In response to your second paragraph, again you are jumping to conclusions. You are saying that you have proof that Jesus existed, was crucified, and resurrected from historical records. This means nothing to me and you have not proven an existence of God. I don't doubt that a man named Jesus lived and preached his religion. I do doubt that he was able to perform superhuman feats without some form of trickery. And I would like to point out that throughout our time there have been many prophets, even in modern times, though we only seem to think that this great Jesus knew what he was talking about. Take Heaven's Gate: The head (I forget his name) spoke of some great place, and preached of other things that normally. So now let me ask you, why are we so quick to dismiss the head of a cult but accept Jesus's word. A cult has a set of beliefs and ideas just like a religion. The only difference is that a cult is shunned and exiled, while a large established religion is embraced. Both have just as much proof for their ideas, and both in reality have their existences ENTIRELY based on blind faith. And another thing, if you believe everything in the Bible why don't you believe everything in every other book you read. What if I wrote a book called Bible II and said that God does not exist; why would this book be any less accurate than the Bible? Both could be based on stories, and yet display no semblence of any truth, fact, or logic.
Your main problem is that you are trying to prove things based on assumptions. You are assuming that Jesus was the "one", you are assuming that the Bible is an accurate, FACTUAL text, and you are assuming that the babble that you have been told all your life is right. If you ever studied logic, you would know that assumptions can only create implications. I completely agree with the implication that if Jesus existed and told the truth then God exists. But prove to me that Jesus existed and told the truth.
You also assume one more thing when you question my world view - you assume my world view! I don't know how you arrived at all the accusations you are making, but I know for sure that you are putting words into my mouth and making certain things up. I do believe in man's laws. We would not be able to conduct a progressive society without these laws. But these are greatly different than religious laws. For example, in another thread Isla had said she had to destroy her music because it was not "Christian". Doesn't this disturb you? And what about the Church's stance on contraceptives? Do you think it is appropriate to shun condoms when they can prevent both disease and unwanted pregnancy? What about their views on masturbation and homosexuality? Why is this organization based on everything BUT fact repressing peoples' feelings and beliefs.
For the example about the Nazis, you sound very arrogant. You are basically saying that God willed the U.S. to stop the Nazis. Well what kind of God would allow for the killing of over 10 million innocent civilians. Why would I have ANY faith in such a God? For all I know, I could be next. I see just as much hatred, harm, and cruelty in this world as I do positive things. How has God proven himself to people when he lets for daily atrocities to occur.
Can I ask you one more thing, which is an interesting question but I have never heard an answer to? How can all the world religions exist simultaneously when each seems to deny the other, though each seems to have no more proof of their belief than the next.
-mosdef
Your main problem is that you are trying to prove things based on assumptions. You are assuming that Jesus was the "one", you are assuming that the Bible is an accurate, FACTUAL text, and you are assuming that the babble that you have been told all your life is right. If you ever studied logic, you would know that assumptions can only create implications. I completely agree with the implication that if Jesus existed and told the truth then God exists. But prove to me that Jesus existed and told the truth.
You also assume one more thing when you question my world view - you assume my world view! I don't know how you arrived at all the accusations you are making, but I know for sure that you are putting words into my mouth and making certain things up. I do believe in man's laws. We would not be able to conduct a progressive society without these laws. But these are greatly different than religious laws. For example, in another thread Isla had said she had to destroy her music because it was not "Christian". Doesn't this disturb you? And what about the Church's stance on contraceptives? Do you think it is appropriate to shun condoms when they can prevent both disease and unwanted pregnancy? What about their views on masturbation and homosexuality? Why is this organization based on everything BUT fact repressing peoples' feelings and beliefs.
For the example about the Nazis, you sound very arrogant. You are basically saying that God willed the U.S. to stop the Nazis. Well what kind of God would allow for the killing of over 10 million innocent civilians. Why would I have ANY faith in such a God? For all I know, I could be next. I see just as much hatred, harm, and cruelty in this world as I do positive things. How has God proven himself to people when he lets for daily atrocities to occur.
Can I ask you one more thing, which is an interesting question but I have never heard an answer to? How can all the world religions exist simultaneously when each seems to deny the other, though each seems to have no more proof of their belief than the next.
-mosdef
<< Where are you going? What are your goals? In what do you find meaning? >>
After spending a long time achieving and achieving, etc, goals and destination-based thinking really has become completely hollow and meaningless to me. There's always one more step, one more goal, and looking back at one's life becomes looking at a photo album of the precise moments when you achieved something, when 90% of your life were the moments in between that gets forgotten. Now, I have no idea where I'm going, live mostly in the present (no value-based goals), and really have no clue what my purpose is. I'm loving it
<< The complexity of life, beauty of nature, order, morality, life, emotions, knowledge all convince me that there is a Creator. >>
Something about that line makes me think of fractals... maybie its the underlying chaos to everyting...
wolf:
<< my life doesnt have any meaning. i just fluncked a really important math test... >>
Since no one has responded to your post yet, allow me. I had a somewhat troubled time around your age (actually a year later) and also contemplated suicide. Take a step back and look at what you wrote -- a math test. Does it matter in the grand scheme of things? Hardly. Does having a girlfriend matter? Nope. I didn't have one until 17 and that's what precipitated my whole mess which I mentioned. I didn't have another until I was 20. I made up for lost time when I graduated from college -- you will likely do so as well, if not with many with one or two important ones.
Part of my intent in posting this thread was to start some people thinking about what they are doing with their lives. I think that there is no overall meaning to life per se, but there can be meaning for every individual if they were to but seek it out. Even the search gives meaning though just as is mentioned in the several posts about life's journey. Experience, discovery, relationships, family -- these are things that can give our existence purpose and meaning, and it is up to us to define that for ourselves. I have yet to find mine, and I search.
The worst thing we can do with our lives is fritter them away doing nothing. If you head to work or to school, step in line with everyone else and turn off your mind, you are already dead in essence. The happy part about being in such a position is that you can still turn around and find life again, which is why suicide is such a horrible notion. When you take that step, you have removed your future and removed any number of oppurtunities, people, experiences, joys and sorrows from what lies ahead -- because it's gone.
I look back now at what I have done, seen, and experienced in the years since high school, and I shake my head at the thought that it would all be lost now, what never would have happened. I would have never stood in awe staring at the marvelously beautiful marble of St. Peter's in Rome. I would never have seen the crystal blue water of the Mediterranean Sea, not to mention the glorious flesh of the women sunbathing topless there. I would never have walked the ground that kings walked in England or stood on ground that saw the Hungarians boldly fight and defeat the Turks in the 13th century. I would have missed meeting some extraordinary people, and I would never have known the intimacy of some amazing women. All that would never have happened, and there is no greater tragedy than the senseless end to youth.
Right now I am unsure of my future. However, I know that wherever the future takes me, I will be fine. I will see and do things I have not yet seen or done, and I will come out the better for it, be it through adversity or success. The one hard and true fact about life is that it can constantly change, and that keeps it interesting if nothing else.
If one person looks at their life and activates their mind when before it lay dormant, I am happy to have helped that in some small way. It was more my intent to look at how others define themselves, and I have read some interesting insight.
Moonbeam: Innocence is lost, true, sometimes to those who seek to destroy what they have misplaced. It is also lost through mere experience with the world. However, such a loss does not damn us to an eternity of suffering or revenge. I revel in the innocence of children, such as tonight's crowd of hesitant ghosts and goblins. The reminder does not dredge up feelings of hatred, but rather joy at the evoked memory and a wish that theirs can last as long as possible. I find wonderment in some things now even as an adult and in some small way recapture that innocence that was lost. Yours is a dark perspective which I do not share. Perhaps I have not lost as much as you.
<< my life doesnt have any meaning. i just fluncked a really important math test... >>
Since no one has responded to your post yet, allow me. I had a somewhat troubled time around your age (actually a year later) and also contemplated suicide. Take a step back and look at what you wrote -- a math test. Does it matter in the grand scheme of things? Hardly. Does having a girlfriend matter? Nope. I didn't have one until 17 and that's what precipitated my whole mess which I mentioned. I didn't have another until I was 20. I made up for lost time when I graduated from college -- you will likely do so as well, if not with many with one or two important ones.
Part of my intent in posting this thread was to start some people thinking about what they are doing with their lives. I think that there is no overall meaning to life per se, but there can be meaning for every individual if they were to but seek it out. Even the search gives meaning though just as is mentioned in the several posts about life's journey. Experience, discovery, relationships, family -- these are things that can give our existence purpose and meaning, and it is up to us to define that for ourselves. I have yet to find mine, and I search.
The worst thing we can do with our lives is fritter them away doing nothing. If you head to work or to school, step in line with everyone else and turn off your mind, you are already dead in essence. The happy part about being in such a position is that you can still turn around and find life again, which is why suicide is such a horrible notion. When you take that step, you have removed your future and removed any number of oppurtunities, people, experiences, joys and sorrows from what lies ahead -- because it's gone.
I look back now at what I have done, seen, and experienced in the years since high school, and I shake my head at the thought that it would all be lost now, what never would have happened. I would have never stood in awe staring at the marvelously beautiful marble of St. Peter's in Rome. I would never have seen the crystal blue water of the Mediterranean Sea, not to mention the glorious flesh of the women sunbathing topless there. I would never have walked the ground that kings walked in England or stood on ground that saw the Hungarians boldly fight and defeat the Turks in the 13th century. I would have missed meeting some extraordinary people, and I would never have known the intimacy of some amazing women. All that would never have happened, and there is no greater tragedy than the senseless end to youth.
Right now I am unsure of my future. However, I know that wherever the future takes me, I will be fine. I will see and do things I have not yet seen or done, and I will come out the better for it, be it through adversity or success. The one hard and true fact about life is that it can constantly change, and that keeps it interesting if nothing else.
If one person looks at their life and activates their mind when before it lay dormant, I am happy to have helped that in some small way. It was more my intent to look at how others define themselves, and I have read some interesting insight.
Moonbeam: Innocence is lost, true, sometimes to those who seek to destroy what they have misplaced. It is also lost through mere experience with the world. However, such a loss does not damn us to an eternity of suffering or revenge. I revel in the innocence of children, such as tonight's crowd of hesitant ghosts and goblins. The reminder does not dredge up feelings of hatred, but rather joy at the evoked memory and a wish that theirs can last as long as possible. I find wonderment in some things now even as an adult and in some small way recapture that innocence that was lost. Yours is a dark perspective which I do not share. Perhaps I have not lost as much as you.
I first off said that I base everything on the resurrection of Christ. This I specifically said I could not prove. I even gave you one reason. I never said I had accepted historical proof of His resurrection that I could show you. I have the written eye witness accounts which in other cases is factual for society but in the case of Christ is not factual. (it's factual for me through faith though) I am fully aware that not I nor anyone else can prove Christianity. We can make it as logical and plausible as anything else (even more) but there is faith. This I have already said is faith in the resurrection of Christ.
It is accepted by society (even history books) that Jesus lived and was crucified. There may be a couple who deny it but there are those who deny the existance of the sun. If you don't believe Jesus existed then you might as well not believe Amelia Earheart existed. We don't know where her body is so she must not have existed. And you certainly can't believe that Plato and those guys existed.
Of course you would doubt He could do superhuman feats. I would too if I didn't know that He had raised Himself from the dead.
The reason I believe everything in the Bible is because it is His words. The OT is the same scriptures He had during His life time and the NT was written by or under supervision of the apostles who Jesus personally gave some of His authority to. There is no other book that Jesus personally validates. If He did I would believe every word of it also.
As for other cults. I have seen no resurrection from the dead. When it does happen it will validate the Bible even more as he will be the anti-Christ. But none of the cults I have seen have a resurrection witnessed by sane people. That is the difference. Christianity has a real life resurrection. I agree that there is no difference in cults and other religions.
If you write a book that lasts 2000 years, fulfill the prophecies in your book, and resurrect yourself I will read it. Since no one else has done that I do not regard their writings as inspired. Plus the Bible says I already have "all things pertaining to life and godliness" 2 Peter 1:3. Why go get something else.
The Bible is based on much fact. I will say it is all based on fact but they haven't proven all of it yet. The more of ancient civilizations they unearth the more they prove. I was reading not long ago about new evidence of Pontius Pilate. So unlike other religions, knowledge validates the Bible. I even saw someone write on anandtech that after studying some science it is to complex and orderly to be by chance. The more we learn the more we will not be able to explain unless we factor in God. Plus I am a very logical person (I think) and the Bible has helped me to think more logically. God is not the author of confusion. Forgotten reference.
Yes, I assume the Bible is factual, and Jesus is the one both because He rose from the dead. You will see that I base my whole belief system on this. I have dismissed much of what I was told growing up and gone back to the Bible to find the truth that I had not been taught growing up. It is impossible for me to prove that what He said is the truth. I can show you what He says in the Bible and then I can show you how it is true but you don't believe the Bible so that does no good. And of course the evidence that proves he rose from the dead which He said He would do is not good enough for you.
While Jesus' resurrection does prove God's existance there is natural revelation that also proves God's existance. Some may deny this and say that it doesn't prove it as I imagine you would. I could deny that the internet exists. Even using it I could deny it. It still exists though. Morality also proves the existance of God.
I'll try to explain. If one believes in evolution and the big bang then they believe that H and He came together and formed heavier elements which eventually formed something living (nonliving forming something living by chance, hmmm) which eventually formed humans. (this even from a worldly point of view seems hard to believe besides the obvious questions it brings up) But where did the H and He come from? You must believe that it was created or has existed forever. Only two possibilities. If it was created then what created it? If it has existed forever then how do you account for morality, emotions, the laws of logic, etc. I don't see how you can. With my world view however I believe in an omnipotent God who has always existed since eternity past, created man in His own image and therefore we have morality. He also gave us logic by which to reason and emotions. That to me is natural revelation and proves because of the impossibility of the contrary that a God/Creator exists. It appears to me to flow logically while evolution and big bang do not.
As for morality. All you said was "I do believe in man's laws. We would not be able to conduct a progressive society without these laws" That is no answer to my question. I know this. I can explain it. I already did. Can you explain it? My question is "What determines these laws and why should I obey them?" and "If I don't obey them who are you or anyone else to punish me?" I do not see how you can answer these. Yes I was putting words in your mouth. That is because this is a forum and I have to wait until you reply. If we were talking I would not have given you any hints. Please answer the above question. I have thought about it and have never been able to come up with a justifiable answer.
Whatever religious laws you hold to that are unbiblical I am sorry you fell prey to an evil church.
As for Isla getting rid of her CD's. A Christian is to refrain from even the appearance of evil. So if she got rid of derogatory, meaningless, degrading, or other such type of music then I think that is great. Now I wouldn't make a law about it but if the above mentioned things are what one desires then I would rather question if the person is a true Christian (true meaning biblically defined)
As for contraceptives. I see no banishment of them in my Bible and my pastor has never said not to use them. I assume you refer to the catholic church which I do not even attempt to justify their practices. I do not hold to the same things as catholics.
As for homosexuality. The Bible is very clear. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11. That is what I hold to. No one can serve two masters. You'll either love one and hate the other or hate the one and love the other. So I think a church is very wise in not allowing homosexuals into church membership (notice I am not saying into the building to hear the word of God preached) since church membership should be reserved for those who are Christians.
My whole point with the Nazis is that we stopped them because we have morality. We knew that what they were doing was wrong. I again have an explanaton for this. God has given us morality since we are made in His image. Do you have an explanation why we should go into another country and stop them from doing what they wanted to?
The fall of man is the answer to your question. Had Adam and Eve not fallen then it wouldn't be like this. In truth there is no reason you should not be next. As a created being it is your duty to glorify your creator. Not you nor anyone else has done this perfectly except Jesus. So if God so willed He would be just in immediatley sending you to hell to suffer eternal punishment. You are correct though. You have no garuantee of the future. Best to put one's faith in Him now while one still can.
As for your last question. I hope you have not asked Christians this and they could not give you an answer. It is quite simple. An example would do best I believe. If 2+2=4 and 2+3=4 and 2+4=4 what does that mean? Well it means one is right and the others are wrong. No matter how vehemently the others claim they are right, they are wrong. I am surprised you didn't come up with that one yourself. As for which one is 2+2=4, well I have presented quite a bit of evidence and my world view answers all of your questions and my questions, it deals with the sin problem, it makes sense, it has it dates back to creation, it continues to be validated, other religions acknowledge Jesus, but in the end it comes down to this. Christianity has a resurrection that was seen by men and women. And through faith in this God shows mercy and grants salvation.
Those are the things that I am convinced of.
It is accepted by society (even history books) that Jesus lived and was crucified. There may be a couple who deny it but there are those who deny the existance of the sun. If you don't believe Jesus existed then you might as well not believe Amelia Earheart existed. We don't know where her body is so she must not have existed. And you certainly can't believe that Plato and those guys existed.
Of course you would doubt He could do superhuman feats. I would too if I didn't know that He had raised Himself from the dead.
The reason I believe everything in the Bible is because it is His words. The OT is the same scriptures He had during His life time and the NT was written by or under supervision of the apostles who Jesus personally gave some of His authority to. There is no other book that Jesus personally validates. If He did I would believe every word of it also.
As for other cults. I have seen no resurrection from the dead. When it does happen it will validate the Bible even more as he will be the anti-Christ. But none of the cults I have seen have a resurrection witnessed by sane people. That is the difference. Christianity has a real life resurrection. I agree that there is no difference in cults and other religions.
If you write a book that lasts 2000 years, fulfill the prophecies in your book, and resurrect yourself I will read it. Since no one else has done that I do not regard their writings as inspired. Plus the Bible says I already have "all things pertaining to life and godliness" 2 Peter 1:3. Why go get something else.
The Bible is based on much fact. I will say it is all based on fact but they haven't proven all of it yet. The more of ancient civilizations they unearth the more they prove. I was reading not long ago about new evidence of Pontius Pilate. So unlike other religions, knowledge validates the Bible. I even saw someone write on anandtech that after studying some science it is to complex and orderly to be by chance. The more we learn the more we will not be able to explain unless we factor in God. Plus I am a very logical person (I think) and the Bible has helped me to think more logically. God is not the author of confusion. Forgotten reference.
Yes, I assume the Bible is factual, and Jesus is the one both because He rose from the dead. You will see that I base my whole belief system on this. I have dismissed much of what I was told growing up and gone back to the Bible to find the truth that I had not been taught growing up. It is impossible for me to prove that what He said is the truth. I can show you what He says in the Bible and then I can show you how it is true but you don't believe the Bible so that does no good. And of course the evidence that proves he rose from the dead which He said He would do is not good enough for you.
While Jesus' resurrection does prove God's existance there is natural revelation that also proves God's existance. Some may deny this and say that it doesn't prove it as I imagine you would. I could deny that the internet exists. Even using it I could deny it. It still exists though. Morality also proves the existance of God.
I'll try to explain. If one believes in evolution and the big bang then they believe that H and He came together and formed heavier elements which eventually formed something living (nonliving forming something living by chance, hmmm) which eventually formed humans. (this even from a worldly point of view seems hard to believe besides the obvious questions it brings up) But where did the H and He come from? You must believe that it was created or has existed forever. Only two possibilities. If it was created then what created it? If it has existed forever then how do you account for morality, emotions, the laws of logic, etc. I don't see how you can. With my world view however I believe in an omnipotent God who has always existed since eternity past, created man in His own image and therefore we have morality. He also gave us logic by which to reason and emotions. That to me is natural revelation and proves because of the impossibility of the contrary that a God/Creator exists. It appears to me to flow logically while evolution and big bang do not.
As for morality. All you said was "I do believe in man's laws. We would not be able to conduct a progressive society without these laws" That is no answer to my question. I know this. I can explain it. I already did. Can you explain it? My question is "What determines these laws and why should I obey them?" and "If I don't obey them who are you or anyone else to punish me?" I do not see how you can answer these. Yes I was putting words in your mouth. That is because this is a forum and I have to wait until you reply. If we were talking I would not have given you any hints. Please answer the above question. I have thought about it and have never been able to come up with a justifiable answer.
Whatever religious laws you hold to that are unbiblical I am sorry you fell prey to an evil church.
As for Isla getting rid of her CD's. A Christian is to refrain from even the appearance of evil. So if she got rid of derogatory, meaningless, degrading, or other such type of music then I think that is great. Now I wouldn't make a law about it but if the above mentioned things are what one desires then I would rather question if the person is a true Christian (true meaning biblically defined)
As for contraceptives. I see no banishment of them in my Bible and my pastor has never said not to use them. I assume you refer to the catholic church which I do not even attempt to justify their practices. I do not hold to the same things as catholics.
As for homosexuality. The Bible is very clear. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11. That is what I hold to. No one can serve two masters. You'll either love one and hate the other or hate the one and love the other. So I think a church is very wise in not allowing homosexuals into church membership (notice I am not saying into the building to hear the word of God preached) since church membership should be reserved for those who are Christians.
My whole point with the Nazis is that we stopped them because we have morality. We knew that what they were doing was wrong. I again have an explanaton for this. God has given us morality since we are made in His image. Do you have an explanation why we should go into another country and stop them from doing what they wanted to?
The fall of man is the answer to your question. Had Adam and Eve not fallen then it wouldn't be like this. In truth there is no reason you should not be next. As a created being it is your duty to glorify your creator. Not you nor anyone else has done this perfectly except Jesus. So if God so willed He would be just in immediatley sending you to hell to suffer eternal punishment. You are correct though. You have no garuantee of the future. Best to put one's faith in Him now while one still can.
As for your last question. I hope you have not asked Christians this and they could not give you an answer. It is quite simple. An example would do best I believe. If 2+2=4 and 2+3=4 and 2+4=4 what does that mean? Well it means one is right and the others are wrong. No matter how vehemently the others claim they are right, they are wrong. I am surprised you didn't come up with that one yourself. As for which one is 2+2=4, well I have presented quite a bit of evidence and my world view answers all of your questions and my questions, it deals with the sin problem, it makes sense, it has it dates back to creation, it continues to be validated, other religions acknowledge Jesus, but in the end it comes down to this. Christianity has a resurrection that was seen by men and women. And through faith in this God shows mercy and grants salvation.
Those are the things that I am convinced of.
AndrewR, Your words remind me of a story. A lion slipped into a farmers barn to spend a comfortable night. Some time in the night the farmer came in humming softly to attend to some chore. The lion thought to himself, he would not be so cheery if he knew that I were here.
For those few who sleep an imperfect sleep and wake in terror of a lion-dream, word that the dream is a lie is anything but dark. It is the greatest of good news. At our core there is this paradox:
We have all lost everything. That is the feeling we do not let ourselves know we feel. Sometimes events (or intention as in therapy)cause these feelings to break through into conscious (felt). Without some idea of the nature of the phenomenon, the interpretation can be that I am going insane, it is true (not of the feelings, but in reality that I am worthless. This is why some can actually take or seek to take their own lives. They fear that what is becomming conscious is true. It is a lie. In fact we have lost nothing. We are perfect. All the beautiful things that you discribe are real.
For those few who sleep an imperfect sleep and wake in terror of a lion-dream, word that the dream is a lie is anything but dark. It is the greatest of good news. At our core there is this paradox:
We have all lost everything. That is the feeling we do not let ourselves know we feel. Sometimes events (or intention as in therapy)cause these feelings to break through into conscious (felt). Without some idea of the nature of the phenomenon, the interpretation can be that I am going insane, it is true (not of the feelings, but in reality that I am worthless. This is why some can actually take or seek to take their own lives. They fear that what is becomming conscious is true. It is a lie. In fact we have lost nothing. We are perfect. All the beautiful things that you discribe are real.
qacwac: your post was informative, but rather long. it kinda drifted off a little, but then again i guess you were addressing other people besides me.
However, i do have an other side of the coin for you to consider. You said:
<< The reason I believe everything in the Bible is because it is His words. The OT is the same scriptures He had during His life time and the NT was written by or under supervision of the apostles who Jesus personally gave some of His authority to. There is no other book that Jesus personally validates. If He did I would believe every word of it also. >>
You forget the Quran/Koran (however you choose to spell it). Jesus was not around for that. It is by far the newest religion, which is not just a "cult" or a "phase." The entire Koran was revealed during the life of the prophet Mohammad, and it was, in fact, revealed to him by Gabriel, who spoke the direct word of God. Like you said, this is faith, and no one can prove it.
But if you believe Jesus and the Bible to be true, you cannot possibly deny Islam. In fact, Jesus is highly praised and extremely well respected in Islam. He is considered to be one of the greatest prophets. Both religions go hand in hand. The few differences lie in the fact that Islam is a lot more specific in almost everyway. A majority of the accounts and beliefs in both religions overlap. Now you may be quick to dismiss Islam as a possiblity of beign "the religion," but before you do, think of this: it is the last and final religion. It might the final word of God. It narrows down every thing in christianity to detail. sounds to me like God was reitterating his point. Also, as far as i know, there are many interpretations and/or versions of the Bible (i may be wrong). However, there is one and only one version of the Koran. Ofcourse there are translations, but the original has not changed. To me it seems very unfair to rule out future religions. It's the equivalent of saying "The T-Bird is the best processor. Period." Now it makes sense right now (if you're an AMD fan), but what if (hehe "what if" better processors come out in the future? The statement is no longer accurate when you have an obviously better item available later on in time. Now i'm not saying Islam is obviously better than Christianity or that Christianity is wrong; it's not my job to do that. I'm just giving you another perspective of the whole deal.
Also, I don't think it is fair to say that some religions say 2+2=4 while some say 2+3=4, etc etc. You can't say that the Jews or Hindus (any other religion for that matter) are wrong. Heck...Jesus was a Jew. As far as i know, most of the major religions believe in the fact that there is one God. Since you are a christian, you probably believe that too. Which leads me to my next point: try to look at it in a way where all the religions are "correct." Maybe they all overlap in some way. don't try to see what is right and what is wrong. Instead look at the religions in each's frame of time. There were huge gaps in between the revelation of all the religions. To me that seems like God sent his word, it was followed, then the effect wore off, so then he sent a new prophet, and so on. To me this interpretation seems very logical and it totally makes sense (note: "To me".
Going back to your mathematical equations, i see the religions as saying 2+2=4, 8/2=4, 2^2=4, and so on. They all have basically the same overall message about God and living. It is up to the person to decide which path he takes and what kind of lifestyle he chooses.
There is no official "right" or "wrong." I guess we will find out in the End, if you believe in one.
Well there you have it: my input on religion. Hope you enjoyed today's sermon.
However, i do have an other side of the coin for you to consider. You said:
<< The reason I believe everything in the Bible is because it is His words. The OT is the same scriptures He had during His life time and the NT was written by or under supervision of the apostles who Jesus personally gave some of His authority to. There is no other book that Jesus personally validates. If He did I would believe every word of it also. >>
You forget the Quran/Koran (however you choose to spell it). Jesus was not around for that. It is by far the newest religion, which is not just a "cult" or a "phase." The entire Koran was revealed during the life of the prophet Mohammad, and it was, in fact, revealed to him by Gabriel, who spoke the direct word of God. Like you said, this is faith, and no one can prove it.
But if you believe Jesus and the Bible to be true, you cannot possibly deny Islam. In fact, Jesus is highly praised and extremely well respected in Islam. He is considered to be one of the greatest prophets. Both religions go hand in hand. The few differences lie in the fact that Islam is a lot more specific in almost everyway. A majority of the accounts and beliefs in both religions overlap. Now you may be quick to dismiss Islam as a possiblity of beign "the religion," but before you do, think of this: it is the last and final religion. It might the final word of God. It narrows down every thing in christianity to detail. sounds to me like God was reitterating his point. Also, as far as i know, there are many interpretations and/or versions of the Bible (i may be wrong). However, there is one and only one version of the Koran. Ofcourse there are translations, but the original has not changed. To me it seems very unfair to rule out future religions. It's the equivalent of saying "The T-Bird is the best processor. Period." Now it makes sense right now (if you're an AMD fan), but what if (hehe "what if"
better processors come out in the future? The statement is no longer accurate when you have an obviously better item available later on in time. Now i'm not saying Islam is obviously better than Christianity or that Christianity is wrong; it's not my job to do that. I'm just giving you another perspective of the whole deal.Also, I don't think it is fair to say that some religions say 2+2=4 while some say 2+3=4, etc etc. You can't say that the Jews or Hindus (any other religion for that matter) are wrong. Heck...Jesus was a Jew. As far as i know, most of the major religions believe in the fact that there is one God. Since you are a christian, you probably believe that too. Which leads me to my next point: try to look at it in a way where all the religions are "correct." Maybe they all overlap in some way. don't try to see what is right and what is wrong. Instead look at the religions in each's frame of time. There were huge gaps in between the revelation of all the religions. To me that seems like God sent his word, it was followed, then the effect wore off, so then he sent a new prophet, and so on. To me this interpretation seems very logical and it totally makes sense (note: "To me"
.Going back to your mathematical equations, i see the religions as saying 2+2=4, 8/2=4, 2^2=4, and so on. They all have basically the same overall message about God and living. It is up to the person to decide which path he takes and what kind of lifestyle he chooses.
There is no official "right" or "wrong." I guess we will find out in the End, if you believe in one.
Well there you have it: my input on religion. Hope you enjoyed today's sermon.
Thank you for reading my post. My apologies to all for my rambling. And for their length.
Warning!!! Do not read this if you cannot take some one saying they are right.
Here are my problems with the Koran. You are right; Jesus, who raised Himself from the dead, was not living on earth when it was written. Therefore He did not validate it. He did validate the OT and gave the apostles the authority to write the New Testament. Nowhere is authority given to Mohammed. So I see no reason why I should believe the Koran. The Bible also tells me the Bible is sufficient. So when 2 Peter 1:3 says, ??we have been given all things that pertain to life and godliness?? that settles it for me. I don?t need anything else. There is also the fact that the only reason we have the NT is because it brought about a whole new covenantal relationship with God. Mohammed did not bring about a new covenant so why should there be any new scriptures? The covenant brought about by Jesus? death and resurrection is still in existence and will be till He comes again.
You have only Mohammed?s word that it was given to him by Gabriel. (Notice he went up on a mountain away from everybody) This in itself proves nothing but is suspicious.
There are many eyewitness accounts of Jesus? life and miracles and His death and resurrection, which were done in public.
Jesus fulfilled the OT prophecies and will the rest at His second coming.
I know of none that Mohammed fulfilled?
It is precisely my absolute belief in the Bible and Jesus that tells me to deny Islam. Islamic belief that Jesus was a great prophet is good. But that?s not all He is. He is the prophet and God the Son. He did not teach that He was just a great prophet.
He taught that, ?I and my Father are one.? John 10:30
And John 14:6, ?Jesus answered, ?I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.? Notice He does not say, ?Belief in the Father leads to the Father? So right there He abolishes all other religions, even monotheist ones. That is why Christians aren?t universalists. So how can I accept or agree with Islam when this is not what they teach. I would be denying my beliefs.
I do not see how Christianity goes hand in hand with Islam. I see how Islam needs Christianity and uses Christ for one of its prophets but Christianity did not need Islam for 500 years and does not now. I am a Christian and I have never used the Koran nor regard Mohammed as a prophet. I can see much more of a relationship between Jewish religion and Christianity except that the Jews missed Christ and are still looking for a Messiah
I can also see how the beliefs overlap. Since Christianity was already established Mohammed borrowed some of it.
If God was narrowing down Christianity by Islam then Islamic beliefs would be Jesus is God the Son, He lived a perfect life, died a substitutionary death on a cross and was raised from the dead three days later. Those are the essential doctrines of Christianity. That is not Islam at all.
There is a reason I rule out future religions. In the OT the Jews went through a cycle of falling away, leader raised up, restoration, prosperity, then falling away again and the cycle started over. The leader, prophet, judge or whoever restored the people was only able to keep the people in obedience for his lifetime and maybe a little after his death. That is what the Old Covenant is and is recorded in the Old Testament. The New Covenant however ended this. When God sent Jesus, His only begotten son, He ended the need for continual restoration. What more can be done than the death of the perfect Jesus Christ, God the Son. Nothing more needs be done. He fulfilled it for all time. That is why Christianity has lasted for the past 2000 years without any new prophet being raised up. Christ did what no human could do. Satisfy the wrath of God (more on that later). So yes I rule out future religions because in Christ?s death and resurrection He validated His claims to be the Son of God and the only way to the Father. (above mentioned references)
Let me restate my math example. 2+2=4 is Jesus is the Son of God, lived a perfect life, died on the cross, was raised from the dead, and is the only way to the Father.
Now 3+1=4 may be Presbyterian and 2*2 may be Baptist. But if you do not have the above mentioned then I think you are saying 3+2=4 or maybe some try and get close and use Christ + works such as 2+2.1=4.
Here are my problems not only with Islam but with every religion other than Christianity. Maybe someone can explain it to me. I know there is a God. The impossibility of the contrary and natural revelation. (morality, emotions, knowledge, order, something from nothing, etc.) I know that there is right and wrong, (if you say no then do not get angry when your sister or someone gets raped, it?s not wrong, there is no right and wrong) I know that I have done wrong. I know that a righteous, holy and just God must require punishment for my wrongs. I know that I have no excuse. Therefore I know I need a Savior, someone who can take my place and has not done wrong.
Neither Mohammed nor anyone else offers me any help. All they can say is do this and don?t do that. That?s not what I need. I already have a massive heap of wrongs. That only adds to it. I need someone to take away all of my wrongs of the past, present, and future. (I believe all of this can be arrived at from natural revelation, i.e. the Native American had similar beliefs before being exposed to the Bible)
So after I come to this and survey the religions only one offers hope.
Jesus is the only one who offers me any help. He is the only one who can stand before a perfect, just and holy God and not be condemned. So that is why I am a Christian, it is the only one that makes any sense to me.
No I do not agree that all religions teach the same thing about God. I believe in a just, righteous, holy, loving, and perfect God who holds everyone accountable for his or her sins. He has to because He is just. Yet He is loving and has therefore given us ?the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.? Romans 1:16
Yes it will be made known at the Judgment, the beginning of eternity. ?For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.? Romans 14:11
I kind of see it like a cop who pulls someone over. The person can deny that he?s a cop all he wants to. Even if the cop has a badge, a gun, the car, the cuffs, everything, the guy can still deny it. But y\he know when the cop throws him in jail. Of course then it will be to late. So it will be with God. I thank God that Christ paid my ticket before I got to the jail.
Well that is my understanding with the light that I have been given.
Warning!!! Do not read this if you cannot take some one saying they are right.
Here are my problems with the Koran. You are right; Jesus, who raised Himself from the dead, was not living on earth when it was written. Therefore He did not validate it. He did validate the OT and gave the apostles the authority to write the New Testament. Nowhere is authority given to Mohammed. So I see no reason why I should believe the Koran. The Bible also tells me the Bible is sufficient. So when 2 Peter 1:3 says, ??we have been given all things that pertain to life and godliness?? that settles it for me. I don?t need anything else. There is also the fact that the only reason we have the NT is because it brought about a whole new covenantal relationship with God. Mohammed did not bring about a new covenant so why should there be any new scriptures? The covenant brought about by Jesus? death and resurrection is still in existence and will be till He comes again.
You have only Mohammed?s word that it was given to him by Gabriel. (Notice he went up on a mountain away from everybody) This in itself proves nothing but is suspicious.
There are many eyewitness accounts of Jesus? life and miracles and His death and resurrection, which were done in public.
Jesus fulfilled the OT prophecies and will the rest at His second coming.
I know of none that Mohammed fulfilled?
It is precisely my absolute belief in the Bible and Jesus that tells me to deny Islam. Islamic belief that Jesus was a great prophet is good. But that?s not all He is. He is the prophet and God the Son. He did not teach that He was just a great prophet.
He taught that, ?I and my Father are one.? John 10:30
And John 14:6, ?Jesus answered, ?I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.? Notice He does not say, ?Belief in the Father leads to the Father? So right there He abolishes all other religions, even monotheist ones. That is why Christians aren?t universalists. So how can I accept or agree with Islam when this is not what they teach. I would be denying my beliefs.
I do not see how Christianity goes hand in hand with Islam. I see how Islam needs Christianity and uses Christ for one of its prophets but Christianity did not need Islam for 500 years and does not now. I am a Christian and I have never used the Koran nor regard Mohammed as a prophet. I can see much more of a relationship between Jewish religion and Christianity except that the Jews missed Christ and are still looking for a Messiah
I can also see how the beliefs overlap. Since Christianity was already established Mohammed borrowed some of it.
If God was narrowing down Christianity by Islam then Islamic beliefs would be Jesus is God the Son, He lived a perfect life, died a substitutionary death on a cross and was raised from the dead three days later. Those are the essential doctrines of Christianity. That is not Islam at all.
There is a reason I rule out future religions. In the OT the Jews went through a cycle of falling away, leader raised up, restoration, prosperity, then falling away again and the cycle started over. The leader, prophet, judge or whoever restored the people was only able to keep the people in obedience for his lifetime and maybe a little after his death. That is what the Old Covenant is and is recorded in the Old Testament. The New Covenant however ended this. When God sent Jesus, His only begotten son, He ended the need for continual restoration. What more can be done than the death of the perfect Jesus Christ, God the Son. Nothing more needs be done. He fulfilled it for all time. That is why Christianity has lasted for the past 2000 years without any new prophet being raised up. Christ did what no human could do. Satisfy the wrath of God (more on that later). So yes I rule out future religions because in Christ?s death and resurrection He validated His claims to be the Son of God and the only way to the Father. (above mentioned references)
Let me restate my math example. 2+2=4 is Jesus is the Son of God, lived a perfect life, died on the cross, was raised from the dead, and is the only way to the Father.
Now 3+1=4 may be Presbyterian and 2*2 may be Baptist. But if you do not have the above mentioned then I think you are saying 3+2=4 or maybe some try and get close and use Christ + works such as 2+2.1=4.
Here are my problems not only with Islam but with every religion other than Christianity. Maybe someone can explain it to me. I know there is a God. The impossibility of the contrary and natural revelation. (morality, emotions, knowledge, order, something from nothing, etc.) I know that there is right and wrong, (if you say no then do not get angry when your sister or someone gets raped, it?s not wrong, there is no right and wrong) I know that I have done wrong. I know that a righteous, holy and just God must require punishment for my wrongs. I know that I have no excuse. Therefore I know I need a Savior, someone who can take my place and has not done wrong.
Neither Mohammed nor anyone else offers me any help. All they can say is do this and don?t do that. That?s not what I need. I already have a massive heap of wrongs. That only adds to it. I need someone to take away all of my wrongs of the past, present, and future. (I believe all of this can be arrived at from natural revelation, i.e. the Native American had similar beliefs before being exposed to the Bible)
So after I come to this and survey the religions only one offers hope.
Jesus is the only one who offers me any help. He is the only one who can stand before a perfect, just and holy God and not be condemned. So that is why I am a Christian, it is the only one that makes any sense to me.
No I do not agree that all religions teach the same thing about God. I believe in a just, righteous, holy, loving, and perfect God who holds everyone accountable for his or her sins. He has to because He is just. Yet He is loving and has therefore given us ?the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.? Romans 1:16
Yes it will be made known at the Judgment, the beginning of eternity. ?For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.? Romans 14:11
I kind of see it like a cop who pulls someone over. The person can deny that he?s a cop all he wants to. Even if the cop has a badge, a gun, the car, the cuffs, everything, the guy can still deny it. But y\he know when the cop throws him in jail. Of course then it will be to late. So it will be with God. I thank God that Christ paid my ticket before I got to the jail.
Well that is my understanding with the light that I have been given.
ok...you are incorrect about a lot of the facts/history you mentioned (eg: new testament was done before islam was there, so how could it possible deny it???). you said Islam uses Christianity. No it doesn't. It is not based on any prior religion. Several aspects just overlap. In case you didn't know, there were not many christians in arabia. 90% of the people were "pagans" who worshipped idols. how could Mohammed base Islam on christianity then when no one preached it to him? as far as i know, and i'm pretty sure of this, christianity did not spread all the way to arabia and to Mohammed. He was surrounded by idol worshippers who tormented him and everyone else. christianity was hardly even there (i say hardly because there is a possiblity that a few christians were there, but i *highly* doubt it). you make all these assumptions but you're justu wrong. you also boldly go out and say what is part of islam and what is not. yet you yourself clearly say that you have not read the Koran. So obviously, you have absolutely nothing to back up what you say. That is why you are wrong and nothing you say about other religions has any validity. Sure you know a lot about being a christian but that is all you know. nothing more.
as for your problem with other religions: sounds to me like you want someone to spoon feed you or literally take you to heaven by your hand. what's the matter? why can't you think you can earn your own way into heaven. now your answer might be "because i have sinned." however, so has everyone else. God will not throw everyone except for a handful of people into hell. you said Mohammed does not give you any help. obviously not if you haven't read the Koran. If you ever get the sense to read it before making all these claims, you will realize that he was a great man. his life was the example of goodness. look at it this way: Jesus was good man who loved everyone, and he believed and feared God. Mohammed was the very same. He even loved his enemies and forgave them. Now you probably want to debate the whole "son of God" thing. the way i see it, jesus is the son of God because God created him without a human father. however, it does not mean that God is his "biological" father. Islam does not say that jesus is God's son because if it did, people would start to worship Jesus instead of God. Actually, after the revelation of christianity, a lot of "religious" people took the emphasis off God and put it to Jesus. people forget God and think that it is only Christ who will send them to heaven and hell. but that is wrong. God has the final word. Even you should believe that. Now i'm not saying you have to believe this interpretation, because i know you won't. it makes sense to me, that is all i care about. i'm not even asking you to believe what i say, because i'm no preacher. i'm trying to convert people to any religion. that is their own choice. you on the other hand are trying to convert everyone else. you disrespect everyone who does not see everything your way. to me you seem like a frightened deer in headlights who can't decide anything for himself. You're afraid to actually consider anything anyone else says. You just can't seem to handle that others may have a point. You're in serious denial.
but you yourself just proved the intolerance of your beliefs. you are so loving and forgiving. not to mention open-minded. and according to what you said, it seems to me like you're all using christ to buy your way into heaven. as long as you believe in him, you're all set. some one can try, with a half-ass effort, or none at all, to be a "good person" but as long as be believes in christ, he'll be pardoned for all his his sins. nice.
again, i'd like to emphasize that i am not saying what is right and what is wrong. i'm not condoning or blessing you or anyone else. in fact, i couldn't care less about what you believe. i'm just expressing what i have to say, and this is all i have to say. i am done talking about religion.
as for your problem with other religions: sounds to me like you want someone to spoon feed you or literally take you to heaven by your hand. what's the matter? why can't you think you can earn your own way into heaven. now your answer might be "because i have sinned." however, so has everyone else. God will not throw everyone except for a handful of people into hell. you said Mohammed does not give you any help. obviously not if you haven't read the Koran. If you ever get the sense to read it before making all these claims, you will realize that he was a great man. his life was the example of goodness. look at it this way: Jesus was good man who loved everyone, and he believed and feared God. Mohammed was the very same. He even loved his enemies and forgave them. Now you probably want to debate the whole "son of God" thing. the way i see it, jesus is the son of God because God created him without a human father. however, it does not mean that God is his "biological" father. Islam does not say that jesus is God's son because if it did, people would start to worship Jesus instead of God. Actually, after the revelation of christianity, a lot of "religious" people took the emphasis off God and put it to Jesus. people forget God and think that it is only Christ who will send them to heaven and hell. but that is wrong. God has the final word. Even you should believe that. Now i'm not saying you have to believe this interpretation, because i know you won't. it makes sense to me, that is all i care about. i'm not even asking you to believe what i say, because i'm no preacher. i'm trying to convert people to any religion. that is their own choice. you on the other hand are trying to convert everyone else. you disrespect everyone who does not see everything your way. to me you seem like a frightened deer in headlights who can't decide anything for himself. You're afraid to actually consider anything anyone else says. You just can't seem to handle that others may have a point. You're in serious denial.
but you yourself just proved the intolerance of your beliefs. you are so loving and forgiving. not to mention open-minded. and according to what you said, it seems to me like you're all using christ to buy your way into heaven. as long as you believe in him, you're all set. some one can try, with a half-ass effort, or none at all, to be a "good person" but as long as be believes in christ, he'll be pardoned for all his his sins. nice.
again, i'd like to emphasize that i am not saying what is right and what is wrong. i'm not condoning or blessing you or anyone else. in fact, i couldn't care less about what you believe. i'm just expressing what i have to say, and this is all i have to say. i am done talking about religion.
I went and listened to an educated Islamic guy tonight. He is a comparative theology guy and definitely a Muslim who knows Islam and lives it. It was pretty informative (how they started algebra, which resulted in calculus, how one of them mapped the blood flow 500 years before the guy who got credit for it, and some other stuff) This of course fits into my world view because I have no problem admitting that man (whites, blacks, arabs) are created in the image of God. They have the abilty to think and reason. God shows general grace to all men. So I know claim to have a little knowledge.
Anyhow.
Islam uses the Bible as one of it's divine scripture. They deny much of what it says (I had wondered about this and the guy said so) but they know that they must use part of it else no one would join their religion. Plus they know they can't deny it because it is historically accurate. So what do they do? Keep it as a scripture but deny it's words. So yes it does use Christianity. Without Judaism and Christianity it would be one guy claiming an already accepted belief. But if he says he is the final prophet and claims to follow in the order of Adam, Abraham, Moses, and Jesus then he is readily accepted. (these are people this expert named numerous times to try to get acceptance by the Christians listening) You take them away Islam and is not much. These are all valid statements.
I have no problem admitting that without the OT Judaism, Christianity would not be much. There would be no prophecies for Christ to fulfill. It is the fact that Jesus does fulfill these by his birth, death, and resurrection that proves it. So I am thankful for Judaism. Islam however does not fulfill any Old Testament, Old Covenant, New Testament, New Covenant prophecies. So they shoot themsleves in the leg. There other scriptures speak nothing of them while the OT tells of Christ's coming and the NT quotes the OT.
I thank you for saying I know a lot about being a Christian but I must deny that. I have only spoke of the very basic essentials. Which certainly are great but I am by no means an expert.
Yes, I want someone to take me to heaven. I would think most people would agree with me on that one. What would you rather do fly to the moon or go in a space ship? Obviously if you truly want to go to the moon then you'll take the space ship because you can't fly. It's the only way to get there. So it is with Christ. He is the only person who can do that. You say everyone has sinned. That is an excellent thing to say. Knowledge of sin is essential to God's saving grace. God will never save someone unless He has shown them what He is saving them from. However we differ greatly from here. I believe because God is just and righteous He has to by His divine nature throw all who have sinned into hell. As I said before unless when God looks at the sinner He does not see the sin but sees Christ's perfect righteousness and obedience. Now if there were no one who the blood of Christ covered and imparted His righteousness to then God would throw everyone into hell. His divine character demands it. Plus He has in many places said so quite directly in the Bible (no time to look up references)
As for not reading the Koran. You are correct. I view it kind of like agents who look for counterfeit bills (dollar bills) They do not go and study all the counterfeit bills because new ones come up all the time. Instead they focus so much on the authentic bills that they can tell just from the touch. So no matter what new counterfeit comes out, they can distinguish it from the true one. So I would much rather and think profit more if I study the Bible that I may refute all counterfeits instead of focusing on a counterfeit. And I don't need to. The guy answered my question. It was the last thing he said before I had to go. You get to heaven by living and being good. You go to hell for doing bad. I've done bad so I deserve hell. Islam helps me none. It just tells me to do that which know I cannot do and not to do that which I know I will do.
Without going into the whole doctrine of the Trinity I believe that the Lord my God is but one only living and true God whose subsistence is in and of Himself, infinite in being and perfection. In this divine and infinite Being are three substistences, the Father, the Word or Son, and Holy Spirit, of one substance, power and eternity, each having the whole divine essence, yet the essence undivided: the Father is of none, neither beotten nor proceeding; the Son is eternally begotten of the Father; the Holy Spirit proceeding from the Father and the Son; all infinite, without beginning, therefore but one God. There is more but you get the idea.
God and Jesus are inseparable as above mentioned. Part of my worship of God is worship of the Son and part worship of the Father and part the Spirit but always God. I agree some get it out of proportion and just worship the Spirit but that does not deny that the Son to is to be worshipped. There are texts in Revelation where Jesus is worshipped and He does not deny it. All of the angels and men do deny it because it is not right for them ot be worshipped but here the Son shows He is to be worshipped.
Yes I believe God does have the final word on salvation. His nature has already determined the outcome. I believe God also has the final say on the means by which He will judge. And He has said "For by grace are you saved, through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is a gift of God" Ephesians 2:8,9 And what must we put our faith in to get this righteousness? "Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:" Romans 3:22
I also am not telling anyone what to believe. I am simply telling what I am convinced is the truth. The reader may do with it as he will.
I am sorry you see me that way. I will tell you that I went through the most difficult time of my life when I was deciding these things. I had to decide what was the most important thing, my girlfriend, family, friends, career, money, and everything else I had and was going after or the truths of God. And for a time I lost everything except one friend, and he was hours away. So I have decided.
As for considering what anyone else says. I do enjoy when someone posts what the Bible says and gives me greater understanding for it. And after going to the Islam speech tonight I can say that their world view does not work and mine does. And after talking ot others here I can say they are inconsistent with their world view and I am not. So yes I consider it and it only strengthens my faith and beliefs.
I do not know if you are a make or female but whatever ou are if someone says that you are the opposite sex do you consider it? Are you not thoroughly convinced of your sex? So it is with me. I know Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God and so I do not even consider whether that is true or not. I'm am as convinced of it as you are of you sex.
Anyhow.
Islam uses the Bible as one of it's divine scripture. They deny much of what it says (I had wondered about this and the guy said so) but they know that they must use part of it else no one would join their religion. Plus they know they can't deny it because it is historically accurate. So what do they do? Keep it as a scripture but deny it's words. So yes it does use Christianity. Without Judaism and Christianity it would be one guy claiming an already accepted belief. But if he says he is the final prophet and claims to follow in the order of Adam, Abraham, Moses, and Jesus then he is readily accepted. (these are people this expert named numerous times to try to get acceptance by the Christians listening) You take them away Islam and is not much. These are all valid statements.
I have no problem admitting that without the OT Judaism, Christianity would not be much. There would be no prophecies for Christ to fulfill. It is the fact that Jesus does fulfill these by his birth, death, and resurrection that proves it. So I am thankful for Judaism. Islam however does not fulfill any Old Testament, Old Covenant, New Testament, New Covenant prophecies. So they shoot themsleves in the leg. There other scriptures speak nothing of them while the OT tells of Christ's coming and the NT quotes the OT.
I thank you for saying I know a lot about being a Christian but I must deny that. I have only spoke of the very basic essentials. Which certainly are great but I am by no means an expert.
Yes, I want someone to take me to heaven. I would think most people would agree with me on that one. What would you rather do fly to the moon or go in a space ship? Obviously if you truly want to go to the moon then you'll take the space ship because you can't fly. It's the only way to get there. So it is with Christ. He is the only person who can do that. You say everyone has sinned. That is an excellent thing to say. Knowledge of sin is essential to God's saving grace. God will never save someone unless He has shown them what He is saving them from. However we differ greatly from here. I believe because God is just and righteous He has to by His divine nature throw all who have sinned into hell. As I said before unless when God looks at the sinner He does not see the sin but sees Christ's perfect righteousness and obedience. Now if there were no one who the blood of Christ covered and imparted His righteousness to then God would throw everyone into hell. His divine character demands it. Plus He has in many places said so quite directly in the Bible (no time to look up references)
As for not reading the Koran. You are correct. I view it kind of like agents who look for counterfeit bills (dollar bills) They do not go and study all the counterfeit bills because new ones come up all the time. Instead they focus so much on the authentic bills that they can tell just from the touch. So no matter what new counterfeit comes out, they can distinguish it from the true one. So I would much rather and think profit more if I study the Bible that I may refute all counterfeits instead of focusing on a counterfeit. And I don't need to. The guy answered my question. It was the last thing he said before I had to go. You get to heaven by living and being good. You go to hell for doing bad. I've done bad so I deserve hell. Islam helps me none. It just tells me to do that which know I cannot do and not to do that which I know I will do.
Without going into the whole doctrine of the Trinity I believe that the Lord my God is but one only living and true God whose subsistence is in and of Himself, infinite in being and perfection. In this divine and infinite Being are three substistences, the Father, the Word or Son, and Holy Spirit, of one substance, power and eternity, each having the whole divine essence, yet the essence undivided: the Father is of none, neither beotten nor proceeding; the Son is eternally begotten of the Father; the Holy Spirit proceeding from the Father and the Son; all infinite, without beginning, therefore but one God. There is more but you get the idea.
God and Jesus are inseparable as above mentioned. Part of my worship of God is worship of the Son and part worship of the Father and part the Spirit but always God. I agree some get it out of proportion and just worship the Spirit but that does not deny that the Son to is to be worshipped. There are texts in Revelation where Jesus is worshipped and He does not deny it. All of the angels and men do deny it because it is not right for them ot be worshipped but here the Son shows He is to be worshipped.
Yes I believe God does have the final word on salvation. His nature has already determined the outcome. I believe God also has the final say on the means by which He will judge. And He has said "For by grace are you saved, through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is a gift of God" Ephesians 2:8,9 And what must we put our faith in to get this righteousness? "Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:" Romans 3:22
I also am not telling anyone what to believe. I am simply telling what I am convinced is the truth. The reader may do with it as he will.
I am sorry you see me that way. I will tell you that I went through the most difficult time of my life when I was deciding these things. I had to decide what was the most important thing, my girlfriend, family, friends, career, money, and everything else I had and was going after or the truths of God. And for a time I lost everything except one friend, and he was hours away. So I have decided.
As for considering what anyone else says. I do enjoy when someone posts what the Bible says and gives me greater understanding for it. And after going to the Islam speech tonight I can say that their world view does not work and mine does. And after talking ot others here I can say they are inconsistent with their world view and I am not. So yes I consider it and it only strengthens my faith and beliefs.
I do not know if you are a make or female but whatever ou are if someone says that you are the opposite sex do you consider it? Are you not thoroughly convinced of your sex? So it is with me. I know Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God and so I do not even consider whether that is true or not. I'm am as convinced of it as you are of you sex.
why are you so convinced that christianity is the only way to go? you've only been deeply exposed to one religion.
It is the only one that answers the sin problem. (as I have laid out many times here and in other threads) I have looked at Mormons, Catholics, Islams. Most of the rest believe in more than one God which goes against my logic, natural revelation, and the words of Jesus so I dismiss them.Plus I don't meet many of these so my knowledge of them is not that high a priority.
Can anyone give me an answer to the sin problem besides the one I have given? If someone can then I'll consider it and weigh it with Christianity.
Can anyone give me an answer to the sin problem besides the one I have given? If someone can then I'll consider it and weigh it with Christianity.
why not try buddhism? i am no buddhist but as far as i know there are far more buddhists in the world then the christians.
wow. some folks are writing entire novels on here!
as for my meaning in life , socrates put it best, "i know that i know not what i do not know".
as for my meaning in life , socrates put it best, "i know that i know not what i do not know".
I'll explain myself. What are the implications of God. Omnipotence is the biggest one. That means all-powerful. Now how can more than one God exist? How can there be two all-powerful beings? It is a contradiction. So how can I try something that makes absolutely no sense to me when what I have does make sense.
I don't know how factual you statement is BrotherMan but if it is that doesn't affect me too much.
I don't know how factual you statement is BrotherMan but if it is that doesn't affect me too much.
qacwac,
There is no logic when supreme beings come into play. Besides, why can't two all-powerful beings coexist? Also, what exactly is the sin problem? Your explanations are really vague.
There is no logic when supreme beings come into play. Besides, why can't two all-powerful beings coexist? Also, what exactly is the sin problem? Your explanations are really vague.
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