What is the ultimate end of man?

[atomicbomberman]

Hmm.. my motto is that Religion is generally a VERY VERY BAD IDEA!!! And a bad invention by men to shift what they don't know and blame some omipotent beings..

And this is not a religious discussion.

the ultimate end of men.. as quoted from Scott Adam

The world have three distinct classes of people, each with its own evolutionary destiny:

1. Knowledgeable computer users who will eventually evolve into godlike non-corporeal beings who rule the Universe.
2. Computer owners who try to "pass" as knowledgeable but secretly use a hand calculator to add totals for their Excelspreadsheets. This group will gravitate toward jobs as high school principals and operators of pet crematoriums. Eventually, they will become extinct.
3. Non-computer users who will eventually grow tails, sit in zoos, and fling dung at tourists.

And BTW.. the reason why they're true is because in the furture, computer-using men will be the sexiest males. =)

And the dawn of the Nerd Empires begin! =)

Scott Adams - The Dilbert Future

 

[wviperw]

Arrrggghhh!!! You guys are jumping to all kinds of different topics.


Eli - Where does it say religions are an abomination in the Bible? There were churches in the NT, and it says that we should join together with other believers and commune with them.

Dirf - Ok, if you don't believe in a god, then how do you explain that humans have reason to make moral decisions? What could this reason be coming from? If humans are just another "animal" then how can we possibly know what is right and wrong? I think God put in each of us the ability to discern right from wrong.

Validicity of the Bible- Since the Bible was inspired by God, it has to be 100% w/o error (inerrant). Inspiration means "carried along", or God chose a human to actually write the words, but God actually inspired it. If the Bible had even one error, then we couldn't believe any of it. So you have to believe it is inerrant. Of course you don't know for sure if it is inerrant (nor do you know for sure if there is a god), but you have to have faith mixed with the proofs that you do have. Many of the stories/facts in the Bible are recorded in other reliable sources, which would validate some of the Bible. Parts of the Bible that we know to be true could validate other parts of the Bible, such as the verse that say something about the OT ending with the prophet Malachi. Jesus of course reference to the OT. The OT prophesizes about the NT and it comes true. Other books that were not included in the Bible are not inspired by God. We know this either because they contain something that contradicts the Bible, or they were not chosen by the early church. The early church was lead by God to choose ONLY the books inspired, and that is how we know they all are inspired. The Bibles we have today, though they may have small grammatical errors, still are 100% true in their ideas.

(sorry for the lack of organization in that paragraph, I kinda said everything that came to me)

 

[FrontlineWarrior]

<< because in the furture, computer-using men will be the sexiest males. =) >>



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

 

[eia430]

qacwac, you said...

&quot;Every intent of man's heart is evil. so it is eay to believe mena would take perfection and fit it to their selfish motives.&quot;

This is the reason that I trust the church about as far as I can throw it. But unfortunately it is also the same reason why I cannot accept the Bible as 100% God's work or 100% correct. Which leaves me in exactly the same place I've been the past decade or so. I'm still searching, looking for the least (I gave up on totaly) corrupt church or organization. I've looked at my own (roman catholic) for a very long time and see the worst corruption. You might not like this, but the least corrupt to me as turned out to be the Mormon church. But that is from a corruption standpoint, there are many quirks about their beliefs that I'm not sure I could live with. I guess my search continues...

 

[eia430]

wviperw, Interesting point of view you have about the validity of the Bible. Since it (according to you) is 100% God's work and was done under God's insperation why is it so easy to.....

1. Use the Bible to convince husbands to let david koresh to sleep with their wives and daughters? He used &quot;proof&quot; from the Bible and it worked.

2. Use the Bible to convince people to move to south america then eventualy drink poison to &quot;be with God&quot; ??? (jonestown massacre)

3. Be used by various popes and kings to do what they please, be it kill people, plunder land or whatever ends they desire. The Bible is their &quot;proof&quot; their support for all the evil they do.

How is it God's inspired work is so easy to use to promote evil? These people that are victimized by evil people all had one thing in common. They had faith in the Bible that was so strong that the Bible was used to guide them to all sorts of things, including their deaths. Of course where was God's caring for those that had absolutely unwaivering faith in the Bible? It was nowhere to be seen, these people died because of their faith. This is why I don't trust the church, or believe that the Bible is 100% God's work. Never mind what I feel when I read some scriptures. I just need to look at the death and devestation that happens when people blindly follow because of their faith.

 

[MrPALCO]

<< I just need to look at the death and devestation that happens when people blindly follow because of their faith. >>



Would The followers of these men qualify as blind?

Darwin, Hitler, College Prof, Clinton, Koresh, Jones, Gore, Lenin,
The Greatful Dead, Alexander, Judas, Marylin Manson, Arafat, ect.....

History is full of men that said they were with God, and lost.

Perhaps it would be Wisdom to go directly to God, for leadership.

History is full of Men that have found and followed God, and won.

 

[wviperw]

eia430:
People are imperfect unlike God. Often times someone will read parts of the Bible out of context. Like the poison thing. Sure it says in ONE verse that they drank poison from snakes and did not die, but you have to look at the context, the verses around it. This will show you that it was a special circumstance (sorry I don't know the passage and exactly what it is), and that drinking poison is not for today. Of course an imperfect being is going to be able to get something out of the Bible that is not right their own eyes, but you could say the same about somebody getting something good from the Satanic bible(or whatever).

Now you say, &quot;then why should anybody believe it to be 100% correct if you can interpret it wrong?&quot;. Well, we just have to take what is in the Bible and compare it to other things in the Bible to see if it is right. There has been all kinds of misinterpretations of the Bible in history. But that doesn't make the Bible wrong.

 

[qacwac]

to eli: What is a pure life? I would say that living according to the Bible would be pure and nothing else. So if you live according to the Bible then you have to accept that the church is what the Bible says it is (I have some comments in previous posts, namely the bride of Christ)

Your Law of Karma still leaves the qusestion Why? All you did was define what murder and suicide are.
Maybe I think it is my place to take someone else's life. Maybe I see my mission is to eradicate all the thieves. Wouldn't it be better if we didn't have thieves in the world? Who are you or anyone else to tell me it's not my place then to murder them?
And with suicide it's my life isn't it, so I can take it if I want. It is my place.

I don't see how anyone can quiet these arguments unless they say &quot;Murder is wrong because God is the giver of life so He therefore sets the rules and He said thou shalt not murder.&quot;
&quot;Suicide is wrong because it is not your life but it is God's who gave it and He has said it is wrong.&quot;

to eia430: Here once again the Bible validates itself. 2 Peter 3:16 says &quot;As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.&quot; The Bible spoke of what you said and warned us to be wary. That strengthens my belief in it.

Besides the massive amounts of doctrinal differences I have with the Mormom church, they have been very corrupt. (I don't know about presently, but I would assume they still are since their ultimate authority is men) If you are really interested to know these then send me an email and I'll tell you my little knowledge of them.

I agree that many churches are abominations to God. they profess Christ but deny what He said by their lives and deeds. That does not excuse the biblical neccesity of it.
Here is
my church's website
I have only been attending for 10 months but for me I have finally found what I believe to be right (according to the Bible) and a pastor who has committed himself to &quot;watch over my soul as one who will give an account&quot; (can't think of reference) And it is a taste of heaven on earth. But before that I really had no care for the church.

 

[64bitloopy]

the next kevin costner movie that isn't about baseball.

 

[Eli]

qacwac- Remember, I'm on your side here. That's what I said. It's God's place to take a life, not you own, or anybody else.

I agree with you, living a pure life would be living by the Bible. Remember that there are many versions of the Bible, nearly all of which, have been changed, and are untruthful.

I don't have mine with me now, but I will report back.

 

[reitz]

MrP, how did Darwin &quot;lose&quot;?

 

[Regine]

Darwin didn't lose. Creationalists just can't accept the fact that there is hard evidence supporting Darwin's theory of evolution.
And don't count the bible as hard evidence - it is a story book, nothing more.

 

[atomicbomberman]

Ya! LOL, toolgirl is sexy AND smart! =)

Bible is a story book written like history.

Dilbert rulz!

 

[monahan]

Hi,
I'm a believer
I looked at those verses
All the verses are good
&quot;For while we live we are always being given up to death for Jesus' sake, so that the life of Jesus may be manifested in our mortal flesh.&quot;
2 Corinthians 4:10-12
That's not a given, but it's worth striving for
I can say it's my true aim today
To bear in my body the dying of the Lord Jesus so his life can be manifested in my present body

 

[monahan]

And then to the degree that his life becomes my own through his death, he is glorified in me
To the same degree I will share his glory in eternity
I hope to stand together with the saints on Mt. Zion in Revelation 14

 

[FrontlineWarrior]

while evolution seems very plausible, it is hardly hard evidence. i have taken 3 years of college level biology and the almost infinite complexity of life makes me wonder if all this could arrive through &quot;natural causes&quot;. i suggest many who are interested in the truth investigate this matter more closely instead of accepting evolution just as blindly as creationist believe in creation.

 

[MI6]

<< Darwin didn't lose. Creationalists just can't accept the fact that there is hard evidence supporting Darwin's theory >>



Right on. I just wrote a paper on creationism vs evolutionism. Basicly what i found is that creationist refuse to believe that any of the findings by evolutionist. The reason that creationist can say this is because evolutionist have to prove things while creationist just have to say it's in the Bible, a really out dated story book.

 

[eia430]

mr palco, you said...

&quot;Would The followers of these men qualify as blind? Darwin, Hitler, College Prof, Clinton, Koresh, Jones, Gore, Lenin,The Greatful Dead, Alexander, Judas, Marylin Manson, Arafat, ect.....&quot;

Although I don't agree 100% with your list, I understand what you mean. And yes, these followers (which I agree with you and only those) would be blind. I do not believe in Genesis, so I cannot agree with you about Darwin, among others. Genesis is just as silly to me as hearing &quot;so the fox made the heavens and the earth&quot;.

&quot;Perhaps it would be Wisdom to go directly to God, for leadership.&quot;

I agree with you there 100%, although maybe we won't agree with method. I believe that if you pray and get an answer that can be trusted as free from the meddeling of men. But the church or even the Bible, I don't think is free from the meddeling of men and therefore cannot be trusted 100%.

 

[MrPALCO]

<< MrP, how did Darwin &quot;lose&quot;? >>





<< Basicly what i found is that creationist refuse to believe that any of the findings by evolutionist. >>



Darwin was never able to liberate himself from seeing Creation in the single dimension of the Physical realm.

Much of what the evolutionist can see is fact, but without knowledge of the higher realms, those facts are never seen with clarity.

The higher law will always supercede the lower law.

 

[Regine]

Dirf, there is hard evidence. I'm an anthropology student, and I deal with fossils almost on a daily basis. I believe what I can hold in my hand.
Unless you can send Jesus over by FedEx so I can have a little chat with him, I'm gonna go with evolution over the bible.

 

[MrPALCO]

<< And don't count the bible as hard evidence - it is a story book, nothing more. >>



What hard evidence do you have to prove that the Bible is a &quot;story book, nothing more&quot; (although I do not know what that means)

 

[eia430]

wviperw you said..

&quot;there are a lot of misinterpretations of the bible, but that does not make the bible wrong.&quot;

In itself no it does not, but what that does prove to me is that the Bible is not 100% God's work. How can something that's 100% God's work be so easy to use for evil? and on such a regular, constant and dependable basis??????? Let's take another document, let's call it the Constitution of the United States. Why is that document much harder to use for an evil purpose than the Bible??? Perhaps because it's clear and defined? as are the 10 commandments are clear and defined? Perhaps the fuzziness of the Bible is proof enough (it certainly is for me) that it has been meddled with by men for their own ends.

 

[64bitloopy]

Why is it no one ever has an answer, just more excuses.

Will there be an end to man?
If you leave it in the hands of the reigous, yes, they will find a way to end the world, or at least mankind.

If you leave it to scientists, who knows. We've already beat survival of the fittest rules by making the weak and sickly able to survive throught the use of new medicine and technology.

So, I guess you should ask, does it really matter, geez, I mean if a gay guy can win Survivor, than anything is possible.

 

[Regine]

I mean that it is a book full of stories. There is no evidence that god actually made everybody write it down - especially in the old testament. How could they have recorded everything if there wasn't even writing? For example, Adam and Eve, Noah, was writing around back then? Somehow I doubt it. So they were stories written down later. They could have simply been made up, or changed, or misinterpreted.

 

[64bitloopy]

I have to agree, it is just a book. Jurassic Park is a book, too. And a damn good one. But, they are both just books.