistan "slaughtering tens of thousands of innocent men, women and children" into the same category as those who scoffed the soldiers coming home from Vietnam. You are just one small step away from holding a sign calling us baby killers and spitting in our direction!

It's starting to make me sick to see how some of you talk. You attempt to speak out of both sides of your mouths with this "we're against the war, but we support the troops" crap. For a few years, I actually gave you all the benefit of the doubt... that is, until I began to see a new trend developing! Somewhere along the line, many of you stopped differentiating between your accusations of the Administration versus those aimed at our troops. Somewhere along the lines I guess you just said "screw it!" and decided that it wasnt worth the effort to still insist that you support the troops.

Bottom line: somewhere along the line many of you forgot to listen to your own voices and actually hear what you're saying. Everytime you throw that Michael Moore crap out into the public eye, you insult me and every soldier doing the work on the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan!

bah. Some of you people make me sick. You seem 100% willing to repeat one of the ugliest trends in American history... a trend that should never be forgotten, and one wherein the anti's of the 60's should never be forgiven!

feel better? you are still wrong. we do support the troops we want them to come home and get out of this frigging disaster, unlike you jerks who are too in love with your ideology and would rather that every last one of them died before admitting you are completely FULL OF CRAP

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: LumbergTech

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
http://www.slate.com/id/2091111/

Urban legend about the treatment accorded to soldiers returning from Vietnam, writing, "Many veterans of Vietnam, returning to a deeply divided United States, were greeted with scorn, even spitting or hostile epithets, when they arrived home in uniform."

Although it's impossible to disprove a negative, there is no evidence that anybody ever gobbed on a soldier returning from Vietnam. Holy Cross sociology professor Jerry Lembcke devoted an entire book to demolishing the spit myth, and in 2000, in this "Press Box" article, Slate press critic Jack Shafer reprised Lembcke's findings when the New York Times and U.S. News & World Report repeated the myth inside the same week. Shafer writes, "In the tale of the spitting protester, the signature element is the location: The protester almost always ambushes the serviceman at the airport?not in a park, or at a bar, or on Main Street. Also, it's not uncommon for the insulted serviceman to have flown directly in from Vietnam."


Thing is a LOT of the anti-war movement back then were returned VETS, why the hell would they spit on their fellow soldiers, BS.

This is the second thread you have brought up being a babykiller in for no apparent reason, you got something on your mind you want to tell us?

You want evidence? I have over 130 books on my shelves regarding Vietnam. Most of which were written by Vietnam veterans. (whom, by default, I tend to believe over anyone here). My father was a Vietnam Vet and made just a few comments about my coming home ceremony as compared to the things taking place when he came home...

That said, I put ANY or ALL of you who claim the we are in Iraq or Afghanistan "slaughtering tens of thousands of innocent men, women and children" into the same category as those who scoffed the soldiers coming home from Vietnam. You are just one small step away from holding a sign calling us baby killers and spitting in our direction!

It's starting to make me sick to see how some of you talk. You attempt to speak out of both sides of your mouths with this "we're against the war, but we support the troops" crap. For a few years, I actually gave you all the benefit of the doubt... that is, until I began to see a new trend developing! Somewhere along the line, many of you stopped differentiating between your accusations of the Administration versus those aimed at our troops. Somewhere along the lines I guess you just said "screw it!" and decided that it wasnt worth the effort to still insist that you support the troops.

Bottom line: somewhere along the line many of you forgot to listen to your own voices and actually hear what you're saying. Everytime you throw that Michael Moore crap out into the public eye, you insult me and every soldier doing the work on the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan!

bah. Some of you people make me sick. You seem 100% willing to repeat one of the ugliest trends in American history... a trend that should never be forgotten, and one wherein the anti's of the 60's should never be forgiven!

feel better? you are still wrong. we do support the troops we want them to come home and get out of this frigging disaster, unlike you jerks who are too in love with your ideology and would rather that ever last one of them died before admitting you are completely FULL OF CRAP

if this is how you supposedly "support" us, then you can keep it.

 

[conjur]

Even the neocons that got the US into Iraq are now saying, "Hey, we fvcked up. Sorry."

Well, sorry doesn't cut it.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
You want evidence? I have over 130 books on my shelves regarding Vietnam. Most of which were written by Vietnam veterans. (whom, by default, I tend to believe over anyone here). My father was a Vietnam Vet and made just a few comments about my coming home ceremony as compared to the things taking place when he came home...

Speaking of Vietnam/Iraq, this is a interesting article

Those who say Iraq is nothing like Vietnam have another guess coming, says retired Gen. William Odom. He lists striking similarities and asserts that only after it pulls out of Iraq can the U.S. hope for international support to deal with anti-Western forces.

As al Qaeda marched into a country where it had not dared to tread before, the White House refused to admit that its war allowed them in. As Iran?s influence with Iraqi Shiite clerics and militias quietly expands, the administration refuses to confess its own culpability. As Shiite politicians appear headed to dominate the U.S.-created ?democracy? in Iraq, no one is asking ?Who lost Iraq to Iran??

But even in its differences, Vietnam can be instructive about Iraq. Once the U.S. position in Vietnam collapsed, Washington was free to reverse the negative trends it faced in NATO and U.S.-Soviet military balance, in the world economy, in its international image, and in other areas. Only by getting out of Iraq can the United States possibly gain sufficient international support to design a new strategy for limiting the burgeoning growth of anti-Western forces it has unleashed in the Middle East and Southwest Asia.

Lieutenant General William E. Odom, U.S. Army (Ret.), is a Senior Fellow with Hudson Institute and a professor at Yale University. He was Director of the National Security Agency from 1985 to 1988. From 1981 to 1985, he served as Assistant Chief of Staff for Intelligence, the Army's senior intelligence officer. From 1977 to 1981, he was Military Assistant to the President's Assistant for National Security Affairs, Zbigniew Brzezinski.

Iraq through the prism of Vietnam

 

[Lemon law]

I finally figured out a peace plan------send GWB, Dick Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Rice over to Iraq on a fact finding mission.
Give them an unarmored humvee and a full tank of gas-tell them to drive around until they find a IED. Hopefully a big enough one to get them all.

Once those Turkeys are gone, cooler heads can find a way to make peace.

Anything short of that is asking for a big and totally unpredictable civil war that is certain to spill far beyond the borders of Iraq.

Then we can start a religion whose main selling point is that Bush died to save you and I from his own sins. Moslems, Christians, Jews, Hindu, Buddists, and even Wiccans will all convert. And I can have the immortal role of Judas as the age of Aquaris finally dawns.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
http://www.slate.com/id/2091111/

Urban legend about the treatment accorded to soldiers returning from Vietnam, writing, "Many veterans of Vietnam, returning to a deeply divided United States, were greeted with scorn, even spitting or hostile epithets, when they arrived home in uniform."

Although it's impossible to disprove a negative, there is no evidence that anybody ever gobbed on a soldier returning from Vietnam. Holy Cross sociology professor Jerry Lembcke devoted an entire book to demolishing the spit myth, and in 2000, in this "Press Box" article, Slate press critic Jack Shafer reprised Lembcke's findings when the New York Times and U.S. News & World Report repeated the myth inside the same week. Shafer writes, "In the tale of the spitting protester, the signature element is the location: The protester almost always ambushes the serviceman at the airport?not in a park, or at a bar, or on Main Street. Also, it's not uncommon for the insulted serviceman to have flown directly in from Vietnam."


Thing is a LOT of the anti-war movement back then were returned VETS, why the hell would they spit on their fellow soldiers, BS.

This is the second thread you have brought up being a babykiller in for no apparent reason, you got something on your mind you want to tell us?

You want evidence? I have over 130 books on my shelves regarding Vietnam. Most of which were written by Vietnam veterans. (whom, by default, I tend to believe over anyone here). My father was a Vietnam Vet and made just a few comments about my coming home ceremony as compared to the things taking place when he came home...

That said, I put ANY or ALL of you who claim the we are in Iraq or Afghanistan "slaughtering tens of thousands of innocent men, women and children" into the same category as those who scoffed the soldiers coming home from Vietnam. You are just one small step away from holding a sign calling us baby killers and spitting in our direction!

It's starting to make me sick to see how some of you talk. You attempt to speak out of both sides of your mouths with this "we're against the war, but we support the troops" crap. For a few years, I actually gave you all the benefit of the doubt... that is, until I began to see a new trend developing! Somewhere along the line, many of you stopped differentiating between your accusations of the Administration versus those aimed at our troops. Somewhere along the lines I guess you just said "screw it!" and decided that it wasnt worth the effort to still insist that you support the troops.

Bottom line: somewhere along the line many of you forgot to listen to your own voices and actually hear what you're saying. Everytime you throw that Michael Moore crap out into the public eye, you insult me and every soldier doing the work on the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan!

bah. Some of you people make me sick. You seem 100% willing to repeat one of the ugliest trends in American history... a trend that should never be forgotten, and one wherein the anti's of the 60's should never be forgiven!

Rambo movies and bill oreilley for kids books do not = reality the spitting on soldiers crap is a right wing lie. Who the hell would spit on a soldier just back from a tour? Get a clue.

A peace movement does not start overnight, espically with all the lies and patriotic crap fed to people, but in time when enough people lose loved ones for no good reason people will wake up, and peace will win, again.

The good people in america will win out again, regardless of your pathetic rantings of whos a traitor if they dont buy into the lies killing our people and people across the world.

Plenty of naive people like you said the same stuff in the 60s and it is only a matter of time before people realize those words wrapped around the flag is nothing short of a noose.

 

[Agrooreo]

Pull all of our troops out and bring them home. Thats the only real option thats left now. How much longer are we going to watch our brothers and sisters die for another country on cnn?

 

[JEDIYoda]

bring the troops home!! NukeEm all....the quarantine that part of the world!!

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
bring the troops home!! NukeEm all....the quarantine that part of the world!!

Man, you would make a piss poor jedi as someone pointed out.

 

[arsbanned]

One of the architects of Vietnam war policy, Former Sec of State McNamara has said that Vietnam was a huge mistake. Iraq is a mistake. Striking similarities indeed.

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Ldir

Originally posted by: tommywishbone
"Ok, for starters, we haven't slaughtered tens of thousands of innocent men, women & children..."


"Of course we have. I'm sure you don't like the word "slaughter", but according to my dictionary, it's the correct word for killing a large number of people in a violent manner... "

The sad nasty horrible truth. We must be insane.

Herr Bushler is laughing at the slaughter.

It is like being an addict. The first step in recovery is acknowledging the horror of what we have done. We can not begin fixing the problem while Dub's followers remain in denial.

so you too are just one step away from calling me a baby killer and spitting on me at the airport?

swell.

Since you probably just cook and order toilet paper for the troops, no, we're not accusing YOU of PERSONALLY killing all those BABIES. :disgust:

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
http://www.slate.com/id/2091111/

Urban legend about the treatment accorded to soldiers returning from Vietnam, writing, "Many veterans of Vietnam, returning to a deeply divided United States, were greeted with scorn, even spitting or hostile epithets, when they arrived home in uniform."

Although it's impossible to disprove a negative, there is no evidence that anybody ever gobbed on a soldier returning from Vietnam. Holy Cross sociology professor Jerry Lembcke devoted an entire book to demolishing the spit myth, and in 2000, in this "Press Box" article, Slate press critic Jack Shafer reprised Lembcke's findings when the New York Times and U.S. News & World Report repeated the myth inside the same week. Shafer writes, "In the tale of the spitting protester, the signature element is the location: The protester almost always ambushes the serviceman at the airport?not in a park, or at a bar, or on Main Street. Also, it's not uncommon for the insulted serviceman to have flown directly in from Vietnam."


Thing is a LOT of the anti-war movement back then were returned VETS, why the hell would they spit on their fellow soldiers, BS.

This is the second thread you have brought up being a babykiller in for no apparent reason, you got something on your mind you want to tell us?

You want evidence? I have over 130 books on my shelves regarding Vietnam. Most of which were written by Vietnam veterans. (whom, by default, I tend to believe over anyone here). My father was a Vietnam Vet and made just a few comments about my coming home ceremony as compared to the things taking place when he came home...

Sounds like a lot of bias in your mind there, Mr. Counterstrike. I think all of that reading and Counterstriking has convinced you that you actually served in the military.

That said, I put ANY or ALL of you who claim the we are in Iraq or Afghanistan "slaughtering tens of thousands of innocent men, women and children" into the same category as those who scoffed the soldiers coming home from Vietnam. You are just one small step away from holding a sign calling us baby killers and spitting in our direction!

I think you're misinterpreting most peoples' statements. It's the gov't and military commanders that are being criticized, not the men and women on the ground.

It's starting to make me sick to see how some of you talk. You attempt to speak out of both sides of your mouths with this "we're against the war, but we support the troops" crap. For a few years, I actually gave you all the benefit of the doubt... that is, until I began to see a new trend developing! Somewhere along the line, many of you stopped differentiating between your accusations of the Administration versus those aimed at our troops. Somewhere along the lines I guess you just said "screw it!" and decided that it wasnt worth the effort to still insist that you support the troops.

Oh, you mean like these people said a few years ago?

"No goal, no objective, not until we have those things and a compelling case is made, then I say, back out of it, because innocent people are going to die for nothing. That's why I'm against it."

-Sean Hannity, Fox News, 4/5/99

"I had doubts about the bombing campaign from the beginning...I didn't think we had done enough in the diplomatic area."

-Senator Trent Lott (R-MS)

"If we are going to commit American troops, we must be certain they have a clear mission, an achievable goal and an exit strategy."

-Karen Hughes, speaking on behalf of presidential candidate George W. Bush

"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is."

-Governor George W. Bush (R-TX)

"This is President Clinton's war, and when he falls flat on his face, that's his problem."

-Senator Richard Lugar (R-IN)

"You can support the troops but not the president"

-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)

Bottom line: somewhere along the line many of you forgot to listen to your own voices and actually hear what you're saying. Everytime you throw that Michael Moore crap out into the public eye, you insult me and every soldier doing the work on the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan!

Oh, here we go. When palehorse is out of ammo he falls back to the good ol' Michael Moore label. Pathetically lame.

bah. Some of you people make me sick. You seem 100% willing to repeat one of the ugliest trends in American history... a trend that should never be forgotten, and one wherein the anti's of the 60's should never be forgiven!

That's right, Vietnam was part of a trend that should never happen again. An invasion based upon lies. Iraq won't be the last, though, sadly.