What is a LIVING WAGE? Representative Katie Porter Stumps JPMorgan Chase’s CEO with question about his own employee's salary

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BurnItDwn

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
26,351
1,860
126
1600 rent on 30K a year is completely broken and unsustainable.

On one hand, wages have stagnated for decades relative to inflation.
On the other hand, rents have increased for decades relative to inflation.
https://www.apartmentlist.com/rentonomics/rent-growth-since-1960/

Any single parent will be at a pretty strong disadvantage, often their partner will go to jail or flee the country to avoid paying their share of the child rearing expenses.
 
Feb 4, 2009
35,862
17,403
136
We need some method of divesting housing from large investors. That is one of the big problems. These companies drive up housing bubbles, when the bubble pops they gobble up all foreclosures, sit on them to drive the price up, then do it all again.

Then the price of the property would rise.
Investors tend to pay the lowest price possible.
Housing is a tough nut to crack since there are so many parts to it. Every winner equals another loser. There is finite land and it’s not possible to create more on a large scale.

Only possible solution is large scale government housing like communist countries have tried but they end up with the same result as we did with rent control. Tons of shitty properties that aren’t maintained well because they are forced to operate under market value.
No one simple answer will fix housing. Multiple long term solutions will help.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
25,993
12,252
136
We need some method of divesting housing from large investors. That is one of the big problems. These companies drive up housing bubbles, when the bubble pops they gobble up all foreclosures, sit on them to drive the price up, then do it all again.
You know something is wrong when you see incredible statistics on the number of houses that were bought outright in cash over the last few years. It's good to be the king. This may all backfire on them when they can't sell the things to people who have no scratch for a down payment, or qualify for the loans. I guess we will have to have another financial meltdown so they can come up smelling like roses again.
 
Feb 4, 2009
35,862
17,403
136
You know something is wrong when you see incredible statistics on the number of houses that were bought outright in cash over the last few years. It's good to be the king.

I know however it’s a two sided coin. You list your house for sale you have two offers
One cash right now, move out when you are ready
One credit larger amount but they need to sell their home and maybe they’ll be able to buy in 8 weeks, bank wants an inspection and a bank appraisal that won’t happen for 6 weeks minimum. Any failures can lead to the deal collapsing it’s a VA Loan so you’ll have to fix any safety issues.

Which one would you choose.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
25,993
12,252
136
I know however it’s a two sided coin. You list your house for sale you have two offers
One cash right now, move out when you are ready
One credit larger amount but they need to sell their home and maybe they’ll be able to buy in 8 weeks, bank wants an inspection and a bank appraisal that won’t happen for 6 weeks minimum. Any failures can lead to the deal collapsing it’s a VA Loan so you’ll have to fix any safety issues.

Which one would you choose.
Obviously the cash offer. The point was that in spite of the economic down turn that most of us suffered, there were also many people loaded with cash waiting for the kill.
 

skull

Platinum Member
Jun 5, 2000
2,209
327
126
My min payments on an '07 Tundra are 300, not counting insurance. I took a short term loan so I didn't get screwed on the interest payments. When late 00's cost $15k you gotta pay for it somehow.

I got my 06 saturn for $3500 6 years ago, 15k is ridiculous and way more than someone under budget constraints should be paying. A 3 year loan at 5% on it would been $105/month.
 

Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
15,938
11,092
136
I got my 06 saturn for $3500 6 years ago, 15k is ridiculous and way more than someone under budget constraints should be paying. A 3 year loan at 5% on it would been $105/month.

Except in NYC the insurance alone will be like 200 a month minimum on a stinker, probably 400+ on a decent 2-5 year old vehicle.

Probably same for California except that in CA, she probably can't take the subway to work.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
25,993
12,252
136
Except in NYC the insurance alone will be like 200 a month minimum on a stinker, probably 400+ on a decent 2-5 year old vehicle.

Probably same for California except that in CA, she probably can't take the subway to work.
Ouch.! Lived in Anaheim and never paid anything close to that.
 

skull

Platinum Member
Jun 5, 2000
2,209
327
126
Except in NYC the insurance alone will be like 200 a month minimum on a stinker, probably 400+ on a decent 2-5 year old vehicle.

Probably same for California except that in CA, she probably can't take the subway to work.

Y'all should start moving away so the prices come down from crazy land, I only pay $50/month, which I need to shop around on should be able to get it cheaper than that.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
17,363
16,634
146
I got my 06 saturn for $3500 6 years ago, 15k is ridiculous and way more than someone under budget constraints should be paying. A 3 year loan at 5% on it would been $105/month.
My insurance is pretty cheap (USAA, part time vehicle). I needed a no-shit 4wd truck for winter driving, as my other vehicle is a rwd sports car, and I was getting tired of almost dying for 4-6mo out of the year. Trucks up here go for 10k, even when they're rusted husks that you can't even put on a lift without breaking in half, so 15k for one with very seriously no rust was a bargain.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,698
10,006
136
D30A0GYX4AAKeeV

Curious.
The "example" is underwater by $644 per month. With costs demonstrated as $3,069.00 VS an income of $2,425.00 a month. That's huge. And who the !@#$ only has $100 in utilities? Hello, electric bill anyone?

So... how does my plan address this scenario?

Basic Income would be fully funded by a 25% tax. Let us assume you'll need some other taxation on top of that. I'll round it off at around 33% taxation on her income. Her monthly income shoots up to $2,958.08. Better, but she'll still be in the hole by $111/mo. That is where the second and third aspects of my plan come into play. For housing. My UBI pays into a nest egg for all children. At age 18 they'll have access to $216,000 in savings. A couple would have $432,000. I think that'd cover the price of the apartment, in cash. Out here in Alabama you'd have a high end McMansion.

My plan aims to cut out (or greatly reduce) house payments. If it was eliminated, then this parent would not be paying $1,600/mo. She'd have a net savings of $1,489/mo. But that's going to occur for new couples 18 years after UBI is implemented. What about the short term, what about tomorrow? Federal Housing Loan program. FHL takes over as the lender, and landlord. You "pay" them for your "rent". A chunk of UBI is taken out and applies to to your home. Let's say FHL would charge her $330/mo. That's less than the original $1,600/mo, with a net savings of $1,159/mo.

My economic plan saves these people.

Current:
ubi without.png

With UBI and FHL:
ubi with.png
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
17,363
16,634
146
Curious.
The "example" is underwater by $644 per month. With costs demonstrated as $3,069.00 VS an income of $2,425.00 a month. That's huge. And who the !@#$ only has $100 in utilities? Hello, electric bill anyone?

So... how does my plan address this scenario?

Basic Income would be fully funded by a 25% tax. Let us assume you'll need some other taxation on top of that. I'll round it off at around 33% taxation on her income. Her monthly income shoots up to $2,958.08. Better, but she'll still be in the hole by $111/mo. That is where the second and third aspects of my plan come into play. For housing. My UBI pays into a nest egg for all children. At age 18 they'll have access to $216,000 in savings. A couple would have $432,000. I think that'd cover the price of the apartment, in cash. Out here in Alabama you'd have a high end McMansion.

My plan aims to cut out (or greatly reduce) house payments. If it was eliminated, then this parent would not be paying $1,600/mo. She'd have a net savings of $1,489/mo. But that's going to occur for new couples 18 years after UBI is implemented. What about the short term, what about tomorrow? Federal Housing Loan program. FHL takes over as the lender, and landlord. You "pay" them for your "rent". A chunk of UBI is taken out and applies to to your home. Let's say FHL would charge her $330/mo. That's less than the original $1,600/mo, with a net savings of $1,159/mo.

My economic plan saves these people.

Current:
View attachment 5255

With UBI and FHL:
View attachment 5256
The fun part is when rent goes up by $1000 because everyone knows everyone is getting paid more.
 
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hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
25,993
12,252
136
My insurance is pretty cheap (USAA, part time vehicle). I needed a no-shit 4wd truck for winter driving, as my other vehicle is a rwd sports car, and I was getting tired of almost dying for 4-6mo out of the year. Trucks up here go for 10k, even when they're rusted husks that you can't even put on a lift without breaking in half, so 15k for one with very seriously no rust was a bargain.
Ridiculous prices on used trucks seems to be a national phenomena.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
17,363
16,634
146
Ridiculous prices on used trucks seems to be a national phenomena.
It is, used or new it's outrageous. In retrospect I should have actually just found a truck sight-unseen down south, flown down, and driven up. Would have been cheaper I imagine.
 

skull

Platinum Member
Jun 5, 2000
2,209
327
126
My insurance is pretty cheap (USAA, part time vehicle). I needed a no-shit 4wd truck for winter driving, as my other vehicle is a rwd sports car, and I was getting tired of almost dying for 4-6mo out of the year. Trucks up here go for 10k, even when they're rusted husks that you can't even put on a lift without breaking in half, so 15k for one with very seriously no rust was a bargain.

A single mom in california doesn't need a truck to get around in the snow...

Still ridiculous I'm in the midwest last truck I bought was before my saturn in early 13. I got an 05 for 4750, luckily real trucks for work don't cost what grocery getter trucks cost. I know how to drive don't need 4 x 4.
 

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
14,927
3,904
136
Y'all should start moving away so the prices come down from crazy land, I only pay $50/month, which I need to shop around on should be able to get it cheaper than that.

I love how in threads like this someone always throws out helpful tips like moving to East Crapville, Arkansas where everyone works at either the dollar store or the truck stop.
 

skull

Platinum Member
Jun 5, 2000
2,209
327
126
I love how in threads like this someone always throws out helpful tips like moving to East Crapville, Arkansas where everyone works at either the dollar store or the truck stop.

Interesting guess the major metroplitan area with a LCOL in the midwest that I live in doesn't exist.
 

Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
15,938
11,092
136
Y'all should start moving away so the prices come down from crazy land, I only pay $50/month, which I need to shop around on should be able to get it cheaper than that.

You don't understand..

People move where they can find jobs, not where they can find lower insurance costs. That's why small towns in America are dying.

And I like where I live.. This is how far is everything from me.. (home and work via subway)

Bus 0.5 blocks.
Bank 1.5 blocks.
Train 2 blocks.
Supermarket 3.5 blocks.
Central Park 4 blocks.
Doctor 6 blocks.
University 8 blocks.
Hospital 13 blocks.

Total mileage on car last year 353 miles.

Fuck the 40 mile round trip commutes.

And it's much easier to get a job here. Just the cost of living is insane. Hell people are sometimes paying $22k property taxes on a 3500 square feet but it's worth it to have this kind of life.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,698
10,006
136
The fun part is when rent goes up by $1000 because everyone knows everyone is getting paid more.

Don't forget $100 loafs of bread. Why? Just because.
That's how it works, right?

You forgot, of course, that I spoke of a Federal Home Loan program where the goal isn't profit or to rip people off. Its entire purpose is to actually keep people in homes with budget neutral costs over the long term. Charging no more than is needed. Granted, I do not know 100% certain what the minimum price would have to be, especially not for every scenario out there, and some may be more expensive than others. But no way in hell does that 1 bedroom need to cost $1,600/mo in order to recoup costs. That's price gouging and it's time we stepped in to keep housing affordable.
 

Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
15,938
11,092
136
Interesting guess the major metroplitan area with a LCOL in the midwest that I live in doesn't exist.

That LCOL will go up real fast with $5 a gallon gas since everything gets more expensive to have shipped up there.

But if America transitions to wind energy and electric vehicles (hard to do reasonably fast).. then it won't matter what the price of gas is.
 

skull

Platinum Member
Jun 5, 2000
2,209
327
126
You don't understand..

People move where they can find jobs, not where they can find lower insurance costs. That's why small towns in America are dying.

And I like where I live.. This is how far is everything from me.. (home and work via subway)

Bus 0.5 blocks.
Bank 1.5 blocks.
Train 2 blocks.
Supermarket 3.5 blocks.
Central Park 4 blocks.
Doctor 6 blocks.
University 8 blocks.
Hospital 13 blocks.

Total mileage on car last year 353 miles.

Fuck the 40 mile round trip commutes.

And it's much easier to get a job here. Just the cost of living is insane. Hell people are sometimes paying $22k property taxes on a 3500 square feet but it's worth it to have this kind of life.

My towns in the top 30 largest metropolitan areas of the united states My stats aren't very far off from your minus the train. I only put a few k mikes on my car a year. No problems getting a job around here either.
 

skull

Platinum Member
Jun 5, 2000
2,209
327
126
That LCOL will go up real fast with $5 a gallon gas since everything gets more expensive to have shipped up there.

But if America transitions to wind energy and electric vehicles (hard to do reasonably fast).. then it won't matter what the price of gas is.

Says the guy whos gas costs more than mine.
 

Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
15,938
11,092
136
Says the guy whos gas costs more than mine.

Last time I filled up it was $2.61 for silver. Its higher now due to Trump closing off Venezuelan imports to topple Maduro whatever good that does..

What I don't understand is why are we importing/ exporting to other countries instead of self sustaining? Wouldn't it be much better to use domestic gasoline?
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,698
10,006
136
Last time I filled up it was $2.61 for silver. Its higher now due to Trump closing off Venezuelan imports to topple Maduro whatever good that does..

What I don't understand is why are we importing/ exporting to other countries instead of self sustaining? Wouldn't it be much better to use domestic gasoline?

Because the United States does not "own" its oil, our mega corps do. And they probably exist for profit, not for United States self interests. Ergo, "our" oil is on the global market, sold to whoever is willing to pay the highest price for it. Suppose that buyer is not always local.
 
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