What is wrong with America's high schools?

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: fitzov
In order for education to be successful, kids need to have an incentive to learn. Jamming it down their throat does not work. You can impose all the harsh penalties for failure you want--that will not make them succeed. Also they are smarter than we give them credit for in terms of the realities of the world--this is in fact what dissuades them from attempting to accell. They see that our country is going down the toilet, and that the world is not a nice place to be at times. They have to feel it is worth doing something about to achieve adulthood.

pssst. Accell is not a word, it's a company. Excel is what you're looking for. :thumbsup:

 

[amol]

Two hours of work? I'd KILL for only two hours of work! Hell, I'm up at 4:45 trying to finish all my homework!

 

[Svnla]

Bump for day shift crowd.

 

[theeedude]

Double Post

 

[theeedude]

I love how the question is always "What's wrong with America's High Schools?" not "What's wrong with American kids?"
If a kid doesn't want to do homework, disrupts class, or drops out, how is it the school's fault? Ultimately, it's the family's responsibility to raise the kid. School is just a tool in that upbringing. I could see if these kids did great in school, and they still weren't prepared for life, then I would say, yeah, school is to blame for not offering enough courses. Even then, it's still the parent's responsibility to have their kid do independent or additional learning to supplement his school work. But we are talking about kids who flunk out of school, so they aren't even taking advantage of opportunities to learn that the school is offering. So it's they who are limiting themselves, not the school.

 

[latino666]

Originally posted by: GeekDrew

Originally posted by: latino666
How about actually spending more money on books, desk, computers, and learning material then on football fields, gyms, super-duper auditoriums, and teachers pay.

That goes back to taxes and the public donating money.

In my experience (with multiple public schools in central Ohio), general funds are not used for fields, gyms, or auditoriums. "Booster" organizations are needed to take care of that. At the local high school, the athletic department has a Bingo department -- the proceeds from the bi-weekly Bingo games they have are what pays for the gymnasiums, athletic trips, all sports teams and supplies, sports complexes and buildings, and sports fields.

Similarly, the music boosters are who pays for auditoriums, music supplies, trips, etc. A little bit is taken from general funds, but it's trivially little. Some funding is also provided by grants from the state, that can only be used for music.

As for teacher salaries... what, do you want them reduced? We already have some teachers making so little that they cannot survive on a day-to-day basis, and are on welfare or food stamps.

The money allocated to public education, in general, is pathetically little. We have five or six school issues on our ballot for the May 2nd Primary election in my county, and one of them is an "EMERGENCY OPERATIONS" issue... meaning that the school is bankrupt and must immediately have more money, or it will be forced to close. They've already stopped all non-required activities (sports, etc.) that is not solely paid for by booster organizations or families. Some schools are discussing terminating transportation departments... though they haven't quite figured out how to handle that, when they have elementary students at their schools from up to 25 miles away.

I'd like to see the money earmarked for the Department of Defense given to the Department of Education. Let the DoD hold a bake sale to buy their next aircraft carrier.

Thats different then Detroit schools. They seem to worry about more athletic programs then actually learning progams over here.

As for the teachers pay some are way overpaid for what they are doing (not doing) for our students. But what I would really love to see the teachers union destryoed. They have way to much power. Especially when they go on strike or have those city wide sick days. They supposedly don't get paid enough so they waste a day of school to protest. Thats all fine & dandy if you are mad about your pay but don't waste a school day because of it. Thats a wonderful example they are setting for their students. If you b!tch and moan you get what you want.

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: Azndude2190
I'm a Junior at my HS...and starting next semester(basically next year)kids with GPA's lower than 2.0 are going to be "kicked out"(well transferred to smaller community HS in a neighbor city untell they can up their GPA)

So I guess this is their solution(well our).Get rid of the bad kids.

Just where do the 'bad kids' go?

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Originally posted by: senseamp
I love how the question is always "What's wrong with America's High Schools?" not "What's wrong with American kids?"
If a kid doesn't want to do homework, disrupts class, or drops out, how is it the school's fault? Ultimately, it's the family's responsibility to raise the kid. School is just a tool in that upbringing. I could see if these kids did great in school, and they still weren't prepared for life, then I would say, yeah, school is to blame for not offering enough courses. Even then, it's still the parent's responsibility to have their kid do independent or additional learning to supplement his school work. But we are talking about kids who flunk out of school, so they aren't even taking advantage of opportunities to learn that the school is offering. So it's they who are limiting themselves, not the school.

It's the people ok? It surprises me how dumb America is sometimes, and some of you say that, but the pure stupidity of people even on ATOT amazes me. I mean I see people still spelling the easiest words in English wrong all the time. It's not a simple typo, but a consistent error that boggles the mind.

Maybe I'm from a high school where more than 70% of the graduates head to a UC system school. Given that the UC system is for the top 12.5% CA residents, I say that's pretty damn good. I honestly don't know what's wrong with America's high schools. We have parents here complaining that there aren't enough A's in classes or that certain teachers are b!tches even though we are one of the top feeder schools for UCLA or Cal. Yes I come from a great public school, and maybe it's also because our student population is over 60% Asian. I never felt that people here are too idiotic, or too retarded. Sure there are some stupid people at our school, but they are such a limited portion of the student body that I probably never got to know them.

I say it's the people that make the school. So if there's a problem with America's kids, its their family's fault mainly. Don't blame the school. There's tons of problems with my school. I mean we start salaries at $37,500 in the BAY AREA? Please. $500,000 won't even get you a shack where I live.

 

[GeekDrew]

Originally posted by: latino666

Originally posted by: GeekDrew

Originally posted by: latino666
How about actually spending more money on books, desk, computers, and learning material then on football fields, gyms, super-duper auditoriums, and teachers pay.

That goes back to taxes and the public donating money.

In my experience (with multiple public schools in central Ohio), general funds are not used for fields, gyms, or auditoriums. "Booster" organizations are needed to take care of that. At the local high school, the athletic department has a Bingo department -- the proceeds from the bi-weekly Bingo games they have are what pays for the gymnasiums, athletic trips, all sports teams and supplies, sports complexes and buildings, and sports fields.

Similarly, the music boosters are who pays for auditoriums, music supplies, trips, etc. A little bit is taken from general funds, but it's trivially little. Some funding is also provided by grants from the state, that can only be used for music.

As for teacher salaries... what, do you want them reduced? We already have some teachers making so little that they cannot survive on a day-to-day basis, and are on welfare or food stamps.

The money allocated to public education, in general, is pathetically little. We have five or six school issues on our ballot for the May 2nd Primary election in my county, and one of them is an "EMERGENCY OPERATIONS" issue... meaning that the school is bankrupt and must immediately have more money, or it will be forced to close. They've already stopped all non-required activities (sports, etc.) that is not solely paid for by booster organizations or families. Some schools are discussing terminating transportation departments... though they haven't quite figured out how to handle that, when they have elementary students at their schools from up to 25 miles away.

I'd like to see the money earmarked for the Department of Defense given to the Department of Education. Let the DoD hold a bake sale to buy their next aircraft carrier.

Thats different then Detroit schools. They seem to worry about more athletic programs then actually learning progams over here.

As for the teachers pay some are way overpaid for what they are doing (not doing) for our students. But what I would really love to see the teachers union destryoed. They have way to much power. Especially when they go on strike or have those city wide sick days. They supposedly don't get paid enough so they waste a day of school to protest. Thats all fine & dandy if you are mad about your pay but don't waste a school day because of it. Thats a wonderful example they are setting for their students. If you b!tch and moan you get what you want.

I'm interested in hearing you elaborate on "they seem to worry about more athletic programs then actually learning progams over here". Does that mean they make the news more often, or does it mean that athletics receive a larger portion of the budget, or what?

I agree that unions have way too much power... but I disagree that they should be destroyed. At one school I worked at, the union had to fight for a 3% cost of living increase, which I'm told (and have seen) that 3% or more is required or typical in other areas/industries. If it weren't for unions, I think that the public education of America would be infinitely worse than it already is, primarily because few teachers would work for such a pittance of a salary.

Out of curiosity, how much are the teachers making to make you think that they are overpaid?

 

[GeekDrew]

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: Azndude2190
I'm a Junior at my HS...and starting next semester(basically next year)kids with GPA's lower than 2.0 are going to be "kicked out"(well transferred to smaller community HS in a neighbor city untell they can up their GPA)

So I guess this is their solution(well our).Get rid of the bad kids.

Just where do the 'bad kids' go?

Typically an "alternative" school. (Read: less education and more security than many city jails)

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: Gobadgrs

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Go watch MTV's Sweet Sixteen and you'll see what the problem is. America's children are so spoiled rotten that many feel that they DESERVE success. It will simply be handed to them on a silver platter.

That show makes me want to vomit.

It makes me sick too, but I hope both of you realize that the girls on that show represent no more than 1-2 percent of the population.

But, I think you're missing the point... it isn't those 1 percent (or less) of girls who aren't graduating from high school - it's the other people who develop a sense of entitlement after watching show after show after show that demonstrates to them that life should be handed to them on a silver platter. These people having a great time never have to work for anything, so why should anyone else?

Uh no, I am not missing the point. Don't try to tell me that teenagers watch "Sweet Sixteen" then come to the realization that they deserve a $200,000 birthday party, a new Land Rover, and a house on the beach. Believe it or not, the teenagers of America (at least a large percentage of them) are not that dumb...at least they weren't at my HS.

You simply are not giving them enough credit. Like someone else said: "In order for education to be successful, kids need to have an incentive to learn. Jamming it down their throat does not work. You can impose all the harsh penalties for failure you want--that will not make them succeed."

Some kids just are not meant to take calculus. The system is set-up to push every student towards a four year Uni when it should be more concerned with each child's strength/weaknesses and hopes/desires. However, with the awful counseling in schools these days, there is no hope for that.

 

[classy]

Originally posted by: villageidiot111

Originally posted by: classy
The biggest problem we have is that the American Dream is only for a select few. Our culture is overly dominated by education. Kids are not taught to develop skills and pursue jobs they can enjoy, so they are easily discouraged and quit. Its not cool to teach kids about being farmers, hair dressers, or mechanics anymore. They even have kids being required to take 2-3 years of a foreign language, which is stupid. We're not developing people anymore, we are developing curriculums. And the curriculums are not geared towards developing the child to excel at what they are good at.

Curriculums are geared towards general knowledge everyone should possess. If there is a particular career you wish to persue, then there almost always is an elective for it. And the requirements for foreign language courses are acutally lower than they were 30 years ago. At least 2 years of Latin used to be a graduation requirement in many schools.

That is so not true. I graduated about 20 years ago and foreign language was completely optional. I went to a good public school too. And curriculums are not geared toward knowledge everyone should possess. I remember we had an AG department and even small engine repair. Today schools want to teach everyone to be doctors, lawyers, or professors. And only about 30% of the kids have the ability or DESIRE to fill those type of goals, but schools don't understand that so they put kids in positions for failure.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: villageidiot111

Originally posted by: classy
The biggest problem we have is that the American Dream is only for a select few. Our culture is overly dominated by education. Kids are not taught to develop skills and pursue jobs they can enjoy, so they are easily discouraged and quit. Its not cool to teach kids about being farmers, hair dressers, or mechanics anymore. They even have kids being required to take 2-3 years of a foreign language, which is stupid. We're not developing people anymore, we are developing curriculums. And the curriculums are not geared towards developing the child to excel at what they are good at.

Curriculums are geared towards general knowledge everyone should possess. If there is a particular career you wish to persue, then there almost always is an elective for it. And the requirements for foreign language courses are acutally lower than they were 30 years ago. At least 2 years of Latin used to be a graduation requirement in many schools.

That is so not true. I graduated about 20 years ago and foreign language was completely optional. I went to a good public school too. And curriculums are not geared toward knowledge everyone should possess. I remember we had an AG department and even small engine repair. Today schools want to teach everyone to be doctors, lawyers, or professors. And only about 30% of the kids have the ability or DESIRE to fill those type of goals, but schools don't understand that so they put kids in positions for failure.

Agreed, Classy.

 

[Reckoner]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: villageidiot111

Originally posted by: classy
The biggest problem we have is that the American Dream is only for a select few. Our culture is overly dominated by education. Kids are not taught to develop skills and pursue jobs they can enjoy, so they are easily discouraged and quit. Its not cool to teach kids about being farmers, hair dressers, or mechanics anymore. They even have kids being required to take 2-3 years of a foreign language, which is stupid. We're not developing people anymore, we are developing curriculums. And the curriculums are not geared towards developing the child to excel at what they are good at.

Curriculums are geared towards general knowledge everyone should possess. If there is a particular career you wish to persue, then there almost always is an elective for it. And the requirements for foreign language courses are acutally lower than they were 30 years ago. At least 2 years of Latin used to be a graduation requirement in many schools.

That is so not true. I graduated about 20 years ago and foreign language was completely optional. I went to a good public school too. And curriculums are not geared toward knowledge everyone should possess. I remember we had an AG department and even small engine repair. Today schools want to teach everyone to be doctors, lawyers, or professors. And only about 30% of the kids have the ability or DESIRE to fill those type of goals, but schools don't understand that so they put kids in positions for failure.

Agreed, Classy.

I agree as well.

 

[Compton]

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: Azndude2190
I'm a Junior at my HS...and starting next semester(basically next year)kids with GPA's lower than 2.0 are going to be "kicked out"(well transferred to smaller community HS in a neighbor city untell they can up their GPA)

So I guess this is their solution(well our).Get rid of the bad kids.

Just because a kid gets bad grades, doesn't mean they are bad kids.

Thats is correct. They're not bad, they're just stupid.

 

[Kur]

Here I am senior in highschool and I have all my credits all I need is my english credit and I am done. From personal experience it's lack of intrest, I would not read whole books and look at spark notes instead, why? The books boring, stupid and does'nt catch my intrest. They are trying to teach things that were intresting 10 years ago and hav'nt updated much since then. The issue they should be focusing on is how to keep kids in school more and to honest I think it's going to be teaching kids mostly threw visual learning. I dreaded coming to school days I knew we were going to read 3 sections of my english book or history book. I acually wanted to come to school when we acually had open discussion and this is when I would see 99% of my class there.

I just think that the schools need to update their learning to try and catch our attetnion more. In all honestly if you changed your teaching ways around a little to the current date and time less people would drop out. I'm not going to say everyone is not going to drop out but if kids wanna drop out and take on a full-time job let them. Watch them for a few years kicking themselves for dropping out.

BTW removing Junk food, and pop will not solve the problem. To stay awake in some classes I need a coke or something. I will admit to drinking orange juice and apple juice in the mornings somtimes but when you gotta have a coke, you gotta have a coke =D.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[mercanucaribe]

Originally posted by: mrSHEiK124

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
This is what happens when our culture no longer puts an emphasis on education.

Well said, getting laid, stoned, drunk, and/or killed in a car accident seems to be the #1 goal on the minds of most US teenagers.

Teenagers? Try college students shelling out thousands of dollars for an education.

 

[Accipiter22]

we did it to ourselves with the 'sports is cool!' mentality. Studying = gh3y. Then when we start failing and dropping out everyone wonders why. Used to be sports in school and society were for FUN and to keep in shape, now you have whole schools full of people that can't even graduate high school cause they completely neglected their studies.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Go watch MTV's Sweet Sixteen and you'll see what the problem is. America's children are so spoiled rotten that many feel that they DESERVE success. It will simply be handed to them on a silver platter.

Exactly, When mommy and daddy buy their kids everything they want, the kids have no motivation to go out and prepare for a career and pay for stuff on their own. They all think that I'll just live off of my parents.

 

[acole1]

What is wrong with America's high schools?

Illegal immigrants!!!!

...Eh, it's the subject of every other thread in AT so why not this one! You have got to love hot button issues.

/run

 

[Patrick Wolf]

What does it matter anyway, this country won't last forever, eventually we'll all be wiped out. Looking forward to the future....

 

[wazzledoozle]

Originally posted by: EyeMWing
-National uniform consisting of inexpensive clothing (blue jeans, button-down shirt)
... How about no. Put simply, this wouldn't be inexpensive for very long, because ultimately, people would end up selecting variations on the theme, no matter how strictly controlled, until the entire program settled on one acceptable vendor - who would then be free to price gouge as they see fit. Of course you could do it military style - they come up with their own form, and allow vendors to bid a la BDUs. But all that is just wholly unneccessary

-Segregate schools by gender until high school
Because the real world is gender-segregated.

-Year-round school (5 weeks summer vacation)
5 weeks summer vacation. Hold on, let me get my calendar.... Oh, wow, look at that, my high school had 6.

-College-like schedules (fewer but longer classes per day, based on MWF or TTr)
We did this. It rocked.

-Minimum 2.0 GPA requirement to play any high school sport
Many schools are already like this - and it's the way it should be.

-Encourage teachers to give a minimum of 2 hours combined homework per night (School is not just about learning but learning a work ethic)
Personally, I wouldn't set a minimum like that. In the real world, do you take your work home with you? Hell no, you stay and bill the company for your time. An hour or so is reasonable - 2hrs is becoming dangerously time consuming. Remember, we aren't trying to produce a bunch of geniuses - we're trying to produce a bunch of functional, well-rounded individuals. Sure, a lot of kids would end up using the excess time to ****** off, but it allows those that DO care time to do other things to further themselves.

-Pay teachers more, more like $80K/year to attract professionals from other industries
Where are you going to get that money from? And a few of my teachers were making $80k/year - until they were forced into retirement by some crapass legislation (the state of Maryland was running a program to increase retention of older (and better, more experienced) teachers by allowing them to re-sign onto a new contract and still collect the pension from their previous contract. And none of them were stupid enough to give up $40k and sign once that program was eliminated.

-Requirement to memorize the US Constitution and Bill of Rights before graduating
Memorize? How about UNDERSTAND.

-Mandatory Life-Economics class where students learn about credit cards, loans, checkbook balancing, and how to complete a 1040 form
We had that.

-Restrict sex/drugs/alcohol class to one week of study in high school biology class (9th grade where both abstinence and birth control are discussed. Condoms and other forms of BC would not be distributed in school)
Reality check: Teenagers are going to have sex. The human form was designed for that, it's built into every cell in our bodies. Better to make sure everyone knows what they can do to be responsible. So do it early. Like, 7th grade. And then later on, do it again - so the late bloomers have it all fresh in their mind. Like 10th grade. And then again at the end of 12th grade, so the nerds who are going to go crazy in college pay attention.

Drugs and alcohol should be done as appropriate for the specific population of students. If it's a problem for them, harass them about it. If not, let it be.

-Students who are discipline cases or simply refuse to learn would be forced into some sort of military-style school.
Yes.

-Students with learning disabilities would be placed in a special school. (Many teachers are forced to devote a majority of time to one or two challenged students while the rest go unchallenged.)
Definite yes.

-Teachers should not be allowed to simply teach towards the lowest common denominator. It should be the other way around.
The lowest common denominator should teach towards the teacher?


I know a lot of this is not PC, but it's the PC movement that is killing our education system.
Yup.

Our competitors in India and China force their kids to study from sun-up to sun-down and the entire family applies pressure. It's tough. The kids cry, get nervous, compete, fear for their future.
And look how hillariously successful India and China are. Stupidly overpopulated, poorly governed, and I'll tell you from first hand experience - while those Indians may be smart as hell and can program circles around Americans... They have absolute DICK for common sense and planning ability.

We need to be much harder on our kids here in the USA.
Some of them just need to be smacked.

If kids aren't crying because they got lower than a "B" then something is wrong.
I disagree. Not everyone is going to be good at everything - and if everyone is, the system is flawed.

Agreed! :thumbsup:

 

[JASANITY]

Shelbyville? bah. Springfield Rules!

 

[imported_goku]

Originally posted by: SagaLore
We have to get back to basics with our curriculum.

- Math
- English
- Science
- Geography/History

[/b]We need to feed students better food, remove vending machines, and replace soda with fruit juice and sports drinks.[/b]

We need better communication between parents and teachers. Perhaps we need to increase the student to counselor ratio, and assign counselors to a group of students (like advisors in college) who only focus on the group and track their progress from 8th/9th grade until graduation. Instead of teachers meeting with parents (and any given student can have a number of different teachers each semester), the counselors would be the mediators.

Haha, right because having fruit juice is SO MUCH HEALTHIER than a carbonated drink, cause you know, carbonation causes air to enter the brain therefore reducing IQ substantially... :roll: Fruit juice means jack sh1t, calorie intake is the same with fruit juice as it is with soda, PERIOD. I lost weight when I cut juice out of my diet entirely (soda/juice), now I drink soda every once in a while.