If our education system didn't try to "force" every HS student to prepare for four-years of Uni then maybe they wouldn't have this many dropouts. For some kids, it just isn't the best idea.
If our education system didn't try to "force" every HS student to prepare for four-years of Uni then maybe they wouldn't have this many dropouts. For some kids, it just isn't the best idea.
I think parenting is actually a huge problem in the US. A lot of parents seem to be way too lax. They dont keep track of their kids, let them do whatever they want, and spoil them. Kids just hang out all the time, get drunk and high, and just dont care about school.
Socialist education doesn't work. Privatize the public school system with vouchers. Problem solved.
Exactly. Kids make it to the 9th grade then realize they have to wade through another 4 years of classes that hardly apply to the real world...just so they can go to college and do the same (of course this depends on many variables).
Some kids just don't want to learn about physics, chemistry, calculus, and Shakespeare. I think they need the ability to learn a trade/skill instead.
- Nov 10, 2003
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Is it a private school? Not sure your suggestions will work in public school <PTA will not take it>. I like your suggestions but there are a few that I like to debate.
1. Nothing is wrong with "B". Yes, "A" would be great but not all students can get "A" in "every" subject. I think "B" average is a good requirement. "C" is not acceptable.
2. 70lbs of bookbag minimum? Are you serious? That's almost half the weight of an average highschool student...LOL.
3. Education suppose to be fun and desireable. Not like combat..tears,blood...yike..lol. Not sure stress andd nervous breakdown will help a student who is not doing so well in class.
I agree with more time need to spend on homework, kids need to pay more attention on classes and less on sports/entertainment/britney spear/what in/cool/etc.
I think students need to be teach in FINANCE, especially personal finance/econ. It is amazing how cluessless a typical American student is in finance. They also need to be more educate in foreign languages and culture.
We also need to set up two systems for HS students. One for college bound and one for trade school/not college bound. We need to cut down on the amount of tests <no child left behind program> or we will have test takers and not students.
So far, very good suggestions and debate and no name calling yet.. hehe
It's an obvious symptom that our educational system is failing. This quote is the most telling:
Rather than spending time assigning blame, we'd serve ourselves much better to decide on how to fix the system.[/quote]
How is that quote telling? Everyone is different, so different groups will always exist.
1) That won't help anything IMO, although the "rules" alrady in place should actually be enforced. How are guys supposed to concentrate in class if girls are wearing ridiculously short skirts (not that I ever complained about it).
2) Maybe...however it might make more sense to segregate schools during High School rather than before.
3) Agreed.
4) Agreed.
5) I thought that my previous school system already had this rule..
6) How many workers come home from their job then spend another 2 hours on work-related stuff? I don't that will help. However..I would be in favor of having an internship program where each student is required to reach a certain number of hours with an employer, learning a skill of somekind or at least gaining valuable experience.
7) Of course teachers should be paid more...absolutely. I just don't know how/when it will happen..
8) Makes sense to me.
9) Abso-fvcking-lutely. I've been saying this for years.
10) No comment.
11) The discipline situation in schools these days is horrible IMO. From what my parents tell me, if they had done half the sh!t that kids did these days they would have been punished severely.
12) Yep.
13) Yeah.
Negative. It isn't about pressure, it is about allocating the resources correctly. Sure, there are some kids who want to study that hard (for whatever reason) and cry if they got lower than a B on their report card, but many couldn't care less. I think these are the kids that should be "dealt" with. They need to find an area where they can succeed...maybe training to become a mechanic, electrician, plumber...you get the drift.
I'm an '84, went to Catholic schools all my life (Nothing strict, just like regular school but with uniforms and religion class). Uniforms are great in my opinion. Or at least a dress code. We want people to be more prepared for the workplace, so it's good to dress people professionally, or at least neat. But the best part about a uniform is that it allows kids to get rid of one of the "material things" in their school lives. Poor people will look the same as rich people. It gets rid of that divide.
There are a lot of theories on why these kids are failing. It's stupid to blame the kids themselves. Instead we have to look at how they're raised and what went wrong.
I believe that kids with two parents will have a better chance of succeeding, then kids from a broken home.
I beieve that more, and proper parental attention is needed. Instead of kids spending their time learning the basics from parents (motivation, goal setting, what success is, priorities, etc), a lot are immersed in media (MTV, video games, magazines) that send the wrong message to kids. Now i'm not blaming the media itself, we need parents (especially uncool parents) to keep things in perspective.
There are a lot of theories on why these kids are failing. It's stupid to blame the kids themselves. Instead we have to look at how they're raised and what went wrong.
I believe that kids with two parents will have a better chance of succeeding, then kids from a broken home.
I beieve that more, and proper parental attention is needed. Instead of kids spending their time learning the basics from parents (motivation, goal setting, what success is, priorities, etc), a lot are immersed in media (MTV, video games, magazines) that send the wrong message to kids. Now i'm not blaming the media itself, we need parents (especially uncool parents) to keep things in perspective.
How about actually spending more money on books, desk, computers, and learning material then on football fields, gyms, super-duper auditoriums, and teachers pay.
Teachers should get payed but based on how good they are. Some teachers really do know their stuff but are not exactly what I call teacher material. Kids at the high school level really need people that can do a good job explaining things to them.
But what it all does come down to is if the students really want to learn. We can help guide them and show them how to become a success but it is up to them if they truly want to become something in their lives.
Teachers should get payed but based on how good they are. Some teachers really do know their stuff but are not exactly what I call teacher material. Kids at the high school level really need people that can do a good job explaining things to them.
But what it all does come down to is if the students really want to learn. We can help guide them and show them how to become a success but it is up to them if they truly want to become something in their lives.
DrPizza
Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
I think that some of the biggest factors are completely ignored. In addition to being the fault of the children, you have to wonder "why do some kids feel that way?" Well, take a look at what they're watching on television. Watch some of the shows on MTV (someone already mentioned Sweet 16.) Or, watch Jackass. Or... The list goes on and on. Kids see these images of people they look up to, yet they are the opposite of what society on a whole should value (for its own good.) 40 years ago, children wanted to grow up to be astronauts, firemen, etc. Now, they want to grow up and have the rest of society giving them everything they could possibly ask for. Many of these kids feel they shouldn't have to work for anything.
While I believe this preceding paragraph to be true for many teens, that still doesn't cover all of them. In the inner cities, it pretty much *is* society's fault.
Also I think a good idea for schools would be to focus more on presentation skills, starting at a young age (ie show and tell). Then as the kids get older they present mini projects, ideas, group projects to the class, and develop their presentation, sales, and social skills amoung others. I've seen way too many shy kids that just didn't develop in this area that don't have too many friends and hated school because of it. Also having projects would offer a nice contrast from learning theory, and allow kids to apply what they learned so they can see how useful it is in real life. How many times have you heard the phrase "this stuff is useless, and I'll never use this in real life"
It makes me sick too, but I hope both of you realize that the girls on that show represent no more than 1-2 percent of the population.
DrPizza
Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
But, I think you're missing the point... it isn't those 1 percent (or less) of girls who aren't graduating from high school - it's the other people who develop a sense of entitlement after watching show after show after show that demonstrates to them that life should be handed to them on a silver platter. These people having a great time never have to work for anything, so why should anyone else?
GeekDrew
Diamond Member
- Jun 7, 2000
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That goes back to taxes and the public donating money.
In my experience (with multiple public schools in central Ohio), general funds are not used for fields, gyms, or auditoriums. "Booster" organizations are needed to take care of that. At the local high school, the athletic department has a Bingo department -- the proceeds from the bi-weekly Bingo games they have are what pays for the gymnasiums, athletic trips, all sports teams and supplies, sports complexes and buildings, and sports fields.
Similarly, the music boosters are who pays for auditoriums, music supplies, trips, etc. A little bit is taken from general funds, but it's trivially little. Some funding is also provided by grants from the state, that can only be used for music.
As for teacher salaries... what, do you want them reduced? We already have some teachers making so little that they cannot survive on a day-to-day basis, and are on welfare or food stamps.
The money allocated to public education, in general, is pathetically little. We have five or six school issues on our ballot for the May 2nd Primary election in my county, and one of them is an "EMERGENCY OPERATIONS" issue... meaning that the school is bankrupt and must immediately have more money, or it will be forced to close. They've already stopped all non-required activities (sports, etc.) that is not solely paid for by booster organizations or families. Some schools are discussing terminating transportation departments... though they haven't quite figured out how to handle that, when they have elementary students at their schools from up to 25 miles away.
I'd like to see the money earmarked for the Department of Defense given to the Department of Education. Let the DoD hold a bake sale to buy their next aircraft carrier.
Won't matter too much, if I understand correctly, funding for education has been cut (at least in our state). Allows those who actually try to go into college have a better chance of getting grants and scholarships.
If it's been discussed and I have been shown wrong in this thread, I do apologize because I just skimmed the OP and had this to say without reading the replies.
If it's been discussed and I have been shown wrong in this thread, I do apologize because I just skimmed the OP and had this to say without reading the replies.
yhelothar
Lifer
- Dec 11, 2002
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I think the problem is largely on the way high school teaches. You can easily notice that the teaching style in high school is a lot different than the teaching style in college.
High school doesn't not even really encourage kids to learn, but to do work. Your success in high school is dependent on the amount of work you do. I see people all the time with 3.5's to 4.0's that never really grasp's what they learned. But hey, they can go to the book and copy the answers to the questions. No critical thinking is involved.
Maybe people would be interested in learning when you're encouraged to learn, and not to just do work. And that is shown to work. In college, they don't care if people do work or not, they only care if people has learned the material, and I notice a lot more people care about learning.
High school doesn't not even really encourage kids to learn, but to do work. Your success in high school is dependent on the amount of work you do. I see people all the time with 3.5's to 4.0's that never really grasp's what they learned. But hey, they can go to the book and copy the answers to the questions. No critical thinking is involved.
Maybe people would be interested in learning when you're encouraged to learn, and not to just do work. And that is shown to work. In college, they don't care if people do work or not, they only care if people has learned the material, and I notice a lot more people care about learning.
Over here, it's more that kids get the 'option' to drop out. The governement decides how much funding a HS gets by reviewing the average grade. That means that about once a month, a lot of bad-performing students 'drop out'. (They give you a choice between dropping out or going to a special class for people who aren't good in school, consuming 4 extra hours a day and half a Saturday.)
AznAnarchy99
Lifer
- Dec 6, 2004
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I forgot about that aspect of my school also. My school has the same type of dress code. They would rather have their school more presentable to the public so they care so much about a dress code and spend so much time dealing with it rather than more important things. They say its for the gangs but ill tell you if someone is banging, they are going to wear their colors anyway so whats the point? I mean i have no problem tucking my shirt in for something formal but everyday with something like a t-shirt?
sandorski
No Lifer
- Oct 10, 1999
- 70,783
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Unrealistic expectations. Dr Pizza touched on one aspect of this, Entitlement, but I think there's a whole other opposite effect inplay. That is, a sense that one can/will never succeed. From birth we see "Successful" people living happy livees on TV/Movies/etc and all(or the vast majority) these people have a few common traits, which I'll sum up as Wealthy Materialists who even during "tough" times live way above the standard the average person lives. Not everyone can aspire to these positions of "Success" and when that becomes clear to many, why waste the time trying?
That certainly isn't the whole problem, but I think there is a deep rooted Cultural aspect that completely ignores the Reality that most people live in.
That certainly isn't the whole problem, but I think there is a deep rooted Cultural aspect that completely ignores the Reality that most people live in.
In order for education to be successful, kids need to have an incentive to learn. Jamming it down their throat does not work. You can impose all the harsh penalties for failure you want--that will not make them succeed. Also they are smarter than we give them credit for in terms of the realities of the world--this is in fact what dissuades them from attempting to accell. They see that our country is going down the toilet, and that the world is not a nice place to be at times. They have to feel it is worth doing something about to achieve adulthood.
yhelothar
Lifer
- Dec 11, 2002
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"I think the big mistake in schools is trying to teach children anything, and by using fear as the basic motivation. Fear of getting failing grades, fear of not staying with your class, etc. Interest can produce learning on a scale compared to fear as a nuclear explosion to a firecracker." - Stanley Kubrick
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