Nitemare
Lifer
- Feb 8, 2001
- 35,466
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Originally posted by: blackangst1
All of the above, in certain circumstances.
It's not like you are chopping off body parts or have a gun to their loved ones heads...
Originally posted by: blackangst1
All of the above, in certain circumstances.
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Wow, quite a story, and very well written. It certainly makes an outstanding appeal to emotion.Originally posted by: GrGr
It's not the first time I have heard that psychological torture is worse than physical. That means sleep depravation, noise torture, disorientation etc. Are those not the methods you are advocating, Palehorse?
I won't speak for palehorse, but if that's what it takes, that's what it takes.
Then how do you complain when anyone else 'does what it takes' to you?
The arrogance of those lucky enough to be born in a powerful nation - what was 'what it takes' regarding the US overthrow of democracy in Iran? Its keeping the Saudi regime in power oppressing Saudis in exchange for access to oil? Its killing of millions who wanted to be free of colonial occupation in Vietnam? The victims in Nicaragua of the US's terrorist Contra army?
The people of your political ilk are the ones who belong first in the line for torture for your own wrongs to others. The fact you merely call for torture of others while having the luxury of a powerful nation puts you among the evil thugs of history, the masses who have complacently tolerated wrongs when it was for their benefit.
Pacifism is not a workable ideology in the world at this time. When man evolves to a point where it is, you and I will likely have been dead for thousands of years.
I just can't understand why people have to deny what they are?
We were created in the image of what came before us, and it did torture. The ultimate argument,,,does God exist or not is not that old, and it has no place in modern civilizations.Originally posted by: Moonbeam
We were created in the image of God and God doesn't torture.
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Wow, quite a story, and very well written. It certainly makes an outstanding appeal to emotion.Originally posted by: GrGr
It's not the first time I have heard that psychological torture is worse than physical. That means sleep depravation, noise torture, disorientation etc. Are those not the methods you are advocating, Palehorse?
I won't speak for palehorse, but if that's what it takes, that's what it takes.
Then how do you complain when anyone else 'does what it takes' to you?
The arrogance of those lucky enough to be born in a powerful nation - what was 'what it takes' regarding the US overthrow of democracy in Iran? Its keeping the Saudi regime in power oppressing Saudis in exchange for access to oil? Its killing of millions who wanted to be free of colonial occupation in Vietnam? The victims in Nicaragua of the US's terrorist Contra army?
The people of your political ilk are the ones who belong first in the line for torture for your own wrongs to others. The fact you merely call for torture of others while having the luxury of a powerful nation puts you among the evil thugs of history, the masses who have complacently tolerated wrongs when it was for their benefit.
Pacifism is not a workable ideology in the world at this time. When man evolves to a point where it is, you and I will likely have been dead for thousands of years.
I just can't understand why people have to deny what they are?
Pacifism has virtually nothing to do with the topic under discussion; it's a straw man, like my equating the Iraq war to nuking every country in the middle east.
But I understand it helps people who hold your views have a nice simplistic set of positions based on 'well, we can't surrender to Osama bin Laden, so we HAVE to allow torture'.
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
We were created in the image of God and God doesn't torture.
Originally posted by: Ozoned
I recall my wife giving our children time-outs when they were little. She gave them choices. They had to decide upon the choice that she wanted them to choose to get out of the corner. I guess we teach our children torture...
Originally posted by: Ozoned
I recall my wife giving our children time-outs when they were little. She gave them choices. They had to decide upon the choice that she wanted them to choose to get out of the corner. I guess we teach our children torture...
Originally posted by: Orignal Earl
Originally posted by: Ozoned
I recall my wife giving our children time-outs when they were little. She gave them choices. They had to decide upon the choice that she wanted them to choose to get out of the corner. I guess we teach our children torture...
I disciplined mine a little different
First off, all of them were punished when one misbehaved
Everyone of em was stripped down bareass naked and then I put their hoods on
I always kept the hoods hanging around the house, so they could always see them
Next they knelt in the corner and I yelled out the back door for my neighbor Jeb to bring the dogs over
The kids were terrified of those dobi's lol
Jeb would get the dogs all riles up and bring them over on a couple of leashes and we'd let the dogs get right up close so the kids could feel the heat off em
All in all, the whole thing was over in less then a half hour
Oh, and if a person has Faith in their life, they should also tell the kids they will burn in hell for eternity for the offense
Some of the kids are doing great, one is a Politician and another one is a preacher
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: Orignal Earl
Originally posted by: Ozoned
I recall my wife giving our children time-outs when they were little. She gave them choices. They had to decide upon the choice that she wanted them to choose to get out of the corner. I guess we teach our children torture...
I disciplined mine a little different
First off, all of them were punished when one misbehaved
Everyone of em was stripped down bareass naked and then I put their hoods on
I always kept the hoods hanging around the house, so they could always see them
Next they knelt in the corner and I yelled out the back door for my neighbor Jeb to bring the dogs over
The kids were terrified of those dobi's lol
Jeb would get the dogs all riles up and bring them over on a couple of leashes and we'd let the dogs get right up close so the kids could feel the heat off em
All in all, the whole thing was over in less then a half hour
Oh, and if a person has Faith in their life, they should also tell the kids they will burn in hell for eternity for the offense
Some of the kids are doing great, one is a Politician and another one is a preacher
pics or shens!
Originally posted by: blackangst1
pics or shens!
Originally posted by: Orignal Earl
Originally posted by: blackangst1
pics or shens!
N.S.F.W. , then again it's only a little
2) Stress positions
3) Sleep deprivation
4) Temperature fluctuations
5) Darkness / Brightness
6) Loud noises or music
7) Isolation
So should be acceptable, right?
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I think Cyclo Wizard has it about right here:
I would naively define torture as applying distress to obtain information. Distress could be mental, physical, emotional, or perhaps even verbal. I might instead define torture as the violation of basic human dignity in an effort to obtain information.
I believe it's torture simply for the fact that it involves the "threat" or "perception" of imminent death - similar to mock executions or placing a machete on the table - and it took me many years of introspection to finalize that decision, because of the general lack of physical harm involved.Originally posted by: QuantumPion
That being said, I do not think waterboarding is torture, as it doesn't fit the description of inflicting extreme pain or anguish.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who laughed.To the poster a few pages back that described waterboarding as pouring water down someone's lungs: waterboarding is pouring water over someones face. The towel or plastic prevents the water from being inhaled. Inhaling water into your lungs, even a small amount, would be fatal. Filling lungs 1/3 full of water would cause instant suffocation. I don't know where you got that description but it was so ludicrous it made me laugh out loud at your ignorance.
OK, now THAT was big funny! :laugh: But you might have to explain it to some of the younger folks...I think you are confusing waterboarding with Chappaquiddick'ing.
Criminals in U.S. prisons react the same way to confinement, and some are even worse. Are they being "tortured" as well? Should we free any/all prisoners who go crazy in jail?Originally posted by: GrGr
UK Guantanamo detainee near suicide after years of torture, doctors warn
By Robert Verkaik, Law Editor
Published: 18 December 2007
The Independent
A British resident being held in Guantanamo Bay may be close to suicide after five years of captivity and torture at the hands of the Americans, the Foreign Secretary David Miliband has been warned in a medical report sent to the Government this week.
The report concludes that Binyam Mohamed, from Kensington, west London, is at the end of his "psychological tether" after guards at the US naval base in Cuba switched off the water supply to his cell when he began spreading his own faeces over the walls. Mr Mohamed is one of at least seven detainees being held at Guantanamo Bay who claim British residency. Three of the men are expected to be reunited with their families before Christmas after the Government successfully negotiated their release. But the Americans have made it clear that Mr Mohamed must remain in detention to face a military tribunal on charges of terrorism.
etc.
-------------------------------
Wohoo, twist them till they break. Then you may get a confession out of them. If it is worth anything as they are insane by then.
Wake me up when you have something other than hearsay regarding "physical abuse" and "torture" at Gitmo.Dr Creson's medical evaluation was based on interviews with Mr Mohamed and a mental health questionnaire completed with the help of Reprieve
Originally posted by: QuantumPion
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I think Cyclo Wizard has it about right here:
I would naively define torture as applying distress to obtain information. Distress could be mental, physical, emotional, or perhaps even verbal. I might instead define torture as the violation of basic human dignity in an effort to obtain information.
That includes pretty much everything including police interrogations, good cop/bad cop, yelling at someone, giving someone 10 cubs of coffee so they have to pee REALLY BAD, rhetorical trickery, etc. I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that these are not torture.
Torture doesn't necessarily have anything to do with extracting information. Torture is simply the infliction of extreme pain or anguish, simple as that. Saddam Hussein tortured his own citizens to frighten his populace into submission. His sons tortured people simply for their own amusement.
I agree that using torture as a means of extracting information is morally wrong and usually doesn't work anyway. That being said, I do not think waterboarding is torture, as it doesn't fit the description of inflicting extreme pain or anguish.
Criminals in U.S. prisons react the same way to confinement, and some are even worse. Are they being "tortured" as well? Should we free any/all prisoners who go crazy in jail?
Wake me up when you have something other than hearsay regarding "physical abuse" and "torture" at Gitmo.
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Criminals in U.S. prisons react the same way to confinement, and some are even worse. Are they being "tortured" as well? Should we free any/all prisoners who go crazy in jail?Originally posted by: GrGr
UK Guantanamo detainee near suicide after years of torture, doctors warn
By Robert Verkaik, Law Editor
Published: 18 December 2007
The Independent
A British resident being held in Guantanamo Bay may be close to suicide after five years of captivity and torture at the hands of the Americans, the Foreign Secretary David Miliband has been warned in a medical report sent to the Government this week.
The report concludes that Binyam Mohamed, from Kensington, west London, is at the end of his "psychological tether" after guards at the US naval base in Cuba switched off the water supply to his cell when he began spreading his own faeces over the walls. Mr Mohamed is one of at least seven detainees being held at Guantanamo Bay who claim British residency. Three of the men are expected to be reunited with their families before Christmas after the Government successfully negotiated their release. But the Americans have made it clear that Mr Mohamed must remain in detention to face a military tribunal on charges of terrorism.
etc.
-------------------------------
Wohoo, twist them till they break. Then you may get a confession out of them. If it is worth anything as they are insane by then.
Wake me up when you have something other than hearsay regarding "physical abuse" and "torture" at Gitmo.Dr Creson's medical evaluation was based on interviews with Mr Mohamed and a mental health questionnaire completed with the help of Reprieve
I see nothing wrong with allowing Mr. Muhammed to receive professional counseling from cleared psychologists. I believe any prisoner should have access to proper mental health treatments... but they can receive said treatment right where they are - that is, IN jail.
It is my understanding that we DO have such mental health professionals on-site at Gitmo...
So what would you suggest we do to properly treat mentally ill detainees at Gitmo? Or at any other U.S. prison for that matter?Originally posted by: GrGr
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Criminals in U.S. prisons react the same way to confinement, and some are even worse. Are they being "tortured" as well? Should we free any/all prisoners who go crazy in jail?Originally posted by: GrGr
UK Guantanamo detainee near suicide after years of torture, doctors warn
By Robert Verkaik, Law Editor
Published: 18 December 2007
The Independent
A British resident being held in Guantanamo Bay may be close to suicide after five years of captivity and torture at the hands of the Americans, the Foreign Secretary David Miliband has been warned in a medical report sent to the Government this week.
The report concludes that Binyam Mohamed, from Kensington, west London, is at the end of his "psychological tether" after guards at the US naval base in Cuba switched off the water supply to his cell when he began spreading his own faeces over the walls. Mr Mohamed is one of at least seven detainees being held at Guantanamo Bay who claim British residency. Three of the men are expected to be reunited with their families before Christmas after the Government successfully negotiated their release. But the Americans have made it clear that Mr Mohamed must remain in detention to face a military tribunal on charges of terrorism.
etc.
-------------------------------
Wohoo, twist them till they break. Then you may get a confession out of them. If it is worth anything as they are insane by then.
Wake me up when you have something other than hearsay regarding "physical abuse" and "torture" at Gitmo.Dr Creson's medical evaluation was based on interviews with Mr Mohamed and a mental health questionnaire completed with the help of Reprieve
I see nothing wrong with allowing Mr. Muhammed to receive professional counseling from cleared psychologists. I believe any prisoner should have access to proper mental health treatments... but they can receive said treatment right where they are - that is, IN jail.
It is my understanding that we DO have such mental health professionals on-site at Gitmo...
This guy got the 'US treatment' not only in Gitmo according to the article.
Also 'mental health professionals' being part of torture practices is frowned upon by many psychologists. CIA psychologists played a huge part in developing US torture practices.
Originally posted by: palehorse74
So what would you suggest we do to properly treat mentally ill detainees at Gitmo? Or at any other U.S. prison for that matter?Originally posted by: GrGr
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Criminals in U.S. prisons react the same way to confinement, and some are even worse. Are they being "tortured" as well? Should we free any/all prisoners who go crazy in jail?Originally posted by: GrGr
UK Guantanamo detainee near suicide after years of torture, doctors warn
By Robert Verkaik, Law Editor
Published: 18 December 2007
The Independent
A British resident being held in Guantanamo Bay may be close to suicide after five years of captivity and torture at the hands of the Americans, the Foreign Secretary David Miliband has been warned in a medical report sent to the Government this week.
The report concludes that Binyam Mohamed, from Kensington, west London, is at the end of his "psychological tether" after guards at the US naval base in Cuba switched off the water supply to his cell when he began spreading his own faeces over the walls. Mr Mohamed is one of at least seven detainees being held at Guantanamo Bay who claim British residency. Three of the men are expected to be reunited with their families before Christmas after the Government successfully negotiated their release. But the Americans have made it clear that Mr Mohamed must remain in detention to face a military tribunal on charges of terrorism.
etc.
-------------------------------
Wohoo, twist them till they break. Then you may get a confession out of them. If it is worth anything as they are insane by then.
Wake me up when you have something other than hearsay regarding "physical abuse" and "torture" at Gitmo.Dr Creson's medical evaluation was based on interviews with Mr Mohamed and a mental health questionnaire completed with the help of Reprieve
I see nothing wrong with allowing Mr. Muhammed to receive professional counseling from cleared psychologists. I believe any prisoner should have access to proper mental health treatments... but they can receive said treatment right where they are - that is, IN jail.
It is my understanding that we DO have such mental health professionals on-site at Gitmo...
This guy got the 'US treatment' not only in Gitmo according to the article.
Also 'mental health professionals' being part of torture practices is frowned upon by many psychologists. CIA psychologists played a huge part in developing US torture practices.