What is the real reason Mitt Romney won't release his tax returns?

[mshan]

I did not create this thread to promote more partisan bickering, just curious what the real reason Romney is allowing himself get twisted into such a pretzel* trying to defend his tenure at Bain.

Saw an article on Google News (Slate article) which seemed to suggest it was "carried interest" (private equity firms income for managing money getting taxed at low capital gains rate, not regular income?) was what was hidden there.

And cartoon in this morning's local paper saying he was outsourcing in part to shelter income overseas.

Any other rational hypotheses others have seen or read?


* I don't care for Huffington Post at all, but this article was linked from Washington Post article I read on swing voters in Colorado (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...onomy/2012/07/13/gJQAY8qghW_blog.html?hpid=z2) seems to indicate Romney is contradicting himself http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/12/mitt-romney-bain-departure_n_1669006.html) for presumed political expediency.






edit: found this interesting tidbit:

"Named for a historic Massachusetts coastal lighthouse, Sankaty was part of a cluster of similarly named hedge funds run by Bain Capital, the private equity firm Romney founded and led until 1999. The offshore company was used in Bain's $1 billion takeover of Domino's Pizza and other multimillion-dollar investment deals more than a decade ago.

Romney's campaign declined to answer detailed questions from AP about Sankaty. Romney aides have said in the past that some disclosures were not required because those assets were valued by his financial advisers at less than $1,000 - below the minimum threshold under federal rules set by the U.S. Office of Government Ethics. A financial snapshot of Sankaty in Romney's 2010 tax returns showed the holding with almost no value at the time- with $10,000 in both assets and liabilities.

"Everything on the filings is reported as required," campaign spokeswoman Andrea Saul said in a brief statement. "If OGE has an issue with any filings, they would let us know." The agency declined to comment.

While Sankaty no longer plays an active role in Bain's current deals, private equity experts said such holdings could provide significant income to Romney under his 10-year separation agreement from Bain, which expired in 2009. Investment funds typically churn "carried interest," profit shares due to the managers of the funds that often range as much as 20 percent of a fund's annual profit - known as "the carry." Even after investment funds are exhausted, profit shares and other late earnings from those stakes can continue to stream, arriving as lucrative "tails," tax experts say. In some circumstances, the analysts added, offshore companies like Sankaty could also offer limited tax deferral advantages.

The implications of Romney's Bain profit-sharing became clear last month when his trust reported that one rarely disclosed asset had posted a $1.9 million payout. The income was described as a "true-up" payment, catch-up income that made up for unpaid earnings owed to Romney as part of his Bain separation agreement.

Such sizable earnings are possible "depending on the terms of the agreement," said tax law expert Michael Kosnitzky, an attorney at the New York firm of Boies, Schiller & Flexner. The Romney campaign acknowledged recently that it could not rule out more large future payments.

The use of offshore companies such as Sankaty is allowed under U.S. tax laws. They are typically set up as shell corporations by private equity and hedge funds to route investments from large foreign and institutional investors, such as large pension plans, into corporate takeovers. The money is used to provide equity and buy up debt. In turn, the investors gain U.S. tax advantages by passing their funds through the offshore "blocker" corporations, avoiding a high 35 percent tax on earnings that the Internal Revenue Service describes as "unrelated business income."

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...COMPANY?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/bain-capital-mitt-romney-outsourcing-china-global-tech

 

[blankslate]

Any other rational hypotheses others have seen or read?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Let's have Obamas transcripts!

Psst, normal people don't care about either.

 

[cybrsage]

He is not releasing them because the State of Hawaii says only the actual person the forms apply to can request them. Oh wait, that was why Obama did not release his Birth Certificate for years. My bad.

I vote with aliens.

 

[zsdersw]

The magic underpants say "No!".

 

[MovingTarget]

Let's have Obamas transcripts!

Psst, normal people don't care about either.

Normal people don't care about Obama's transcripts because they are 'ancient' history by now. To new voters today, those were from the time when ipods were powered by steam for christsake. Romney's tax returns are far more relevant because it can show who he is influenced by and to what extent. He is also running on his record as a businessman (instead of his far more relevant experience as a governor), and his tax returns can back up/dismiss his successes/failures in that arena.

 

[cybrsage]

Normal people don't care about Obama's transcripts because they are 'ancient' history by now. To new voters today, those were from the time when ipods were powered by steam for christsake. Romney's tax returns are far more relevant because it can show who he is influenced by and to what extent. He is also running on his record as a businessman (instead of his far more relevant experience as a governor), and his tax returns can back up/dismiss his successes/failures in that arena.

I think his houses show his success/failure. How many failures can live the lifestyle Romney lives? Both items are irrelevant, just like the birth certificate was irrelevant. But if the demand to see the tax returns keep the dems stuck on stupid, then Romney should never release them.

 

[cybrsage]

The magic underpants say "No!".

Did the aliens design them? I cannot remember...but it could be a great link between magic underpants and aliens if they did!

 

[Throckmorton]

Let's have Obamas transcripts!

Psst, normal people don't care about either.

College transcripts? Are you being serious? He's 50. Do you want his 5th grade report card too?

 

[Throckmorton]

I think his houses show his success/failure. How many failures can live the lifestyle Romney lives? Both items are irrelevant, just like the birth certificate was irrelevant. But if the demand to see the tax returns keep the dems stuck on stupid, then Romney should never release them.

Huh? I think you don't understand the point of releasing the tax returns... We don't want to see them because we think they'll show he's a "failure" or poorer than he seems. We want to see them because we think they'll show he's up to no good.

 

[CaptainGoodnight]

Huh? I think you don't understand the point of releasing the tax returns... We don't want to see them because we think they'll show he's a "failure" or poorer than he seems. We want to see them because we think they'll show he's up to no good.

No, what will happen is the left will nitpick at stuff that is not illegal or unethical and try and make a big deal out of nothing.

Look at the whole "when Romney left Bain Capital" thing.

 

[nehalem256]

Did the aliens design them? I cannot remember...but it could be a great link between magic underpants and aliens if they did!

Mysterious Being appearing and telling Joseph Smith where to find tablets that can only be read with "magic" glasses.

I think it is pretty clear the magic underpants were designed by aliens.

 

[MovingTarget]

I think his houses show his success/failure. How many failures can live the lifestyle Romney lives? Both items are irrelevant, just like the birth certificate was irrelevant. But if the demand to see the tax returns keep the dems stuck on stupid, then Romney should never release them.

His houses show jack squat in terms of facts. I'm sure the IRS/SEC is just fine with saying "just show us your house" when auditing someone. The tax returns contain hard facts, whereas simply looking at a property can be highly misleading about someone's financial dealings. It is not out of the ordinary, especially considering what Romney is running on, for a presidential candidate to realease their returns to the public.

 

[lotus503]

Because he has a ton of money offshore to avoid paying tax.

Die hard ideologues may not care, but it pisses the average American off.

 

[MovingTarget]

No, what will happen is the left will nitpick at stuff that is not illegal or unethical and try and make a big deal out of nothing.

Look at the whole "when Romney left Bain Capital" thing.

I disagree. If Romney wants to run on his success as a businessman, then we deserve facts. Also, just because something is legal and not necessarily unethical does not mean that it isn't still bad for the country. Obama and Biden have released their returns, so its time for Romney to follow suit. The only reason for the Romney camp to delay knowing that it is customary to release the returns is due to skeletons in the closet.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011...resident-biden-s-tax-returns-and-tax-receipts

 

[a777pilot]

Let's have Obamas transcripts!

Psst, normal people don't care about either.

There ya go.

That's my feeling about this subject.

 

[mshan]

"We don't want to see them because we think they'll show he's a "failure" or poorer than he seems. We want to see them because we think they'll show he's up to no good."

I don't think I agree with this.

Slate article mentioning carried interest said poor people commit tax fraud by accident, middle class because of foolishness, and rich don't because of the lawyers and accountants they can hire to legally take advantage of loopholes in tax laws.

But presumably what is legal by letter of the law may not be as palatable for a politician vs. rich private citizen.

MY GUESS is that releasing those tax returns would allow MSM to harp on all tax-loop holes the rich donors who are flooding the Romney campaign and his Super PACs are really interested in preseving (e. g. some talking head said some billionaire giving $300,000 will get $400,000 tax refund later on because contribution is tax deductible. Obviously doesn't make sense to get more back than you contributed, but seems there might be loopholes such as that for super rich to take advantage of). Plus Romney wants complete repeal of estate tax, while Obama wants to reduce exemption from $5.1 million to $3.5 million (if law is allowed to expire at end of year, it goes back to $1 until Congress changes the law).

 

[BD2003]

He clearly has something to hide.

 

[cybrsage]

His houses show jack squat in terms of facts.

The reason for wanting to see the returns was was if he is a success or failure in business. Him having more than one expensive home shows he was a success.

If a different reason is actually held, that reason should be stated instead.

 

[cybrsage]

I disagree. If Romney wants to run on his success as a businessman, then we deserve facts. Also, just because something is legal and not necessarily unethical does not mean that it isn't still bad for the country. Obama and Biden have released their returns, so its time for Romney to follow suit. The only reason for the Romney camp to delay knowing that it is customary to release the returns is due to skeletons in the closet.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011...resident-biden-s-tax-returns-and-tax-receipts

The reason he is not releasing them is the same as for why Obama did not release his birth certificate for so long. It is a non-issue that is keeping some of the dems stuck on stupid...just like some of the reps were kept stuck on stupid by the birth certificate.

 

[mshan]

Birther frenzy just whipped up base, don't think it had significant effect on swing voters.

Bain attacks are apparently having noticeable effect on polls in swing states.

It would seem to me Romney would like to put the debate to rest by releasing his taxes, except it might open a bigger can of worms his rich donors don't want debated on cable channels frenzy for a few days.

 

[cybrsage]

If this type of thing is all the dems have, then they are in dire trouble come November.

 

[cybrsage]

College transcripts? Are you being serious? He's 50. Do you want his 5th grade report card too?

Yes, unless he is hiding something. What is he hiding since he refuses to release his records? Maybe he never actually attended, the transcripts would not exist then. Maybe he got straight Ds. Maybe, just maybe, he went backwards in time and forged it all. Who knows, he is hiding something though, just like Romney.

See, this logic works on all the stupid items. Birth Certificates, tax records, college transcripts, color of magic underwear, DNA test to show who is the real father, on and on.

 

[Anarchist420]

I don't know why and I don't care.

 

[techs]

As someone who watched Romney from one state over during his years as Governor of Massachusettes people are going to very surprised at who they elected if he wins the Presidency.

Romney is a religious fanatic. He really believes all the Mormon stuff about planet Kolob. As one of the chosen people Romney thinks anyone who is not Mormon is damned. He cares nothing for anyone but himself and his church. He will do and say anything to get power.

He is the true stealth candidate. On the day he takes office, watch out America. Both the right and the left are going to get screwed.