What is the legality behind pirating and then buying a game?

[ramj70]

It is fine that you disagree. Obeying a law because it is the law isn't something I agree with. I will never see "It's already the law" as a justification for a law. A stupid law is a stupid law, my analogies with past stupid laws are sound(There are people even today who think some of my examples of past laws were good laws). You are free to agree or disagree with if a certain law is stupid or not. We'll have to agree to disagree.

Many of my points have not been argued as to why there is a problem. What is the difference between going to a bookstore and reading a little bit of a book you were considering to buy and doing the same thing with a game through the internet? Why is one action completely legal and one not? The answer is an arbitrary law. There is no difference between a book and a game at all. My local music store lets you scan the barcode on a CD and listen to the songs on it all you want before you buy. Is it piracy to borrow a game from a friend and then buy it later? How about borrowing a game from a friend, finishing it, then giving it back to the friend and not buying the game at all? Should be people be fined for that? Arrested? It should be clear that copyright laws regarding software and games is based on very fuzzy logic at best.

"My local music store lets you scan the barcode on a CD and listen to the songs on it all you want before you buy"

That's pretty much what it comes down to isn't it, what the business or owner of that property allows you to do with it. You like your local music store and you do business there. If another store doesn't do it that way then don't go there. If a person or company doesn't mind someone pirating a game then download it. If a person or company does not want people to do that then we should respect that and move on.

I'm sure you have certain rules you want people to abide by if they use your property, so why not show the same respect for others. You may not like it but they are the ones who developed it, spent countless hours on it to make it.

I'm not sure why so many people think they are entitled to have everything the way they want it. Not to mention the lack of respect and common courtesy towards other peoples work.

 

[dguy6789]

Let's say a company advertises a game as the best game ever. I buy it because it's the best game ever. When I play it, I find out that it is in fact not the best game ever, and could even be considered a rather poor game. I spent my hard earned money on an expensive item that does nothing that it promises. I can't return it, I can't get my money back. Do you guys like having no way around this kind of problem? It is like a company selling a box that says it has bananas inside but I find out after I buy it that it is a box full of ramen noodles but can't return it.

 

[KeithTalent]

I'm not sure why so many people think they are entitled to have everything the way they want it. Not to mention the lack of respect and common courtesy towards other peoples work.

I think this about sums up the attitudes of so many people these days, especially younger people. So many believe they are entitled to everything these days without having to pay for it. It is stealing, plain and simple. It's black and white. No question.

Something not matching up to your expectations does not give you the right to steal it.

KT

 

[AndroidVageta]

I stopped reading right here. You're a moron if you think this makes any sense. A cup of sugar is a consumable item, already purchased. Your taking it deprives only your neighbor of the item, and in your example is assumed to be given freely. There is no concern, legal or moral, about this.

Software is not a physical consumable. The law governs the use of copies. Don't be an idiot.

This is why I nor anyone else cares what you say...you won't even read a post in whole to support your argument in this thread. Same thing youve been doing to all the posts that go against your opinion...very picky and selective when you read. Hard headed as they say, nothing can convince you other wise...even if a Supreme Court judge told you it was OK youd still argue and disagree...again, hard headed, plain and simple.

 

[CoinOperatedBoy]

I don't see the problem with a photocopy as long as you only use it for what is intended(Something to try and dispose of to help determine if the product is worth buying). Afterall, reading the first chapter of a book in a store or in your home is the same thing. Why does the location matter? It's certainly easy to just keep it, but to assume everyone would and is just looking for something for free isn't fair. Some people are just trying to avoid being ripped off by false promises, advertising, and everything else.

The location doesn't matter, per se, but you are nonetheless not permitted to leave the store with the book itself or a copy, in full or in part, without paying for it. You may be permitted to read it in the store, but that's it. Copying without authorization is a crime, in the same vein as software.

The difference is, if you download a copy of a game to your own computer it becomes your possession without payment. You are free to consume it in its entirety at your leisure.

If we lived in a world of unicorns and gumdrop houses where we could rely on people to pay for everything based on an honor system, this would be different. Personally, I don't think we can assume that people will consistently pay for things they've already acquired for free, and this problem is the basis of copyright law, for better or worse.

 

[AndroidVageta]

I think this about sums up the attitudes of so many people these days, especially younger people. So many believe they are entitled to everything these days without having to pay for it. It is stealing, plain and simple. It's black and white. No question.

Something not matching up to your expectations does not give you the right to steal it.

KT

See...you say entitled to without having to pay. It is stealing, plain and simply.

I agree with this 100% if all you do is pirate and not pay for anything...but how is it stealing if you download the game, play is a couple days then BUY the game...that is NOT stealing.

 

[Cogman]

Legally it's not okay and you could get in trouble.

Morally, it's perfectly okay. It's BS that you have to buy a game at full price to try it and you can't return it or get a refund if you don't like it. Nothing wrong with trying before you buy as long as you buy it if you intend to keep it.

Its called a demo, and most games have them.

 

[smackababy]

Claiming the law is unjust or stupid is not a defense in court.

Actually, this is a perfectly valid defense. If this has, without my knowledge, become the defacto way, I live leave the country I am in promptly. Simply because something had been made into a law does not make it just or right. How many laws have been stricken from the books for being unjust? That is the RIGHT of every American, as far as I'm concerned. When that right is taken away, I will no longer consider myself an American.

 

[AndroidVageta]

Its called a demo, and most games have them.

Most major titles now a days do not have demos...

 

[CoinOperatedBoy]

Let's say a company advertises a game as the best game ever. I buy it because it's the best game ever. When I play it, I find out that it is in fact not the best game ever, and could even be considered a rather poor game. I spent my hard earned money on an expensive item that does nothing that it promises. I can't return it, I can't get my money back. Do you guys like having no way around this kind of problem? It is like a company selling a box that says it has bananas inside but I find out after I buy it that it is a box full of ramen noodles but can't return it.

No, I would not like that, but I'm aware of software return policies and would accept that it was my responsibility to research the game properly ahead of time if no rental or demo were available.

Your last line is yet another bad analogy. If you buy something labeled as bananas but find it's actually ramen noodles, that's blatantly false advertisement and you have some recourse. No video game can be likewise misrepresented by its own publisher -- notice that any wording on video game packaging about its actual quality is almost always taken from a third party review.

 

[CoinOperatedBoy]

I think this about sums up the attitudes of so many people these days, especially younger people. So many believe they are entitled to everything these days without having to pay for it. It is stealing, plain and simple. It's black and white. No question.

Something not matching up to your expectations does not give you the right to steal it.

KT

Sorry to nitpick, Keith, but copyright infringement is definitively not stealing or theft. Different laws and all that. Otherwise, I agree with the sentiment of your post.

 

[AndroidVageta]

No, I would not like that, but I'm aware of software return policies and would accept that it was my responsibility to research the game properly ahead of time if no rental or demo were available.

Is downloading the game to try it out before you buy if no rental or demo available not considered "researching the game"? I know I know youll have something smart to say...but using your own words the topic of this thread perfectly coincides with your comment.

 

[SunnyD]

This thread is ridiculous...OMG HE DOWNLOADED A GAME THEN BOUGHT IT! HANG HIM!

Legal or not...if a published doesnt release a demo, I see NOTHING WRONG with downloading the game via bittorrent/IRC/Whatever to try it out first and if you like it you buy it.

THE PUBLISHER LOSES NOTHING IN THIS ACT! You people crying "Its illegal!" or "Its not right!" are hypocrites! Have you ever borrowed a game from a friend? Or SHIT...borrowed a cup of sugar or milk? OMG! YOU STOLE A CUP OF SUGAR FROM THE COMPANY THAT MADE IT CAUSE YOU DIDNT PAY FOR IT! Granted thats a bit of an extreme...but goddamn...you download a game to try it out...you like it you buy it...as its been said, this is NO different than borrowing a console game or book from someone.

I KNOW PIRATING IS NOT LEGAL! THIS IS OBVIOUS! But if you buy the game then you have done nothing wrong...whether its the law or not you would not be charged criminally by the United States court system if they arrested you for downloading a game then found out you bought the game the next day or so later...why? Because even they would realize that it would be complete stupid to do so...

OMG...some of the people in here with your big drawn out well written posts does nothing to make you point any more stronger or right/wrong...

dguy6789 I completely agree with you on this topic! 100%!

If it wasnt for piracy I would not have bought (recently I may add) Bad Company 2...Star Wars the Force Unleashed...STALKER Call of Pripyat...all pirated...all games I liked...all games bought legally.

Wow, really? Talk about comparing apples to oranges. Said cup of milk/sugar/friend's book/video game were already purchased and paid for. That's called right of first sale, and is protected by law (to an extent - bittorrenting it so that the rest of the "world" can "borrow" your copy is not a legitimate use of first sale).

This argument though is moot. It's illegal, according to the letter of the law. Your own morals can guide you in the mean time. The particular instance the OP is describing isn't worth a company's time or money to try to pursue.

But you have to consider the flip side, the title that you download, but don't purchase for whatever reason. Regardless of whether you enjoyed the title or not, you took what the developer/publisher/manufacturer put out there and used it. You used something that cost them money to produce, and intend to recoup that cost through sales.

Another analogy that has been used to death in this argument - are you going to walk into a movie theater, sit down for 20 minutes to watch a movie, walk out and pay for the ticket so you can watch the rest legally? No. You're not. The proprietor of the theater will happily call the police and have your ass removed and or charged.

Think rationally people. Just because the option is presented to you doesn't make it right.

 

[KeithTalent]

Sorry to nitpick, Keith, but copyright infringement is definitively not stealing or theft. Different laws and all that. Otherwise, I agree with the sentiment of your post.

Fair enough, but it's tantamount to the same thing and it still impacts in a similar way. I'm no lawyer of course, but I consider them to be very similar.

KT

 

[StinkyPinky]

To me it is both legally and morally wrong to pirate a game. Whether you buy it later is not really relevant. Most items you cannot "try before you buy" so to say that you have a right to pirate a game to see if you like it before buying does not make sense to me.

If you take (or use) something that is not yours without paying for it that is stealing, pure and simple. Whether you pay for it later is irrelevant.

I do get tired of developers complaining about piracy, but I would have to admit that piracy is probably one of the reasons fewer and fewer games are being made primarily or exclusively for the PC. So someone that pirates a game hurts not only the developers, but other PC gamers as well.

Most people that want a game will buy it. The ones that don't generally are in no positon to buy it anyway.

Plus there's also the people that pirate games they are only semi-interested in, and they would never have bought it in the first place. Therefore you can't count that as a lost sale.

I'm not saying sales aren't lost, but the lost sales are way less than these companies suggest.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

Morally, it's perfectly okay. It's BS that you have to buy a game at full price to try it and you can't return it or get a refund if you don't like it. Nothing wrong with trying before you buy as long as you buy it if you intend to keep it.

Playing devil's advocate here, that's what demos are for.

 

[Shmee]

wow, heated thread. Everyone here should just take a deep breath and try to get along

I personally agree with dguy, but cannot recommend anything that brakes a law for legal reasons. Still, morality and legality are separate issues.

I would like to do away with all this copyright BS, and allow file sharing. I am a believer in .communism in some aspects. But that is not the reality we live in. It is unfortunate in my opinion, but still the law.

So, please dont pirate guys, its illegal. Just try to get the law changed, and as Palpatine said, "..make it legal!"

Stay clean and respectful,
-Shmee

 

[KeithTalent]

Is downloading the game to try it out before you buy if no rental or demo available not considered "researching the game"? I know I know youll have something smart to say...but using your own words the topic of this thread perfectly coincides with your comment.

No it's not. The producers have the right to distribute their content as they please, you have the right to purchase or not, you do not have the right to steal it (infringe upon it, whatever).

Just because there is a vehicle in place to allow you to download things illegally does not make it ok. If there is no demo and no rental and you are hesitant, you do not purchase it. They lose the sale, but that's their choice.

KT

 

[Shmee]

Think rationally people. Just because the option is presented to you doesn't make it right.

again, legality and right/wrong/morality are separate issues. sry for dbl post.

 

[CoinOperatedBoy]

Actually, this is a perfectly valid defense. If this has, without my knowledge, become the defacto way, I live leave the country I am in promptly. Simply because something had been made into a law does not make it just or right. How many laws have been stricken from the books for being unjust? That is the RIGHT of every American, as far as I'm concerned. When that right is taken away, I will no longer consider myself an American.

Sorry, but in terms of the process and letter of the law, you're at least partially wrong. In criminal court, the task before the judge (and possibly jury) is to decide whether or not the defendant broke the law, full stop. However, it is true that jury nullification could impact the result if the jury believes the law is unjust. This is very muddy ground to tread and judges may deny or even punish jury nullification attempts.

Laws are overturned by state legislatures and the Supreme Court. Your right as an American is to pursue that process. Again, your rights do not permit you to break the law before it is repealed.

 

[Craig234]

First, I like farm animals. Really like them. That way.

Second, Poor Dguy. It sucks when people quote your post, removing any chance for a ninja-edit. I feel for you man...

Now, this'd be funnier if I could just get you to edit the original so it's a little plausible.

 

[SunnyD]

again, legality and right/wrong/morality are separate issues. sry for dbl post.

Exactly. The problem is we have people here that are using their morals to try to justify the legality of it.

The letter of the law says it's illegal. Period. What you do from there is your own moral issue. The OP's title says, and I quote:

What is the legality behind pirating and then buying a game?

Ergo, why is this even an argument?

 

[Magusigne]

This is true.

Legally it's still stealing..even if you downloaded it and played it 5 minutes before you unlocked the key from purchasing it online through steam.

Morally..who's to say but your own moral compass.

 

[CoinOperatedBoy]

Is downloading the game to try it out before you buy if no rental or demo available not considered "researching the game"? I know I know youll have something smart to say...but using your own words the topic of this thread perfectly coincides with your comment.

Wow, really clever trap. No, downloading a game is not valid "research". I'm talking about legal ways to learn about a game prior to buying it. The point is, you as the purchaser are bound by the law and the store's return policy, so it would be in your interest to make an informed decision, but not if that means committing a crime.

 

[ramj70]

Let's say a company advertises a game as the best game ever. I buy it because it's the best game ever. When I play it, I find out that it is in fact not the best game ever, and could even be considered a rather poor game. I spent my hard earned money on an expensive item that does nothing that it promises. I can't return it, I can't get my money back. Do you guys like having no way around this kind of problem? It is like a company selling a box that says it has bananas inside but I find out after I buy it that it is a box full of ramen noodles but can't return it.

Well if you bought the game because a company hyped the product as such then I would hope you would learn your lesson and not do it again. Of course I kind of have a feeling that you would not be the type to fall for type of advertising. Don't be sheeple and fall for merketing hype Then again someone might actually think it is the best game ever and got their monies worth

Now if you hyped a movie or game that you liked to someone and they bought that game or saw that movie and didn't like it, should you have to pay for that?

If your sole job was a game developer would you give your games away for free and hope people would pay for it because they liked it?