What is so bad about TN panel monitors?

[Captante]

Originally posted by: apoppin


for me it is not worth 3x the price

Can't argue with that ... everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Originally posted by: apoppin


-i want my CRT back

For gaming I agree with you but for everything else I prefer LCD's now that I'm used to them.

I've considered snagging a used 24-inch widescreen Trinitron, but I hate the idea of spending $100's on somthing with little/no warranty.

 

[Scotteq]

Originally posted by: Jax Omen
Scotteq, I only disagree with your point #4.

Not everyone watches movies in only one room. And implying that the computer is "for the kids to play on" is rather insulting. Besides, computers make fine DVD players.

Besides, buying a nice $700 monitor means I have no need to spend $1000+ on an HDTV. And I get way more benefit from the monitor than the TV could ever give me.

Point Taken And in all honestly, I'm not a movie buff and would be the one in the other room gaming instead of watching the movie, so... <grin>

A 24" monitor will do native 1080i/p - A good TN panel at that size is $3~400. Now, $700 for a monitor seems excessive to me - unless it was big/good enough to be viewed from across the room and replace the TV. So along those lines, I'm awaiting a card/monitor combination that'll allow for 60+ frames/sec on a 30", or larger, while gaming (refresh rate or better, basically), without having to go Crossfire/SLI to do it. (Driver issues, only works with this and not that... etc...) Not quite there yet, but when we are?? The TV is gone.

 

[Diogenes2]

Originally posted by: redlinez33

Originally posted by: Diogenes2
Are there any true 8 bit TN's ?
How can you tell ?

Not that I am aware of

My question would be is it even possible with this technology? Or do they make it 6bit only for price?

I can't seem to nail anything down, but my googling is turning up info that some modern PVA and MVA panels use 6-bit +FRC ( dithering ) to compete with lower response time of TN panels ..

So PVA and MVA is no guarantee of the color accuracy ( based on 8 bit processing ) so often touted for these panels.

There also seems to be information that there are 8-bit TNs out there, just nothing specific ..

I think the bottom line, is to find a panel that looks good for what you use it for..

 

[bfdd]

Originally posted by: Captante

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
I disagree Captante, there is no real downside, I bet TN panels are still the most common and most sold lcd monitors, and they are just fine for plenty of people. I could agree with people saying IPS ir VA panels being BETTER, but people saying TN panels suck aren't adding anything to the community save for some fud.

I never said newer TN panels suck but the old ones certainly did ... in fact I said almost exactly what you did, that they arn't as good as IPS/VA panels in terms of color accuracy or viewing angle (both facts, not FUD) which to me at least are certainly disadvantages. I'm sure if you looked hard enough you could scare up a few low quality VA or even IPS panels that would be overall inferior to the best TN's but that hardly means the TN-based panel is always better.

The only advantages 6-bit TN's have over any high-quality 8-bit IPS/VA's is faster response time & considerably lower price but thats NOT to say that people shouldn't still consider buying a quality TN-based LCD moniter, in fact quite the opposite as some are good values. I actually have a Samsung 2253BW 22 inch TN panel I snagged a couple weeks ago for my second PC & its not terrible (especially for the $278 I paid!) its just that compared to the BenQ FP241W sitting next to it it looks pretty crappy viewing photos or DVD's ... of course the M-PVA based BenQ cost over $700 so its not really a fair comparision.

Ya I just picked up the newer 24" Gateway with every connection you could want for $335. It's actually a pretty nice Panel even though it's TN has a glossy finish which I think makes it stand out a bit more.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Captante

Originally posted by: apoppin


for me it is not worth 3x the price

Can't argue with that ... everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Originally posted by: apoppin


-i want my CRT back

For gaming I agree with you but for everything else I prefer LCD's now that I'm used to them.

I've considered snagging a used 24-inch widescreen Trinitron, but I hate the idea of spending $100's on somthing with little/no warranty.

Me too .. actually .. we appear to be agreed .. i am just cheap
- but i certainly can see the difference .. i like LCDs that cost over $3K -
- unfortunately my pocketbook "says" $200

i have the same problem with everything .. i see micro stutter but it does not drive me nuts ..

actually i did consider entering a convent
:Q


. . . not to 'join' .. .. no worries

 

[Jax Omen]

Originally posted by: Scotteq

Originally posted by: Jax Omen
Scotteq, I only disagree with your point #4.

Not everyone watches movies in only one room. And implying that the computer is "for the kids to play on" is rather insulting. Besides, computers make fine DVD players.

Besides, buying a nice $700 monitor means I have no need to spend $1000+ on an HDTV. And I get way more benefit from the monitor than the TV could ever give me.

Point Taken And in all honestly, I'm not a movie buff and would be the one in the other room gaming instead of watching the movie, so... <grin>

A 24" monitor will do native 1080i/p - A good TN panel at that size is $3~400. Now, $700 for a monitor seems excessive to me - unless it was big/good enough to be viewed from across the room and replace the TV. So along those lines, I'm awaiting a card/monitor combination that'll allow for 60+ frames/sec on a 30", or larger, while gaming (refresh rate or better, basically), without having to go Crossfire/SLI to do it. (Driver issues, only works with this and not that... etc...) Not quite there yet, but when we are?? The TV is gone.

Well, it's a 25.5" monitor, not a 24", and we're only watching it from 6' away (at most). It's quite adequate. Hell, our TV in the living room is only a 27" SDTV.

And yeah, not a movie buff either, I mostly game

 

[kmmatney]

I use a 28" 1920 x 1200 TN panel at work everyday, and its great. I thought that viewing angles would be a problem, but it's not an issue at all, even on a display that large. In fact, I really didn't believe it was a TN display at first. So they have gotten better.

At home I have 4 TN displays (Viewsonic x 2, Acer, and BenQ), and my S-PVA Soyo. To my eyes, the biggest difference is the superior contrast on the Soyo, compared to my TN displays. Games just look more vinrant (less washed-out) on the Soyo. On their own, the TN panels are OK, but the are not as good if your directly compare them side-by-side to a non-TN display.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: Jumpem
Is it just something that overly anal people notice?

pretty much.

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: panfist

Originally posted by: vhx
They generally have fewer inputs as well.

This is a completely untrue blanket statement. You're absolutely right about the viewing angles. Specifically, they have very bad vertical viewing angles. If you are looking at the monitor dead on, head height and straight, it's so bad that the top and bottom will be distorted, unless you're viewing from more than about 3 feet away.

"Generalizations are generally true" - Me

This is a blanket statement and it makes perfect sense. TN panels are CHEAPER and BUDGET. He said GENERALLY have fewer inputs not ALWAYS have fewer inputs...

The reason they would have fewer inputs is that they are cheap budget models, it has NOTHING to do with them being TN or not. You CAN buy a TN monitor with lots of inputs if you need lots of inputs but are not willing to pay extra for a higher quality panel.

 

[panfist]

Originally posted by: taltamir

Originally posted by: panfist

Originally posted by: vhx
They generally have fewer inputs as well.

This is a completely untrue blanket statement. You're absolutely right about the viewing angles. Specifically, they have very bad vertical viewing angles. If you are looking at the monitor dead on, head height and straight, it's so bad that the top and bottom will be distorted, unless you're viewing from more than about 3 feet away.

"Generalizations are generally true" - Me

This is a blanket statement and it makes perfect sense. TN panels are CHEAPER and BUDGET. He said GENERALLY have fewer inputs not ALWAYS have fewer inputs...

The reason they would have fewer inputs is that they are cheap budget models, it has NOTHING to do with them being TN or not. You CAN buy a TN monitor with lots of inputs if you need lots of inputs but are not willing to pay extra for a higher quality panel.

Yeah, that's why my cheap and budget TN has inputs for composite, component, s-video, vga and dvi. The only thing it's missing is hdmi, which who cares for a cable to carry sound to your monitor, not mention it's drm-handicapped. I spent $200 on this 22" westy in 2006.

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: panfist

Originally posted by: taltamir

Originally posted by: panfist

Originally posted by: vhx
They generally have fewer inputs as well.

This is a completely untrue blanket statement. You're absolutely right about the viewing angles. Specifically, they have very bad vertical viewing angles. If you are looking at the monitor dead on, head height and straight, it's so bad that the top and bottom will be distorted, unless you're viewing from more than about 3 feet away.

"Generalizations are generally true" - Me

This is a blanket statement and it makes perfect sense. TN panels are CHEAPER and BUDGET. He said GENERALLY have fewer inputs not ALWAYS have fewer inputs...

The reason they would have fewer inputs is that they are cheap budget models, it has NOTHING to do with them being TN or not. You CAN buy a TN monitor with lots of inputs if you need lots of inputs but are not willing to pay extra for a higher quality panel.

Yeah, that's why my cheap and budget TN has inputs for composite, component, s-video, vga and dvi. The only thing it's missing is hdmi, which who cares for a cable to carry sound to your monitor, not mention it's drm-handicapped. I spent $200 on this 22" westy in 2006.

as I said... there are EXCEPTIONS... your cheap and budget monitor has many connectors. Congratulations, its the exception. Most cheap and budget models have a dvi and a vga input and that is it.

The fact that exceptions exist doesn't make the generalization any less true. Only if the majority of budget TN models had extra plugs would the generalization be false.

The key here, is that it is incidental that TN models often have less plugs, it isn't because of them being TN, its because of them being cheap. Thus this is a non issue.

 

[mindless1]

TN if you're on a budget and/or value size more than contrast and viewing angle.

 

[lightstar]

my son swears by our Benq FP202W for gaming/WoW. . . .i prefer the Samsung 226BW- everything looks really smooth & the colors are rich & vibrant- can't imagine anything better. . . .may try out an S-IPS panel for our next build or just get another 226BW to play it safe.

 

[Texun]

My experience: With my Samsung 2232BW there is a difference in color quality compared to my Dell 20 IPS but it's not huge. I probably wouldn't have noticed it if I had never used an IPS monitor before. As far as the viewing angle... I don't see the problem. I sit either straight on or maybe 20 degrees off center and never notice any fading issues, but if I position myself below the monitor, which is what I sometimes do when I am on the floor working on the PC, the difference is very noticeable. Left to right is no problem but up or down from center will start to suck pretty quickly. The only complaint I have with mine is input lag, but that has more to do with the design of the monitor and not so much the TN panel. As mentioned above, I have the Samsung 22 and a Dell 20 and have since placed the Dell on my second PC. I traded the very minimal color difference for the wide screen. I wish someone would make a 22" IPS.

 

[richwenzel]

darks, blacks, and low light level detail is much better in CRTs than digitals (LCD, LCOS, DILA, DLP)...

what digital displays do to convince your eye it is seeing black is a LIE, a horrible horrible LIE, up there with yes honey, you are the most attractive woman I have ever seen.

having said that i am very happy with my chimei, but i did love my viewsonic 21 crt...

 

[DaQuteness]

I have a Samsung 2032BW, yes, it's a TN panel for sure, but as far as i can see, i picked it out of 43 other monitors, including 30" ones. Those seemed a bit too big for me. I didn't want the bigger 2232BW since it had the same 1680x1050... same rez + bigger surface = pixels (which i hate)

As far as i can see, and i have a very sharp eye when it comes to colours since i'm a fotographer, this LCD panel won't shift colours unless you go under the desk or standing straight at 2 feet away from it, side angles aren't much of a problem since it's sitting in a corner. Colours, yea, that can be a bummer, it's not as pronounced for many people to notice but if you are careful, you can see a small border between some colours... 6 bit it is then (Use a calibrator to repair some color reproduction mistakes)

Indeed i have seen some great LCD panels, but at 22" had 1920x1200 and i simply couldn't afford at that time but provided i had enough money, it would have been obvious. You don't pay 5-600Euros unless you're sure of what you're buying and i could bet that wasn't a TN. Anything but that one...

But i'm pleased with it... at least for now.