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what is the underlying reason why health care is so expensive?

B

BlahBlahYouToo

Lifer
we all know it costs a lot to go for a checkup, get an MRI, get prescription drugs, or god forbid a visit to the ER.
health insurance premiums are something like $400/mo. per individual.
costs just keep going up and without a solution, it doesn't seem like it will ever end.

what is the reason for this?

is it malpractice lawsuits, which causes doctors insurance to go up, and they pass the costs to us?
is it that we're getting fatter and unhealthier, requiring more hospital visits?
is it pharmaceuticals and their constant barrage of prime time advertising making drugs more expensive, and doctors getting kickbacks to prescribe their drugs (my own conspiracy theory)?

what can be done to reign in these costs to make it more affordable?
 
Passing the buck. People are on the govt program they never see the true cost. People with health insurance rarely see the cost. All we see is a bump in premiums as the cost is spread over millions of people.

If we had to foot more of the bill on some of these procedures it would reduce our demand and increase the supply. Right now, like education, it is a perfect storm of public and private financing that is pushing the costs higher and higher as more people use the systems and the systems conitnue to pay.

I dont find it coincidental that once the govt got involved in paying for some parts of our healthcare the cost of healthcare has grown beyond inflation.
 
govt and insurance middle men have inserted themelves between the patient and providers for even the simplest of procedures and services. they must take their cut from every little thing which necessarily drives up the costs. having this layer of abstraction (taxpayer pays govt, govt pays dr) or (employee pays premium to insurance, insurance pays dr - and in this case even more convoluted due to employer subsidy) prevents the free market from really working, since the middle men are in EVERY transaction they can essentially set the price. prescription drugs are only so expensive bc insurance drives up the price.

as i said in a different thread - health insurance should operate more like home and auto insurance. its cheap, and it covers (INSURES) you in an emergency.

can you imagine filing a claim everytime you replaced your airfilters, changed a light bulb, or cleaned your ducts? what about changing your oil or getting a flat tire? of course not, so why do we tolerate involving insurance in the most basic things of preventive medicine like teeth cleaning, eye exams and physicals? Letting the insurance companies get in between the patient and the provider just jack up costs for everyone. I want peace of mind that if something terrible happens I will be taken care of, but I cringe at the fact my doc is going to have to be fight my insurance to pay for a routine procedure that has been made artificially expensive just to pay off the middleman.
 
You're all wrong. It's the malpractice insurance premiums that Dr.'s have to pay and they have to be so careful and order all kinds of test in order to make a diagnosis that are unecessary most of the time.
 
Originally posted by: Genx87
Passing the buck. People are on the govt program they never see the true cost. People with health insurance rarely see the cost. All we see is a bump in premiums as the cost is spread over millions of people.

If we had to foot more of the bill on some of these procedures it would reduce our demand and increase the supply. Right now, like education, it is a perfect storm of public and private financing that is pushing the costs higher and higher as more people use the systems and the systems conitnue to pay.

I dont find it coincidental that once the govt got involved in paying for some parts of our healthcare the cost of healthcare has grown beyond inflation.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't be so quick to blame this on the government.

I, for instance, was flabbergasted by the charges presented relating to my wife's pregnancies. We had a charge for something like $18 for two tylenol (I know, there's a lot of people & infrastructure involved in getting that tylenol to us, but it's still $18 for $.08 of medication). We weren't informed of any pricing up front, nor does the system encourage such.

Obfuscating the prices for medical care works to benefit all parties involved - except the consumer. Suppliers (doctors, hospitals, pharmacists) can charge more. Insurance companies can have higher premiums to cover the staggering costs. People pay higher premiums because "it's better than risking a single hospital trip bankrupting me". It's a vicious circle.
 
the poor, my wife works in retail...they have an assistant manager that just the other day was bragging how whenever she needs a doctor she just calls an ambulance. She was bragging about how much she 'owes' everyone, but medical bills are 'fake'.

She doesn't elect to take company insurance.

 
If you've ever worked for a major healthcare provider, you'd know why. I worked for Kaiser Permanente for 3.5 years. One of the most inefficient, wasteful companies I've ever worked for. I didn't work in hospitals though, I worked on the business side. But from the way hiring was handled, to the way they managed their computer inventory and a million other things, it was easy to see why they would have to charge a lot of money in the hospitals to make up for the money the business side wasted. Obviously this isn't the only reason why, but for Kaiser I'm sure it's a large part of it.

 
Originally posted by: rivan
Originally posted by: Genx87
Passing the buck. People are on the govt program they never see the true cost. People with health insurance rarely see the cost. All we see is a bump in premiums as the cost is spread over millions of people.

If we had to foot more of the bill on some of these procedures it would reduce our demand and increase the supply. Right now, like education, it is a perfect storm of public and private financing that is pushing the costs higher and higher as more people use the systems and the systems conitnue to pay.

I dont find it coincidental that once the govt got involved in paying for some parts of our healthcare the cost of healthcare has grown beyond inflation.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't be so quick to blame this on the government.

I, for instance, was flabbergasted by the charges presented relating to my wife's pregnancies. We had a charge for something like $18 for two tylenol (I know, there's a lot of people & infrastructure involved in getting that tylenol to us, but it's still $18 for $.08 of medication). We weren't informed of any pricing up front, nor does the system encourage such.

Obfuscating the prices for medical care works to benefit all parties involved - except the consumer. Suppliers (doctors, hospitals, pharmacists) can charge more. Insurance companies can have higher premiums to cover the staggering costs. People pay higher premiums because "it's better than risking a single hospital trip bankrupting me". It's a vicious circle.
Click to expand...

The combination public\private insurance is killing us on the backend. Nobody cares because nobody see's the true cost. Well the people no insured do.

I think you and I are agreeing on this btw 😉
 
Originally posted by: TwiceOver
Lawyers.
Click to expand...

Yes and no

It definitely hurts things though the way malpractice suits work. There are very few cases that actually payout. And the ones that do, are usually pretty obvious ones. Sure, there are BS cases, but as a judge once told me, when a malpractice suit comes up, and its legit, it's usually settled long before court comes into play. The questionable and BS ones go to court. I got stuck on a malpractice suit for jury duty and after we sided with the doctor, the judge talked to us privately.

The part that sucks is that the doctor's insurance rates go up regardless of the outcome of the lawsuit.
 
A combination if lawyers, the high degree of training, and the large amount of regulation.

To release a product that we might make only 500 of, it requires us to undergo around $50,000 worth of agency testing. That doesn't include the cost of the employees required to support them. We have an entire department that deals with only the regulatory filings. Our typical gross profit margin may be huge, but the net isn't at all.
 
Originally posted by: jemcam
You're all wrong. It's the malpractice insurance premiums that Dr.'s have to pay and they have to be so careful and order all kinds of test in order to make a diagnosis that are unecessary most of the time.
Click to expand...

This
 
Outrageous salaries of health care workers. An anesthesiologist doesnt need to make $400,000.00 per year, a nurse doesnt need to make $250,000.00 a year and a health administrator doesnt need to make $150,000.00+. Subsidize their educations, immunize them from lawsuits but hold them criminally liable only and have a "healthcare worker appreciation day".

Also cheap meds from Canada.

Fixed. :light:
 
Originally posted by: HardcoreRobot
govt and insurance middle men have inserted themelves between the patient and providers for even the simplest of procedures and services. they must take their cut from every little thing which necessarily drives up the costs. having this layer of abstraction (taxpayer pays govt, govt pays dr) or (employee pays premium to insurance, insurance pays dr - and in this case even more convoluted due to employer subsidy) prevents the free market from really working, since the middle men are in EVERY transaction they can essentially set the price. prescription drugs are only so expensive bc insurance drives up the price.

as i said in a different thread - health insurance should operate more like home and auto insurance. its cheap, and it covers (INSURES) you in an emergency.

can you imagine filing a claim everytime you replaced your airfilters, changed a light bulb, or cleaned your ducts? what about changing your oil or getting a flat tire? of course not, so why do we tolerate involving insurance in the most basic things of preventive medicine like teeth cleaning, eye exams and physicals? Letting the insurance companies get in between the patient and the provider just jack up costs for everyone. I want peace of mind that if something terrible happens I will be taken care of, but I cringe at the fact my doc is going to have to be fight my insurance to pay for a routine procedure that has been made artificially expensive just to pay off the middleman.
Click to expand...

i agree. inefficiencies in the system are a huge problem.
and i agree that it should operate similar to auto insurance.

we need reform and we need it soon.
lots of employers are having to subsidize a huge portion of expensive medical premiums... definitely not an incentive for them to hire more employees.
some small biz owners are finding it impossible to even provide health care coverage for their employees and themselves because it's gotten so out of hand.
 
Originally posted by: FelixDeKat
Outrageous salaries of health care workers. An anesthesiologist doesnt need to make $400,000.00 per year, a nurse doesnt need to make $250,000.00 a year and a health administrator doesnt need to make $150,000.00+. Subsidize their educations, immunize them from lawsuits but hold them criminally liable only and have a "healthcare worker appreciation day".

Also cheap meds from Canada.

Fixed. :light:
Click to expand...

while we're no this topic, i'll throw in unions (nurses).
 
People that can't afford health insurance that instead just don't pay at all.
I was in the ER with my wife, and some girl in her 20s walked up to the counter, they asked what was wrong, and she said she had a cold.
 
Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo
Originally posted by: FelixDeKat
Outrageous salaries of health care workers. An anesthesiologist doesnt need to make $400,000.00 per year, a nurse doesnt need to make $250,000.00 a year and a health administrator doesnt need to make $150,000.00+. Subsidize their educations, immunize them from lawsuits but hold them criminally liable only and have a "healthcare worker appreciation day".

Also cheap meds from Canada.

Fixed. :light:
Click to expand...

while we're no this topic, i'll throw in unions (nurses).
Click to expand...

Dont throw in unions, throw out unions. They ruin everything.
 
Its the unions (AMA, nurses, etc) that keep the supply of medical personal low and their salaries high. The hardest place to become a medical personal is in the United States. Some people say this is to make sure that US has "qualified" doctors, surgeons, etc. However, study after study finds that the United States does not have the best medical personal. Places where its easier to become a doctor (IIRC, Switzerland, Singapore, etc) have better care. Hence, the barriers are there only to inflate salaries.
 
Originally posted by: HardcoreRobot
govt and insurance middle men have inserted themelves between the patient and providers for even the simplest of procedures and services. they must take their cut from every little thing which necessarily drives up the costs. having this layer of abstraction (taxpayer pays govt, govt pays dr) or (employee pays premium to insurance, insurance pays dr - and in this case even more convoluted due to employer subsidy) prevents the free market from really working, since the middle men are in EVERY transaction they can essentially set the price. prescription drugs are only so expensive bc insurance drives up the price.
Click to expand...

except the reality is that insurers have driven down costs by squeezing doctors and hospitals.
 
Originally posted by: eleison
Its the unions (AMA, nurses, etc) that keep the supply of medical personal low and their salaries high. The hardest place to become a medical personal is in the United States. Some people say this is to make sure that US has "qualified" doctors, surgeons, etc. However, study after study finds that the United States does not have the best medical personal. Places where its easier to become a doctor (IIRC, Switzerland, Singapore, etc) have better care. Hence, the barriers are there only to inflate salaries.
Click to expand...

If you think USA is hard, try Canada...
 
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