What is a LIVING WAGE? Representative Katie Porter Stumps JPMorgan Chase’s CEO with question about his own employee's salary

[soulcougher73]

Like the Star Trek economy where the benevolent Federation takes care of everything and everyone works for the common good?
My guess is half those folks would be "cling on's".

Yes that would be nice, and nice play on words also

 

[SMOGZINN]

Why do companies need to solve the problem of poor governance?

Because for the large part they create the poor governance. Let's face it for the last 40 years or so corporations basically run the government. Nothing that they are strongly against happens, and anything they are strongly for passed. Just look what happened with Net Neutrality.

 

[dainthomas]

First, your last sentiment. Power over people. What sort of power do the recipients of wage slavery enjoy?

I adhere to the "no strings attached" UBI model. Essentially it is Libertarianism with a safety net. People, who are otherwise powerless, become empowered by the benefit of receiving the basic necessities WITHOUT the need to beg for the first job not to reject them. For the first time in their lives they'd be able to CHOOSE their employment and spend the time seeking a career path of their... choice. Imagine that today, a person living month to month walking away from a job. They'll either suffer hungry and homeless, or be dependent on someone. Their "power" is already in someone else's hands, mine is a method to FREE them from that.

"Robin Hood model"? The Unites States budget IS ALREADY $4 trillion. That sum is more than the cost of Basic Income. Taxation and "wealth redistribution" already exist today. This is no dramatic increase over that, but a sizeable reallocation of many existing programs. In ways that'd benefit everyone.

Your fallacy is your anti government mantra. As if each man is an island unto himself. That's complete and utter BS. You LIVE in a society. There are no islands, no unclaimed lands for you to go run away to and hide in. Everything already belongs to someone else. Unless you intend to be a thief you will not be taking anything for yourself that you do not earn and pay for. Currency, and how did you imagine obtaining money? Do you print it yourself? Do you grow it from your bootstraps? Or does someone with POWER over you decide to pay you money?

Your concept of independence from government is a lie. You are dependent on society. The question is, what kind of society are we? One with wage slavery, people paid so little that they're impoverished and destitute as they are today? Or should we be a society like the Baby Boomers enjoyed growing up, with enough wealth in the hands of people that one parent could work a minimal job and still provide for their family?

UBI takes us further down that path of restoring wealth to American workers, and given the goal of eliminating or greatly reducing house payments, these programs (combined) essentially pay for themselves amongst the lower class. Of which a majority of people reside. A single income of $35k is taxed much higher at 33%, but as demonstrated they still gain a benefit of higher monthly income, and a net gain of $1,803/mo over their current situation.

Go ahead, tell us a more wealthy American people are "less free". I know you've been fed propaganda your entire life, conditioned to think government = bad, helping people = bad. But stop to think for yourself for just a moment. Look at what has been stolen from American workers. That gap is how much ground they've lost in a generation. How much freedom do a starving people have? If you would but open your eyes, you can help free them by helping us restore their wealth.

Another thing holding people at jobs, or keeping them from starting their own business, is healthcare coverage. Universal coverage would have a lot of the same effects as UBI (which I also support).

 

[Starbuck1975]

Because for the large part they create the poor governance. Let's face it for the last 40 years or so corporations basically run the government. Nothing that they are strongly against happens, and anything they are strongly for passed. Just look what happened with Net Neutrality.

The blame for that falls on consumers and voters. When is the last time that consumers truly held a corporation accountable with their wallets?

 

[Jaskalas]

Another thing holding people at jobs, or keeping them from starting their own business, is healthcare coverage. Universal coverage would have a lot of the same effects as UBI (which I also support).

We need to understand that both UBI and Medicare are going to cost a lot of money. (Trillions in taxes for each one) But for UBI and FHL my plan provides an immediate, monthly, return on investment. Those higher taxes are directly returned. By comparison, I have gone over 12 years without health insurance. If you target healthcare first, that means a higher tax tomorrow for a benefit I may or may not ever use.

That's the trick. Not only do we have to convince people that Medicare is just a larger, better, insurance pool. That it actually works. You also have to convince them that healthcare will ever benefit them. While many are still under the spell from 2009, where Republicans screamed bloody murder over the concept. There's still a lot of delusion over how people don't need healthcare. Of how "other" people need it, but "I" don't. And they need to be convinced to pay for it.

That's a real hard sell if they still worry about food and housing. I fear that Democrats, making a big push on Healthcare, maybe putting the cart before the horse. I fear what happens if we do not win the battle over basic things before moving onto something much more complex and difficult to understand.

 

[Brainonska511]

The blame for that falls on consumers and voters. When is the last time that consumers truly held a corporation accountable with their wallets?

That might work for some industries, but good luck holding something like your internet provider accountable with your wallet. Most of the time, you're left with a Hobson choice: take crappy service or have no service. That's not a real choice if you want to participate in current society.

 

[dainthomas]

We need to understand that both UBI and Medicare are going to cost a lot of money. (Trillions in taxes for each one) But for UBI and FHL my plan provides an immediate, monthly, return on investment. Those higher taxes are directly returned. By comparison, I have gone over 12 years without health insurance. If you target healthcare first, that means a higher tax tomorrow for a benefit I may or may not ever use.

That's the trick. Not only do we have to convince people that Medicare is just a larger, better, insurance pool. That it actually works. You also have to convince them that healthcare will ever benefit them. While many are still under the spell from 2009, where Republicans screamed bloody murder over the concept. There's still a lot of delusion over how people don't need healthcare. Of how "other" people need it, but "I" don't. And they need to be convinced to pay for it.

That's a real hard sell if they still worry about food and housing. I fear that Democrats, making a big push on Healthcare, maybe putting the cart before the horse. I fear what happens if we do not win the battle over basic things before moving onto something much more complex and difficult to understand.

I've heard that argument. The thing is, the United States already has a health care bill. If you add up taxes on Medicare and Medicaid, copays/deductibles/premiums etc, each person pays far more than people in any other country. Someone needs to articulate that. If you simplify everything and group everybody into one pool, you will definitely pay far less overall.

And unless someone is completely healthy until the day they get hit by a bus or eaten by a shark, they will need healthcare at some point.

 

[homebrew2ny]

I always raise an eyebrow when this topic comes up because so many variables come in to play. If I wanted to live in the cheapest area in the poorest community and eat the cheapest food, while having modest things, one could get by on $300 +/- weekly....

However, if you want something a bit nicer, perhaps a yard, good schools, and a few of the finer things in life, one would need to earn $800 to $1000 weekly.

It's my opinion that to chase what once was considered "the American dream", one would need $2000 +/- weekly to accomplish that.

Of course these are all take home figures as well... Just my 2 from the view of upstate NY...

 

[Indus]

I always raise an eyebrow when this topic comes up because so many variables come in to play. If I wanted to live in the cheapest area in the poorest community and eat the cheapest food, while having modest things, one could get by on $300 +/- weekly....

However, if you want something a bit nicer, perhaps a yard, good schools, and a few of the finer things in life, one would need to earn $800 to $1000 weekly.

It's my opinion that to chase what once was considered "the American dream", one would need $2000 +/- weekly to accomplish that.

Of course these are all take home figures as well... Just my 2 from the view of upstate NY...

Costs more than that here in the boroughs of NYC.

 

[Paladin3]

These elites aren't clueless.. they just don't care about everyday Americans!

The shitty part is they've convinced many everyday Americans to not care about everyday Americans.

 

[Mai72]

The shitty part is they've convinced many everyday Americans to not care about everyday Americans.

I don't think that's it. I just think many Americans are so stressed with living in the 21st century. Work, child care, elderly care, home/car payments, trying to fund their own retirement, health care, etc. It's so hard to worry about anyone else. You just don't have the stamina. Plus, lets get real. Many people are ego driven. They only care about themselves. Many think the universe revolves around their petty lives.

 

[ivwshane]

Could Congress pass a law that requires all employers to pay their employees (and contractors based on hours worked) for a day off while making the work week four days instead of five?

 

[BurnItDwn]

The blame for that falls on consumers and voters. When is the last time that consumers truly held a corporation accountable with their wallets?

Voters are kept ignorant by the 24 hour propaganda "news" corporations.
You keep repeating a lie to somebody and eventually, they might believe it. That is basic psychology/human nature.

Holding corporations accountable only works when you have an open market with lots of competition.

All the market concentration caused by mergers and acquisitions over the last generation have eliminated a lot of competition and what we have in many markets are monopolies or duopolies.

If you want consumers to hold corporations accountable with their wallets, then corporations need to be split up so that no individual corporation can control too big a piece of the market, or have their hands in too many different market segments.

If you break up the corporations however, they may have a VERY difficult time competing against foreign corporations which are allowed to grow to unlimited size.

 

[ivwshane]

Voters are kept ignorant by the 24 hour propaganda "news" corporations.
You keep repeating a lie to somebody and eventually, they might believe it. That is basic psychology/human nature.

Holding corporations accountable only works when you have an open market with lots of competition.

All the market concentration caused by mergers and acquisitions over the last generation have eliminated a lot of competition and what we have in many markets are monopolies or duopolies.

If you want consumers to hold corporations accountable with their wallets, then corporations need to be split up so that no individual corporation can control too big a piece of the market, or have their hands in too many different market segments.

If you break up the corporations however, they may have a VERY difficult time competing against foreign corporations which are allowed to grow to unlimited size.

Some people think that a check on corporations comes from the consumers but history says they are wrong. The government is the check on businesses. Consumers only tell companies what to offer and sometimes how much but they rarely have enough influence and power to dictate much else.

The reason, as you pointed out, is because competition is always consolidated or eliminated in laissez faire capitalism.

If government eliminated the possibility of consolidation and the ability for companies to control different aspects in the production chain, then maybe a free capitalist system could work.

 

[skull]

I always raise an eyebrow when this topic comes up because so many variables come in to play. If I wanted to live in the cheapest area in the poorest community and eat the cheapest food, while having modest things, one could get by on $300 +/- weekly....

However, if you want something a bit nicer, perhaps a yard, good schools, and a few of the finer things in life, one would need to earn $800 to $1000 weekly.

It's my opinion that to chase what once was considered "the American dream", one would need $2000 +/- weekly to accomplish that.

Of course these are all take home figures as well... Just my 2 from the view of upstate NY...

These threads always gnaw at me because I pulled my self out of the gutter and built something from it. Every ones always talking about pulling yourself up by your boot straps like its a joke, I know it isn't because I did it.

I still live cheap but not as cheap as I did at one point. These days I get by on about $350/week actually live in a decent neighborhood with a yard, schools aint the greatest but I don't have kids, I eat great, have health insurance and have modest things because I don't need any better. I've already hit the american dream as far as I'm concerned. Stay socking away my excess income and investing it in myself. As I grew my income sure I could of went out like my peers and bought a brand new car and a fancier house. Then I'd be like them living pay check to pay check and wouldn't have a growing business and money ready to invest in my next adventure.

The skills to fix up the shitty house on the nice street and keep the vehicles running helps. They came self taught though, you just gotta have some drive which is lacking in a majority of americans.

 

[Indus]

These threads always gnaw at me because I pulled my self out of the gutter and built something from it. Every ones always talking about pulling yourself up by your boot straps like its a joke, I know it isn't because I did it.

I still live cheap but not as cheap as I did at one point. These days I get by on about $350/week actually live in a decent neighborhood with a yard, schools aint the greatest but I don't have kids, I eat great, have health insurance and have modest things because I don't need any better. I've already hit the american dream as far as I'm concerned. Stay socking away my excess income and investing it in myself. As I grew my income sure I could of went out like my peers and bought a brand new car and a fancier house. Then I'd be like them living pay check to pay check and wouldn't have a growing business and money ready to invest in my next adventure.

The skills to fix up the shitty house on the nice street and keep the vehicles running helps. They came self taught though, you just gotta have some drive which is lacking in a majority of americans.

Yeah I learned something the hard way.. the moment you get a live in girlfriend, your expenses triple. That is before marriage and kids and all that.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Self determination is important however, opportunity, timing and, yes, luck also play critical roles.

 

[jackstar7]

Like the Star Trek economy where the benevolent Federation takes care of everything and everyone works for the common good?
My guess is half those folks would be "cling on's".

Serious question: What do you care if they are?

How do you imagine you would be affected by that?

 

[Starbuck1975]

Voters are kept ignorant by the 24 hour propaganda "news" corporations.
You keep repeating a lie to somebody and eventually, they might believe it. That is basic psychology/human nature.

I would counter its more our materialistic society, pop culture influences, social media and reality star “values”.

Holding corporations accountable only works when you have an open market with lots of competition.

Agreed

All the market concentration caused by mergers and acquisitions over the last generation have eliminated a lot of competition and what we have in many markets are monopolies or duopolies.

Shareholder value! I think we need to break up quite a few monopolies. Not many candidates run on that as part of their platform.

If you want consumers to hold corporations accountable with their wallets, then corporations need to be split up so that no individual corporation can control too big a piece of the market, or have their hands in too many different market segments.

If you break up the corporations however, they may have a VERY difficult time competing against foreign corporations which are allowed to grow to unlimited size.

Our fault for offshoring our souls

 

[Jaskalas]

And unless someone is completely healthy until the day they get hit by a bus or eaten by a shark, they will need healthcare at some point.

Starting in 2010, immediately following the Affordable Care Act, Republicans won large victories on that very issue. They convinced people that they do not need to pay for healthcare. That a government tax to provide it is evil. I wonder if those delusions and fear mongering do not still hold true in the hearts of many.

It could make a difference if we first sold them on the idea of Basic Income and Housing security. So that they can look at the cost of paying for healthcare and not wonder if that tax is going to rob them of vital necessities that they cannot live without. What I am saying is, our people may believe they are too poor to afford healthcare. And damn if they aren't correct on that point.

I think we need to first address and secure the fundamentals. We need it all, but first things first.

 

[Jaskalas]

I always raise an eyebrow when this topic comes up because so many variables come in to play. If I wanted to live in the cheapest area in the poorest community and eat the cheapest food, while having modest things, one could get by on $300 +/- weekly....

However, if you want something a bit nicer, perhaps a yard, good schools, and a few of the finer things in life, one would need to earn $800 to $1000 weekly.

It's my opinion that to chase what once was considered "the American dream", one would need $2000 +/- weekly to accomplish that.

Of course these are all take home figures as well... Just my 2 from the view of upstate NY...

Please review the OP, and the idea of a person living in Irvine, CA today. They are over $644 in the hole every month. A change in policy could swing that by as much as $1,803/mo, giving them $1,159/mo net savings. That's a Basic Income of $1,000/mo combined with more affordable housing. Even after the increased tax to pay for it. A key component of helping Americans is in tackling the cost of housing.

When we approach it from different angles, there is much we can accomplish within reason.

Current:

With UBI and FHL:

 

[skull]

Yeah I learned something the hard way.. the moment you get a live in girlfriend, your expenses triple. That is before marriage and kids and all that.

The moment a chick trys to bring me down she hits the road.

Self determination is important however, opportunity, timing and, yes, luck also play critical roles.

Keep telling your self that, making excuses is easy.

 

[skull]

I love how I have one you thats so against hard work they down vote my post and can't even be bothered to type up a reply.

 

[darkswordsman17]

I love how I have one you thats so against hard work they down vote my post and can't even be bothered to type up a reply.

Clearly, you made a whole post whining about it.

 

[SMOGZINN]

These threads always gnaw at me because I pulled my self out of the gutter and built something from it.

If this is a true story, and I have no reason to believe it is not, you got stupidly lucky.
For every one of your story there is like 10,000,000 others that did not get that lucky. You think it was your hard work that accomplished this, but you are wrong. The hard work was nothing but a prerequisite for it, the real accomplishment was the blind luck that allowed you to do all this. We can know this because we can see hundreds of thousands of people that worked just as hard, and many of them much harder, than you and still ended up in abject poverty. Many of them literally starving.

You managed to go years though a very, very narrow path without getting hit by even one of the million things that could have knocked you back down into the gutter. Oh, I'm sure you think you did this because you planned. But you can't plan for most of the real life gutting things that happen.