What is YOUR solution to the Iraq situation?

[johnnobts]

Then time travel back and kneecap everyone that voted for Shrub in Florida in 2000.

:thumbsdown:

 

[Todd33]

I think it was Clark who had also wanted the three state system implemented.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Slick50
How about we leave it up the the government instead of all of this speculation and theorizing that nobody can prove.

wth is wrong with brainstorming alternative solutions?!? Thus far, it's better than the flamefests that usually go on aorund here!

And for that I am very appreciate btw... most of you have shown just how frustrating the real problem is, and some have even offered realistic alternatives. keep em coming!!

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: homercles337
We had an established representative republic in place before the civil war though. What does iraq have ATM? There is no cleaning up this mess. Bush I had it right:

Trying to eliminate Saddam, extending the ground war into an occupation of Iraq, would have violated our guideline about not changing objectives in midstream, engaging in "mission creep," and would have incurred incalculable human and political costs. Apprehending him was probably impossible. We had been unable to find Noriega in Panama, which we knew intimately. We would have been forced to occupy Baghdad and, in effect, rule Iraq. The coalition would instantly have collapsed, the Arabs deserting it in anger and other allies pulling out as well. Under the circumstances, there was no viable "exit strategy" we could see, violating another of our principles. Furthermore, we had been self-consciously trying to set a pattern for handling aggression in the post-Cold War world. Going in and occupying Iraq, thus unilaterally exceeding the United Nations' mandate, would have destroyed the precedent of international response to aggression that we hoped to establish. Had we gone the invasion route, the United States could conceivably still be an occupying power in a bitterly hostile land. It would have been a dramatically different ? and perhaps barren ? outcome.

And I'll bet Junior is furious and humiliated that Dad hit it on the nose again, proving yet again how he (Junior) fails to live up to Dad's standards.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: johnnobts
Then time travel back and kneecap everyone that voted for Shrub in Florida in 2000.

:thumbsdown:

then .. how about we change it to 2004?


Personally, I would like to see our first executions for Treason against the US starting with anyone in this administration who is part of the neocon agenda and any PNAC rep we can capture..

 

[MAW1082]

SELF DETERMINATION

 

[Rainsford]

My plan is so easy, even palehorse74 thought of it already. Only he, and the administration, have not taken it far enough. The answer to our problems is to get the Iraqis policing themselves. This couldn't be more obvious than in the latest round of violence. The Iraqi government was unable to prevent deadly attacks by Sunnis against Shi'ites, and the Shi'ites (correctly, IMHO) assumed that the government couldn't protect them...so Shi'ite militias have been doing the "protection" work in an unofficial capacity. But not being police or even army, they have managed to respond to the Sunni violence in a manner much closer to the approach the terrorists use than anything resembling law and order in a democratic government. Had the government been able to respond effectivly to the attacks, or been able to prevent them in the first place, it would have been a perfect object lesson in how the Iraqi government was taking charge and protecting the people. Instead, the Iraqis demonstrated that they can't protect anyone, and reinforced the feelings many Iraqis have that Iraq is really shaping up to be Sunni vs Shi'ite vs Kurd vs whoever else wants to play. A defining moment for demonstrating strength, and the Iraqi government blew it. Probably because they lack the manpower, organization, equipment, money and training to do anything remotely close to demonstrating strength.

So I agree with palehorse74 and Bush? Not in the least. My solution to Iraq is to train and equip police and army units so Iraqis can take over security duties. Bush's approach is to TALK about doing those things, but not actually make any progress. This is a big difference. Bush has been using the "as they stand up, we stand down" line for a long time now...and it is not clear the Iraqis are any closer to standing up than they were a year ago. The progress we've been making is sad, and at the rate we're going, we'll be there for many, MANY years to come. My humble suggestion is to stop dicking around and really push the training and equiping. Occupation is a money sink, you spend and spend without actually getting anything. So raise the budget in Iraq if you have to, but spend the money on training and equiping the Iraqis. That's something that will show real results, we'll see a return on our investment in terms of Iraqi security and progress. And we'll be able to bring the troops home. Which is of course the plan Bush claims to support, but if that's what's going on, he's sure doing a piss poor job of it.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
Ok, the general purpose of this thread is to hear from everyone exactly what their specific ideas are to ultimately bring peace to Iraq. I see too many people attacking the current administration's plans without themselves offering a viable alternative. Sooo, here's the big test: do you have a better idea? a workable solution? If so, please let me know here! ...

I think one of our fundamental problems is we have no credibility. Most other countries don't trust us because they see us as imperialist warmongers who flout international law and refuse to cooperate with the international community. Iraqis don't trust us for much the same reason, not to mention the minor detail that we invaded and occupied their country without provocation, slaughtering tens of thousands of innocent husbands and wives, mothers and fathers, sons and daughters in the process. In order to improve the Iraqi quagmire, we need help. We need more help from the international community, and we need more help from the Iraqi people. To get more help, we need to rehabilitate our credibility, to convince both Iraqis and the world that our intentions are honorable and just.

In my opinion, a critical first step to rehabilitaing America's credibility is demonstrating we recognize our mistakes and are willing to correct them. That means we need to hold the Bush administration and its lackeys accountable for their aggression, purging them from government and putting them on trial. We'll also have to show the international community we are not only willing to work with them, but are eager to do so, even if it means we no longer get to call the shots. No more profiteering for Halliburton and other BushCo cronies, but that's a small price to pay for peace. Once we can establish a true multi-national police force in Iraq, working under the command of the Iraqi government, we'll have a better chance of cooperation from the Iraqi citizenry. At a minimum, it may placate the Iraqi resistance and reduce their violence against both U.S. and Iraqi targets. It might or might not help prevent a full-blown civil war.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
My plan is so easy, even palehorse74 thought of it already. Only he, and the administration, have not taken it far enough. The answer to our problems is to get the Iraqis policing themselves. This couldn't be more obvious than in the latest round of violence. The Iraqi government was unable to prevent deadly attacks by Sunnis against Shi'ites, and the Shi'ites (correctly, IMHO) assumed that the government couldn't protect them...so Shi'ite militias have been doing the "protection" work in an unofficial capacity. But not being police or even army, they have managed to respond to the Sunni violence in a manner much closer to the approach the terrorists use than anything resembling law and order in a democratic government. Had the government been able to respond effectivly to the attacks, or been able to prevent them in the first place, it would have been a perfect object lesson in how the Iraqi government was taking charge and protecting the people. Instead, the Iraqis demonstrated that they can't protect anyone, and reinforced the feelings many Iraqis have that Iraq is really shaping up to be Sunni vs Shi'ite vs Kurd vs whoever else wants to play. A defining moment for demonstrating strength, and the Iraqi government blew it. Probably because they lack the manpower, organization, equipment, money and training to do anything remotely close to demonstrating strength.

So I agree with palehorse74 and Bush? Not in the least. My solution to Iraq is to train and equip police and army units so Iraqis can take over security duties. Bush's approach is to TALK about doing those things, but not actually make any progress. This is a big difference. Bush has been using the "as they stand up, we stand down" line for a long time now...and it is not clear the Iraqis are any closer to standing up than they were a year ago. The progress we've been making is sad, and at the rate we're going, we'll be there for many, MANY years to come. My humble suggestion is to stop dicking around and really push the training and equiping. Occupation is a money sink, you spend and spend without actually getting anything. So raise the budget in Iraq if you have to, but spend the money on training and equiping the Iraqis. That's something that will show real results, we'll see a return on our investment in terms of Iraqi security and progress. And we'll be able to bring the troops home. Which is of course the plan Bush claims to support, but if that's what's going on, he's sure doing a piss poor job of it.

how would you measure progress versus how it's being done now? Do you have any idea exactly how it HAS been measured? what progress, even if only a little, has been made in terms of the number of troops and police fully trained and in place? Is this information freely available somewhere online?

etc...

I agree with everything you've just said... I have never said that Bush's plans are the most effective or the most efficient. However, I do believe that they are the right plans in terms of goals and direction. So you and I, believe it or not, are actually on the same page.

dont let the fact that we agree scare you! lol..

 

[homercles337]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger
To get more help, we need to rehabilitate our credibility, to convince both Iraqis and the world that our intentions are honorable and just.

But arent we doing that by allowing Dubai to control a number of our major ports? In fact, DumbYa is willing to use his FIRST and only veto to spread this message.

 

[Stunt]

I think the best solution for a country and culture we know little about will not be exposed here or by the whitehouse.

I'd like to see more collaboration with the other Muslim states; including Iran. At least the gov't will not be seen as a puppet government.

 

[tommywishbone]

Give Iraq $500 billion in cash. Put Bush & Company on trial for genocide and crimes against humanity. Shut all US military bases not located on US soil. Remove all forces from the Middle East within 30 days.

 

[bctbct]

Stay the course.....give dubai a bilion dollar contract. Problem solved.

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: tommywishbone
Give Iraq $500 billion in cash. Put Bush & Company on trial for genocide and crimes against humanity. Shut all US military bases not located on US soil. Remove all forces from the Middle East within 30 days.

I like your train of thought. I'll write your name in for '08.

 

[tommywishbone]

I accept your nomination. 1st order of business... Free Beer!

 

[arsbanned]

Originally posted by: smack Down
Time travel. Go back in time and slap all the people in FL that voted for Bush.

OK, one correct answer in the whole lot so far. :thumbsup:

All Bush had to do was listen to the experts who understood the situation correctly and not go in. Now we're fvcked. The way out shouldn't be up to the people who disagreed with going in.
Bush should twist and twist, along with the rest of his cronies. In the meantime, I get to snipe and complain all I want.

 

[daniel49]

send conjur to broker a treaty

 

[dahunan]

There is no physical body who could have stopped bush and the neocons from killing Iraqi People.. whatever the motive.. they would not be denied

 

[Tab]

Leave.

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
Well, IMO, and the current administration's for that matter, we simply continue to train their Army and police to eventually clean up the violent environment themselves.

Yep, staaaay the course. It's worked exceedingly well so far, and the insurgency is in its last throes as a result of that

 

[Moonbeam]

Declare Iraq to be the 51st state of the Union with the Constitution as of now in full effect.

Distribute the population across the rest of the US and ship Americans over there. Rebuild the country up to US standards, teach the Iraqis English and American Government and slowly integrate them back. Then let them then vote on whether they would like to remain a state or not.

 

[palehorse]

let's try to limit the responses to realistic and viable solutions... some of you are so blinded by your partisan hatred that problem solving and brainstorming are beyond you...

 

[Train]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
let's try to limit the responses to realistic and viable solutions... some of you are so blinded by your partisan hatred that problem solving and brainstorming are beyond you...

Heres a realistic solution. Rumsfeld should have paid more attention to Tommy Franks. I'd bet casualties would be about 25-50% less, and Iraq would be a lot more stable at this point than it is.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: palehorse74
let's try to limit the responses to realistic and viable solutions... some of you are so blinded by your partisan hatred that problem solving and brainstorming are beyond you...

Heres a realistic solution. Rumsfeld should have paid more attention to Tommy Franks. I'd bet casualties would be about 25-50% less, and Iraq would be a lot more stable at this point than it is.

ok.. again, we've been over what has gone wrong a million times around here... the challenge here, in this thread, is to brainstorm solutions based on the situation we are given here and now... If you were placed in charge of coming up with a workable solution, where would you begin?

be realistic and try to figure out how, what, when, and where we need to go from here!... just try.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
let's try to limit the responses to realistic and viable solutions... some of you are so blinded by your partisan hatred that problem solving and brainstorming are beyond you...

I am extremely upset that this post follows mine. I hope you will amend it to clarify to the forum you don't refer to me. Otherwise I will have to get violent and try to guess what you could possibly, possibly mean and by what tenuous unlikelihood it could imaginatively apply to me.