What is the real reason Mitt Romney won't release his tax returns?

[marincounty]

Republicans look like total hypocrites for pushing their birther nonsense, and then their candidate won't release his tax returns.
Not releasing them makes it seem as if you are hiding something. And tax returns are not birth certificates or college transcripts, they are something routinely released by candidates for office, like Romney's father.
Either continue to get hammered on this issue, or man up and release the returns.

 

[DaveSimmons]

He's probably just "hiding" the full extent of how much of his money has been offshored to avoid US taxes.

Perfectly legal, but not something he wants the Obama camp to use in campaign ads.

 

[techs]

Republicans look like total hypocrites for pushing their birther nonsense, and then their candidate won't release his tax returns.
Not releasing them makes it seem as if you are hiding something. And tax returns are not birth certificates or college transcripts, they are something routinely released by candidates for office, like Romney's father.
Either continue to get hammered on this issue, or man up and release the returns.

I don't think he can. If they showed he was involved in any way with Bain or a Bain owned company after Feb. 1999 he committed a felony in his Massachusettes testimoney to prove his residency to run for Governor.

While it may sound stupid that Romney should have committed such a stuped offense and one that he thought he could get away with, it really fits with his personality. The guy thinks he can lie his way out of anything.

 

[Fern]

What is the real reason Mitt Romney won't release his tax returns?

I think the better question is what is to be learned?

We all know he is wealthy.

Were you aware that his wealth has been held in a blind trust since like 2002/2003?

All we would learn is what did his trustee did with Romney's money. And who cares? Is the trustee running for office?

Fern

 

[BD2003]

If he was actively committing federal crimes, this would have been discovered.

I seriously doubt he was committing federal crimes too. Im sure that's just nonsense coming from the democrats to push him into releasing them, but he's letting them get away with it. Mitt's not an idiot - the felony accusation is almost certainly BS, but there's some ugly truth hidden in those returns that he doesn't want people to see.

We all know what it is anyway, but it's going to look really bad when its extensively documented. He's probably making the right move for his campaign by not releasing them.

 

[mshan]

I don't think the Obama campaign was even trying to claim that Romney's actions at Bain were potentially criminal.

I do think what they are suggesting is that, by trying to rewrite history after the fact for political expediency, they have contradicted themselves on SEC files, and that was the foundation of suggestions that Bain might have committed a felony (beyond statute of limitions, though). e. g. I think it was 2007 filing from Bain which said Romney had completely retired from Bain, when his own documentation and testimony suggest otherwise.

They are talking about the cover-up, not the "crime", so to speak...

 

[Fern]

-snip-

found this interesting tidbit:

The use of offshore companies such as Sankaty is allowed under U.S. tax laws. They are typically set up as shell corporations by private equity and hedge funds to route investments from large foreign and institutional investors, such as large pension plans, into corporate takeovers. The money is used to provide equity and buy up debt. In turn, the investors gain U.S. tax advantages by passing their funds through the offshore "blocker" corporations, avoiding a high 35 percent tax on earnings that the Internal Revenue Service describes as "unrelated business income."

The bolded part is incorrect.

US pension plans are exempt from tax under section 501.

Foreign plans are exempt, well, because they are foreign. Flowing money through another foreign corp located offshore doesn't make them any more 'foreign'.

"Unrelated business income" doesn't apply to investments. Note the word "business". The rules on unrelated business income exist to prevent (section 501(c)(3) ) charities (not pension plans) from pursuing business activities unrelated to their charitable function on a tax free basis. Letting them do it tax free gives them an unfair competitive advantage against regular taxable businesses in that activity.

Somebody doesn't know WTF they are talking about.

Fern

 

[Fern]

-snip-
Romney's tax returns are far more relevant because it can show who he is influenced by and to what extent.

Nope.

His money is in a blind trust, and has been for many years.

Fern

 

[techs]

Nope.

His money is in a blind trust, and has been for many years.

Fern

Yet he was involved in the running of Bain holdings after he swore an oath he was not invoved.

Does lying not mean anything anymore?
Does a felony not mean anything anymore?

 

[jackstar7]

He's probably just "hiding" the full extent of how much of his money has been offshored to avoid US taxes.

Perfectly legal, but not something he wants the Obama camp to use in campaign ads.

"Luckily" SuperPACs can just start making ads saying "What's he hiding?!"

Go money! speech!

 

[Fern]

The reason I want to see them is to see if he holds a ton of money offshore to avoid paying tax. Not illegal but not presidential either.

US individuals cannot avoid paying US tax by holding money offshore, not legally anyway.

We have a sh!tpile of rules about it and it is the IRS's number area of focus and has been for some years now.

The primary of purpose of those (illegally) avoiding US tax use offshore accounts to hide the money from the IRS. It's not being hid if it's disclosed.

Fern

 

[jackstar7]

US individuals cannot avoid paying US tax by holding money offshore, not legally anyway.

We have a sh!tpile of rules about it and it is the IRS's number area of focus and has been for some years now.

The primary of purpose of those (illegally) avoiding US tax use offshore accounts to hide the money from the IRS. It's not being hid if it's disclosed.

Fern

One could probably determine based on his disclosures if things add up or not (with regards to his income) and whether it seems as though there is an amount of wealth missing from the overall estate.

 

[zinfamous]

I think the better question is what is to be learned?

We all know he is wealthy.

Were you aware that his wealth has been held in a blind trust since like 2002/2003?

All we would learn is what did his trustee did with Romney's money. And who cares? Is the trustee running for office?

Fern

Did Mitt hire his trustee? If so, and if the trustee did something untoward, do we want a POTUS with such poor judge of character when selecting his staff (like the scandals that plagued and wrecked the presidency of U S Grant)?

 

[Fern]

Yet he was involved in the running of Bain holdings after he swore an oath he was not invoved.

Does lying not mean anything anymore?
Does a felony not mean anything anymore?

I've seen no evidence of his involvement in Bain.

Attending a board meeting of Staples is about Staples' business, not Bain's.

Fern

 

[Fern]

-snip-
Romney will not release his returns (following custom and tradition) for only one conceivable reason: they contain information that would put him in a bad light, or worse. Convince me otherwise.

Romney has had no knowledge or say in his investments for many years since his money is in a blind trust. If there were improprieties, such as tax evasion, it would be a legal problem for the trustee, not Romney who is merely a beneficiary.

I suspect if he released the returns they believe we'd spend the rest of the campaign talking about +20 years of tax returns and they would spend all their time defending against bogus accusations and innuendo as we are seeing with the whole "when he left Bain" and the "OMG! he has foreign bank accounts" stuff.

There's a pot load of people in Congress, including Democrats, who have foreign bank accounts and investments (Rangel does and went years without reporting it or and paying taxes on it until caught) yet this is somehow a big deal now?

Fern

 

[zanejohnson]

it's so funny watching the right wing try to cover for Romney when everyone else is just laughing at the blatant hypocrisy..

and while faux news is running nonstop obama attack ads and trying to explain the unexplainable (why romney wont release the returns)

 

[Fern]

Did Mitt hire his trustee? If so, and if the trustee did something untoward, do we want a POTUS with such poor judge of character when selecting his staff (like the scandals that plagued and wrecked the presidency of U S Grant)?

You cannot be serious?

The trustee is an attorney and since it's a blind trust Romney cannot oversee his activities to ensure he performing them correctly.

Fern

 

[mshan]

"While Sankaty no longer plays an active role in Bain's current deals, private equity experts said such holdings could provide significant income to Romney under his 10-year separation agreement from Bain, which expired in 2009"

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...COMPANY?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Geez, I wonder why Romney is only willing to release his tax returns after 2010...

Just watched Romney's power-puff interview on CNN, and his words seemed very carefully parsed ("documents, offering documents" and not willing to say simple Yes or No when interviewer asked him if Obama is lying about him).

 

[zanejohnson]

You cannot be serious?

The trustee is an attorney and since it's a blind trust Romney cannot oversee his activities to ensure he performing them correctly.

Fern

and you actually buy that???

you actually think anyone is going to let millions of dollars just be legitimately BLINDLY invested...

get real... those blind trustees and romney were having wine and talking about exactly HOW that money would make money... you cant play dumb like that, people are smarter than that.

 

[Fern]

One could probably determine based on his disclosures if things add up or not (with regards to his income) and whether it seems as though there is an amount of wealth missing from the overall estate.

No. You wouldn't be able to do that with an individual's tax return. There is no balance sheet etc.

However, beginning with the tax year ended Dec 31, 2011 you would be able to get a better, though still incomplete, picture of financial holdings in foreign accounts. New reporting/disclosure requirements and forms kicked in for 2011. That shiite is a huge PITA for those of us who do international tax.

Fern

 

[zanejohnson]

there's this little saying called "keep it real"

and this whole blind trust crap is def. not. keeping it real.

 

[zinfamous]

You cannot be serious?

The trustee is an attorney and since it's a blind trust Romney cannot oversee his activities to ensure he performing them correctly.

Fern

that doesn't refute my point--Mitt doesn't have to be involved with what this man decides to describe his ability to hire the right person, to judge this person as trustable.

that's exactly my point.

I'm mostly playing Devil's advocate with your argument. Largely, I don't see this issue as such a big deal--but as far as not being able to gauge the character of a man through his ability to judge the character of those he employs--well, that is pretty important in determining a president.

 

[Fern]

that doesn't refute my point--Mitt doesn't have to be involved with what this man decides to describe his ability to hire the right person, to judge this person as trustable.

that's exactly my point.

I'm mostly playing Devil's advocate with your argument. Largely, I don't see this issue as such a big deal--but as far as not being able to gauge the character of a man through his ability to judge the character of those he employs--well, that is pretty important in determining a president.

Well, I can agree with you about appointing staff like in your Grant analogy.

But attorneys are whole 'nother matter in my experience. By the very nature of their work one cannot know how they conduct themselves in their professional dealings with their clients. Attorney/client privilege and all. You generally cannot find out if they are honest or competent. In my state one cannot even find out if complaints to bar against them have been lodged (unless they are disbarred).

I work in the middle of our historic downtown which is close to the courthouse and thus law offices are nearby. (Lawyers seem to love nice offices etc.) I've seen two of them with the best possible reputation in this area sent to prison for embezzling client funds. These guys were prominent, even nationally. No one expected anything like this.

And so no, I don't think the people entrusting them with funds showed bad judgement. Up until they were discovered, the best judgement everywhere said these two guys were to be trusted.

Fern

 

[marincounty]

There's a pot load of people in Congress, including Democrats, who have foreign bank accounts and investments (Rangel does and went years without reporting it or and paying taxes on it until caught) yet this is somehow a big deal now?

Fern

Charlie Rangel is not running for president, nor would he be electable. See the difference?

 

[drinkmorejava]

Actually if Romneys tax returns show he was involved with Bain or one of its owned companies then he committed a felony in that he testified in Massachusettes under oath that he was not involved after 1999.

Something to do with him having to prove Mass. residency to run for Governor.

This somewhat explains it:
It's also a claim he made in August 2011 on the federal disclosure form he filed as part of his presidential bid. Romney didn't leave any wiggle room: "Mr. Romney retired from Bain Capital on February 11, 1999 to head the Salt Lake Organizing Committee [for the 2002 Winter Olympics]. Since February 11, 1999, Mr. Romney has not had any active role with any Bain Capital entity and has not been involved in the operations of any Bain Capital entity in any way."

That is false.

SEC files include at least six instances of Romney signing documents after February 1999, proving -- unless the signatures were forged -- that his claim to not have "been involved in the operations of any Bain Capital entity in any way" is wrong.


Thus, if he was involved he committed a felony by lying under oath.
Seems Republicans have thing for that. Or maybe its only when its about a blow job.

As the CEO, there are certain things he has to sign...whether he had a part in them or not.