What is the real reason Mitt Romney won't release his tax returns?

[Doc Savage Fan]

Why should he? It's not really relevant to anything. Tax returns are very relevant. And it's not really tradition. GWB didn't release his transcripts either (someone illegally leaked them without his permission).

Why did Obama take several years to release his birth certificate? He must have been hiding something! Oh wait. Birther mentality FTL.

 

[blankslate]

Obama has bucked many traditions...does he have something to hide? Hell...he even won't release his Columbia/Harvard records...what's he hiding?!? Answer: He has something to hide. There's absolutely no reason for him NOT to unless that's the reason.

The thing is President Obama hasn't made Harvard or Columbia a major part of his campaign. "I'm a Harvard educated person vote for me."

As for something to hide he probably went on academic probation and the way the media outlets and blogs latch on to things I'm not surprised that he doesn't release them. At least he hasn't so far made his education a main part of his campaign.

If it was something more serious like say harassing another student or actual cheating or plagarism it probably would have come out. Because someone would be willing to talk to the news and make it public....

Just like that people who witnessed Governor Romney's harassment of another student eventually talked to the media.


Governor Romney has made his tenure at Bain a major part of his campaign. "I was a successful CEO and therefore I can run this country."
Therefore it's very relevant when Bain was too lazy to change the paperwork after Governor Romney "left" in 1999. Or forget to stop paying him a salary in 2000 and 2001

How do you collect a salary from a company if you're not involved in any of it's decision making at all?

I know it's a liberal rag and all so you might just not want to click on the link but...

www.forbes.com has a list of questions that if Governor Romney answered he'd be able to make President Obama look he was just conducting a witch hunt as you say he is.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/tjwalke...ut-bain-capital-before-the-issue-can-go-away/

5. You earned at least $100,000 as an executive from Bain in 2001 and 2002, separate from investment earnings according to filings with State of Massachusetts. Can you give an example of anyone else you personally know getting a six figure income, not dividend or investment return, but actual income, from a company they had nothing to do with?


6. What did you do for this $100,000 salary you earned from Bain in both 2000 and 2001?
7. If you did nothing to earn this salary, did the Bain managers violate their fiduciary duty by paying you a salary for no discernible reason?


8. Are there other companies that pay you six figures a year as earned income, not investment income, for which you have no involvement?

Of course if he followed his fathers example and released his tax records he'd be able shut President Obama up... so why doesn't he?

Supposedly Senator McCain's campaign had access to more (23 years some say) of Governor Romney's tax records. They decided to go with another VP pick.... :hmm:

 

[Phokus]

Why did Obama take several years to release his birth certificate? He must have been hiding something! Oh wait. Birther mentality FTL.

Probably because a sane person would assume, based on the available information, that Obama was born in the US? That's not equal to the question of why Romney, like all presidential candidates, wouldn't release his tax returns.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Probably because a sane person would assume, based on the available information, that Obama was born in the US?

Probably because a sane person would assume, based on the available information, that Romney's returns satisfied the IRS and are not a relevant issue?

That's not equal to the question of why Romney, like all presidential candidates, wouldn't release his tax returns.

The question of Obama's birth was certanly much more relevant than Romney's tax returns. Birther mentality is birther mentality...this is much the same...just different outraged people leading this particular witch hunt.

 

[fskimospy]

The question of Obama's birth was certanly much more relevant than Romney's tax returns. Birther mentality is birther mentality...this is no different...just new outraged people leading this particular witch hunt.

The difference being of course that there was no actual question of Obama's birth by non-crazy people. Plenty of non-crazy people, Republicans included, want Romney to release his tax returns.

I stand by that he will do so eventually, at least to some limited extent. I'm sure he will do the absolute minimum that he calculates he can get away with and still satisfy most of the 'release your taxes' crowd, but he will release more. With the birthers you didn't lose much by ignoring them as they were generally (and correctly) viewed to be insane. Not the same case here, so the calculus is different.

 

[Phokus]

Probably because a sane person would assume, based on the available information, that Romney's returns satisfied the IRS and are not a relevant issue?


The question of Obama's birth was certanly much more relevant than Romney's tax returns. Birther mentality is birther mentality...this is much the same...just different outraged people leading this particular witch hunt.

Satisfying IRS requirements is not the only reason for releasing returns. You know that (or should at least). It gives the American people a bigger picture of what you've been doing for years in business. What if you are doing something legal but totally against the interest of the American people? A birth certificate tells you whether you were born in the US or not, oh wow, big whoop.

Explain to me why CONSERVATIVES are calling for Romney to release his tax returns?

http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2...ey-taxes-returns-hiding-something.php?ref=fpa

You're such a partisan conservative, you're actually to the right of these people calling for Romney to release his taxes, that's incredible.

 

[Aegeon]

Obama has bucked many traditions...does he have something to hide? Hell...he even won't release his Columbia/Harvard records...what's he hiding?!? Answer: He has something to hide. There's absolutely no reason for him NOT to unless that's the reason.

Uh, the traditions Obama has buckled are frankly mostly in areas like his background prior to running for President.

To reasonable people, Obama clearly had made available way more information than most Presidential candidates have done in the past when he was running for office. This includes his memoir Dreams from my Father which gave out vastly more real personal information about their background than the typical memoir of someone who ends up running for office.

There simply is no remotely reasonable plausible argument on why Obama should need to release his college transcripts, which is something that most other Presidential candidates and Romney himself have not done. The fact is Obama graduated Magna Cum Laude from Harvard, which puts him in top 10% of his class in GPA and makes the idea that he was on academic probation while there or something similar simply outright impossible.

 

[zinfamous]

Why did Obama take several years to release his birth certificate? He must have been hiding something! Oh wait. Birther mentality FTL.

Actually, he released them right away.

It was his own mistake to ever humor the racist xenophobic nutters that already refuse to accept fact and release any more than what he initially released.

You can't logically compare the two situations.

 

[Phokus]

Actually, he released them right away.

It was his own mistake to ever humor the racist xenophobic nutters that already refuse to accept fact and release any more than what he initially released.

You can't logically compare the two situations.

Add to the fact that there was ample evidence that Obama was born in the US already (i.e. the Hawaii newspaper that announced his birth) and it really goes to show how batshit crazy those people were. Even after he released it, it doesn't satisfy most birthers anyway (just look at how eager they are about Sheriff Joe's "investigation").

For Doc Savage to compare the two is ridiculous.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

Anyone trying to equate Obama's birth certificate with Romney's tax returns is being deliberately disingenuous.

The fact of the matter is Obama's birthplace was not and is not disputed by normal rational thinking human beings. Birtherism came from a radical and let's be honest downright crazy segment of the GOP that Obama rightly ignored. Why should he give any credence to lunatics?

This is no way compares to Romney's outright refusal to release his tax returns. Him only releasing 1-2 years is because he is most definitely hiding something in there that he doesn't want the public to see. Given that he is using his Bain experience as the primary reason people should vote for him, it's entirely within bounds for the public to want to see exactly how he made his money during this time period. I don't think most people believe he was doing anything against the law, but there is no doubt in my mind he was doing things most Americans would view as unethical for a man who wants to restore fiscal integrity to this country.

The simple question no Conservative can answer is this. If he has nothing to hid in his tax returns, why not release them? His own father advocated for 10+ years of returns for christ sakes.

 

[zinfamous]

Probably because a sane person would assume, based on the available information, that Romney's returns satisfied the IRS and are not a relevant issue?

😕

no one is talking about fraud. (well, not everyone. 😉) They are talking about politics. What Romney has to "hide" is that he is likely very much the "other" that the average American will not want to vote for after his tax returns are dissected.

His returns begin OK with the IRS have nothing to do with this issue as info that voters want/need to see.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Satisfying IRS requirements is not the only reason for releasing returns. You know that (or should at least). It gives the American people a bigger picture of what you've been doing for years in business. What if you are doing something legal but totally against the interest of the American people? A birth certificate tells you whether you were born in the US or not, oh wow, big whoop.

Explain to me why CONSERVATIVES are calling for Romney to release his tax returns?

http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2...ey-taxes-returns-hiding-something.php?ref=fpa

You're such a partisan conservative, you're actually to the right of these people calling for Romney to release his taxes, that's incredible.

I personally don't care if he releases the additional tax returns or not...I just think it's hilarious that you've got your panties in a bunch about this. It's actually quite entertaining to note the similarities between some progressives here and the birthers.

 

[Phokus]

I personally don't care if he releases the additional tax returns or not...I just think it's hilarious that you've got your panties in a bunch about this. It's actually quite entertaining to note the similarities between some progressives here and the birthers.

There's no similarity at all. Birthers accused Obama of being born in Kenya before AND AFTER he released his birth certificate.

You are a prime example of what is wrong with the conservative movement. So much so that compared to you, even conservative pundits are calling Romney crazy for not releasing his tax returns:

http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2...ey-taxes-returns-hiding-something.php?ref=fpa

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/07/15/bill-kristol-romney-crazy-not-to-release-tax-returns/

 

[zinfamous]

Anyone trying to equate Obama's birth certificate with Romney's tax returns is being deliberately disingenuous.

The fact of the matter is Obama's birthplace was not and is not disputed by normal rational thinking human beings. Birtherism came from a radical and let's be honest downright crazy segment of the GOP that Obama rightly ignored. Why should he give any credence to lunatics?

McCain actually ignored them, too. Well, not as publicly--but at his stump speeches most people will remember that he shot down some of the loons that were complaining Obama was a muslim not born in the US.

McCain told them that was patently false, and to stfu. Of course, he didn't do much in the way of advertising to dispel those lies, just...ignored it and let the crazies have their day.

 

[fskimospy]

😕

no one is talking about fraud. (well, not everyone. 😉) They are talking about politics. What Romney has to "hide" is that he is likely very much the "other" that the average American will not want to vote for after his tax returns are dissected.

His returns begin OK with the IRS have nothing to do with this issue as info that voters want/need to see.

It is pretty bizarre to think that our good friend DSF believes that the only thing that would be relevant about someone's tax returns or not would be if they satisfied the IRS.

Actually I don't think he really believes that, but he needs to uphold his false equivalency narrative. Such are the sacrifices one must make!

 

[Aegeon]

Probably because a sane person would assume, based on the available information, that Romney's returns satisfied the IRS and are not a relevant issue?..

The question of Obama's birth was certanly much more relevant than Romney's tax returns. Birther mentality is birther mentality...this is much the same...just different outraged people leading this particular witch hunt.

The huge difference is that there was no remote question of Obama's place of birth to people who reasonably carefully considered the issue after the Democratic Primary, particularly after the Republican governor of Hawaii at the time and her office certified they had the birth certificate record showing that he was born in Hawaii. (Although Obama released his Certificate of Live Birth to further settle the matter prior to the election for good measure.)

By contrast, there is plenty of reason to suspect that Romney's tax records show something damaging about his past business dealing or ways he has lowered his tax bill in the past at a minimum. There is a long tradition of Presidential candidates, especially wealthy ones, releasing their tax returns for a significant number of years, including Romney's father. Americans typically do figure this is relevant information which may show something about the candidate's past behavior, and this does offer a source of independent confirmation about how wealthy the candidate in question actually is. As noted, Romney in fact was willing to give 23 years of tax returns to John McCain when he was considered for Vice President in 2008, so it clearly was viewed as relevant in that case.

At this point the issue for Romney is the rational political decision if there was not much there should be to release the tax returns and work on returning the focus of the discussion to the current state of the economy and Obama's record and the like, as even fellow Republicans are now noting. This makes me honestly wonder if there is something truly horrifically damaging in those tax returns he is not releasing, and the problem is independents and other undecided voters are starting to wonder the same thing.

 

[zinfamous]

I personally don't care if he releases the additional tax returns or not...I just think it's hilarious that you've got your panties in a bunch about this. It's actually quite entertaining to note the similarities between some progressives here and the birthers.

it's hilarious that you can't distance yourself from partisan hackery to see the clear logical differences between these 2 situations.

One has to:

--ignore history
--ignore campaign politics
--close one's mind to logical processing
--refuse the possibility of a counterargument (lack of debate--true partisan hackery)

...to go along with your flippancy to wards why this actually matters.


Here is my take:

at first, I did think this was all a bit silly--mainly, because he would release his returns and we'd all learn what we already know about Mitt--He pays far less a percentage of his income in taxes than most of us--hell, he pays half what he owes, essentially. We already despised him for that...so it shouldn't be a shock.

But here's the reason it's a big deal: the more he ignores this and deflects, the longer it lingers. It will never go away and he absolutely needs to release it asap--because he will eventually have to release them. the closer the election gets, the less time his campaign has to bury the issue. And that's really the fundamental problem that his campaign is dealing with. They are doing everything they can, right now, to make him unelectable.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

There's no similarity at all. Birthers accused Obama of being born in Kenya before AND AFTER he released his birth certificate.

You are a prime example of what is wrong with the conservative movement. So much so that compared to you, even conservative pundits are calling Romney crazy for not releasing his tax returns:

http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2...ey-taxes-returns-hiding-something.php?ref=fpa

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/07/15/bill-kristol-romney-crazy-not-to-release-tax-returns/

I'm comparing the rationales used...the "he didn't release something so he must be hiding something" mentality vs. "he didn't release something so he must be hiding something" mentality. You are a prime example of what's wrong with the progressive movement....you're just on the flip side of the birther political spectrum.

 

[Phokus]

Yeah DSF is either being incredibly partisan (the most likely reason) or he really doesn't understand why we need to see tax returns.

Besides the 'how much does he pay in taxes' thing (which is VERY relevant considering his tax plan calls for lowering his taxes even further), we do need to know what type of business he conducts. For example, what if he invested in a fracking company? If you lived in Pennsylvania or any numerous states with fracking, and you had poisoned waters as a result of fracking, that would be very relevant information for that voter.

 

[fskimospy]

I'm comparing the rationales used...the "he didn't release something so he must be hiding something" mentality vs. "he didn't release something so he must be hiding something" mentality. You are a prime example of what's wrong with the progressive movement....you're just on the flip side of the birther political spectrum.

So what if they are using the same reasoning? Sometimes such suspicion is justified, sometimes it's not. You're attempting to discredit it by tying questions about Romney's taxes to insane people. It's really transparent and nobody's buying it.

There was no legitimate cause to question Obama's place of birth. There are legitimate reasons to believe that information contained in Romney's tax returns is information that he would prefer not to have come out. Anyone with holdings as large and as diverse as Mitt Romney is likely to have some tax history that can be turned against them. Sucks to be him.

 

[Phokus]

I'm comparing the rationales used...the "he didn't release something so he must be hiding something" mentality vs. "he didn't release something so he must be hiding something" mentality. You are a prime example of what's wrong with the progressive movement....you're just on the flip side of the birther political spectrum.

Yeah, keep putting your fingers in your ears. There was already evidence that Obama was born in the US (i.e. the state of hawaii releasing his birth certificate as pointed out above and a hawaii newspaper announcing his birth). Unless of course you think this was all a conspiracy and all those documents were forged (as birthers do).

Whereas, we don't know what the fuck is in Mitt Romney's taxes, at all.

SEE THE FUCKING DIFFERENCE?

Your display of partisan hackery is truly astounding.

Edit: This article is really relevant to Doc Savage Fan: http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsme...oses_teaching_of_critical_thinking_skills.php

"Texas GOP’s 2012 Platform Opposes Teaching Of ‘Critical Thinking Skills’"

 

[blankslate]

I just think it's hilarious that you've got your panties in a bunch about this. It's actually quite entertaining to note the similarities between some progressives here and the birthers.

Actually, if Governor Romney released his tax returns President Obama and people asking questions about Governor Romney's time at Bain like that liberal rag Forbe's does on their site would shut up.

After President Obama released his birth certificate birthers just doubled down.

 

[Phokus]

Actually, if Governor Romney released his tax returns President Obama and people asking questions about Governor Romney's time at Bain like that liberal rag Forbe's does on their site would shut up.

After President Obama released his birth certificate birthers just doubled down.

Yup, see how they're cheering Sheriff Joe's 'investigation' right now.

 

[Aegeon]

I'm comparing the rationales used...the "he didn't release something so he must be hiding something" mentality vs. "he didn't release something so he must be hiding something" mentality. You are a prime example of what's wrong with the progressive movement....you're just on the flip side of the birther political spectrum.

The two situations are clearly not remotely comparable, with no-one able to make a plausible sane case Obama was hiding something, especially after the Certificate of Live Birth was released.

By contrast, we can come up with actually allot of things Romney could be hiding in his tax returns. To just throw out a couple possibilities, his involvement with Bain could have rather clearly have gone on much further than he has publicly claimed, or he might have evaded paying his taxes in a way that was technically legal at the time but just about everyone looking at the circumstances would find highly ethically dubious. The difference is why is was not remotely normal for Presidential candidates to release their birth certificates, the recent practice of particularly rich Presidential candidates in particular releasing their tax returns for a significant number of years is something Romney is notably breaching.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

So what if they are using the same reasoning? Sometimes such suspicion is justified, sometimes it's not. You're attempting to discredit it by tying questions about Romney's taxes to insane people. It's really transparent and nobody's buying it.

There was no legitimate cause to question Obama's place of birth. There are legitimate reasons to believe that information contained in Romney's tax returns is information that he would prefer not to have come out. Anyone with holdings as large and as diverse as Mitt Romney is likely to have some tax history that can be turned against them. Sucks to be him.

Bullshit...you don't have any legitimate reasons either...just idle and "highly partisan" speculation. It's the same damn reason some want to see Obama's college records...looking for any minute piece of dirt they can in order to smear him. Am I wrong?