What if...post count wasn't listed?

[joohang]

OK. The OT forum is supposed to be a place where people just chill and discuss all sorts of issues.

It's perfectly acceptable to respond "w00t" or "" if you have nothing to contribute but found the thread interesting.

 

[aphex]

<< Posting "whoot" or just a smiley face is normal in threads. That can only be for one reason, the person wants to up his post count. >>



Personally, i don't completely agree with this statement. I use short phrases and smilies simply as a sign that i read their post, and cared enough to show that. Even if you dont have anything of importance to add, its sometimes good to see that people are actually 'reading' the post. Quoting is another example of this, personally i use it just to exemplefy a point i thought was very well stated (to the point i could not add anything to make it better) and that i think should be repeated again to show my support on the issue at hand.



<< When someone asks for help, what good does it do to post "I'm sure someone can help you"? >>



Just as i stated above, this is just showing that you read their post and cared enough about it to give a helpful bump. With the speeds threads can drop in OT, it can be a very useful tool.



<< it's more about respect or the complete lack of it by those members for everyone else >>



Im not sure what implies a lack of respect in this case.



<< turning AT forums into a laughingstock of the web. >>



Is this really an important issue?


Granted, i dont 'always' agree with the side of the nefs, but in this case I just find it disturbing that some of you think it will the the downfall of the forums.




EDIT:

<< OK. The OT forum is supposed to be a place where people just chill and discuss all sorts of issues. >>



I couldnt agree with you more.

 

[Lucky]

All the nefs are doing is cluttering up the threads, disrupting the flow of the threads and turning AT forums into a laughingstock of the web.[i/]

Who nef's an extraordinary amount outside of OT (and perhaps HD?)

There is only one thing that I've ever heard people ridicule AT about, and it certainly isnt nefs.

 

[pyonir]

<< OK. The OT forum is supposed to be a place where people just chill and discuss all sorts of issues.

It's perfectly acceptable to respond "w00t" or "" if you have nothing to contribute but found the thread interesting. >>


i agree with you and aphex. my take is that it is all about why you are here. If you come here for the FS/FT and HD forums then you obviously are going to think your posts 'mean something' more to the forums than anyone who hangs out solely in OT. I come here to participate in the discussions in OT. i visit this forum and maybe Software and HD once in a while, but i spend most of my time in OT. so i am wasting bandwidth, that i payed for, because i make my posts in OT? sure i have my nef posts, but a large majority of my posts relate to the topic in some way.

Like aphexII said, when you post a simple "sorry i can't help" you are in effect keeping the thread at the top so the chance of someone being able to help is greater. i wouldn't post here any less if they took away the post count numbers.

(and i am not a 'pimply faced teen', i hope you do realize that everyone in OT isn't a teenager or younger)

EDIT:
Or maybe we should just get rid of the Off Topic forum. that is what your complaint basically is isn't it?

 

[Gaard]

It makes sense to me that if you pay for the bandwidth you're entitled to nef as long as it's within the scope of the rules, but do you guys that

<< use the bandwidth as you see fit >>

have a problem with eliminating/hiding post counts? Sounds to me like it'd be good for everyone...weed out those that post just to increase their post count (thereby eliminating useless bandwidth suckage), but at the same time wouldn't bother people who nef strictly for the fun of it and non-neffers alike.

 

[olds]

<< (and i am not a 'pimply faced teen', i hope you do realize that everyone in OT isn't a teenager or younger) >>



Case Closed.

 

[olouie]

interesting debate.... i like the post counts. let me see how is trusted sometimes

 

[pyonir]

do you really think that it would make an impact on the bandwidth? I HIGHLY doubt it. for the traffic on this site, i really don't think it would make that much of a difference. there are very few people that actually just "post to see an increase in their post count".

it seems you are taking a problem that is so small and blowing it out of proportion.

 

[Gaard]

<< there are very few people that actually just "post to see an increase in their post count". >>


I disagree. IMO, there are many people who fit the desciption.





<< it seems you are taking a problem that is so small and blowing it out of proportion. >>


I honestedly wouldn't know. But I have seen posts from both members and moderators chastising people for posting drivel and taking up bandwidth.

I still don't understand why people are against this. Maybe not eliminating them all together...but as previously mentioned by concerned traders, how can putting post counts in your profile (and not having them out in the open) be a bad idea? I don't know how much of an effect it would have on the bandwidth problem, but with Anand having to resort to subscriptions and caps it would seem that every little bit helps. Agree?

 

[pyonir]

i never said i was against it. i could care less. i just don't see the need for rewriting the software. and from the other thread it looks as though it won't be happening for quite some time, according to Zuni.

really i have seen just as many complain about nefs as i see nefs.

 

[minendo]

<< I disagree. IMO, there are many people who fit the desciption. >>


The biggest problem is the people who spend countless hours in Off Topic. Many members here spend a lot of time in OT, but they also provide support in other forums. I have noticed that many of the people "bitching" in here about post count spend a lot of time in OT. So what if a member racks up a high post count. It does not hurt you in anyway and if it bothers you that much try to spend less time in OT.

I have noticed recently that there are several threads that become nef threads almost immediately so all you have to do is stay out of them.

Now for those of you that are complaining about the bandwidth there is an easy solution to that. It is known as subscribing.

 

[Gaard]

<< The biggest problem is the people who spend countless hours in Off Topic. Many members here spend a lot of time in OT, but they also provide support in other forums. I have noticed that many of the people "bitching" in here about post count spend a lot of time in OT. So what if a member racks up a high post count. It does not hurt you in anyway and if it bothers you that much try to spend less time in OT. >>


No, no, no. You don't understand. High post counts aren't the issue. I got no problem with high post counts...I don't think anybody does. If people want to spend a lot of time in OT, so be it. I'm in there a lot myself. The issue is whether or not it's benificial to make post counts less visible, thereby reducing the number of posters who post strictly for the sake of increasing their post count. I think it's kinda like "Hey, everybody! Look at that number underneath my name!!!"







<< I have noticed recently that there are several threads that become nef threads almost immediately so all you have to do is stay out of them. >>


Wouldn't it be better if they didn't become nef threads to begin with?






<< Now for those of you that are complaining about the bandwidth there is an easy solution to that. It is known as subscribing. >>


Actually, the first to complain about bandwidth issues were the powers-that-be in charge of these forums. I think this suggestion isn't as much a complaint as it is a suggestion to try and help Anand. (And I admit, IMO reducing the # of nefs can't/won't hurt my feelings...If I wanted to see crap like "What color underwear are you wearing?" I'd go to AOL.)

The question remains:Would this suggestion help (no matter how minimal) with Anand's bandwidth problem? And if so, why shouldn't it be implemented?

 

[Red Dawn]

Shut up Minendo.

Do away with post counts.

 

[minendo]

<< Shut up Minendo.

Do away with post counts. >>


That was a very enlightening post Red. You care to discuss your reasons as to why post count should be done away with?



<< "What color underwear are you wearing?" >>


Now posts like this do waste bandwidth, but it is the Off Topic forum. The description clearly states "A public meeting place, a Pub, if you will... A place for computer junkies to boldly post Off Topic... Things you might want to tell everyone... Or things you wouldn't say to anyone else. " Now who is to say what can and what can't be posted in Off Topic. I believe that is one of the greatest problems the Mods have. They have to decide what should be allowed and what should not be without appearing as though they are playing favorites.

Personally it does not concern me if post counts are not counted, but I still think it would not stop the endless posting. There may be those that that try to acquire high post counts, but then there are those that post count does not matter to.

 

[Jason Clark]

As said many many times before, Anandtech does not and will not modify the software If you guys have suggestions for the forums then forward them to e-zonemedia, as we do not modify the software.

Thanks.

 

[Gaard]

<< << "What color underwear are you wearing?" >>


Now posts like this do waste bandwidth, but it is the Off Topic forum. The description clearly states "A public meeting place, a Pub, if you will... A place for computer junkies to boldly post Off Topic... Things you might want to tell everyone... Or things you wouldn't say to anyone else. " Now who is to say what can and what can't be posted in Off Topic. I believe that is one of the greatest problems the Mods have. They have to decide what should be allowed and what should not be without appearing as though they are playing favorites.
>>


I agree with you that it's just too much to ask the mods to make a post by post decision on what's acceptable and what isn't. Can't be done fairly. So you go on to the next available alternative...and that is to try and make it so that the mods don't even have to try and make those decisions. And how do you do that, you ask. ;P You hide the post counts, thereby reducing the # of questionable posts that the mods have to make a decision on. See? It's simple logic.

Possible results of hiding post counts:

PRO
Reduce the number of nefs...are there any non-nefs here who have a problem with this?

People don't have to wade thru topics like the underwear topic mentioned above...any non-nefs who like wading thru that crap?

reducing the # of nefs = reducing bandwidth suckage...I'm assuming there aren't any arguements here.

I'd also like to add that somebody mentioned that they've seen just as many people complaining about the nefs as nefs themselves. I submit that getting rid of the nefs not only would reduce their posts, but also the posts complaining about them...now that is definately a good thing for the bandwidth problem.

CON
The only thing I can think of why this wouldn't be benificial to these forums is that maybe a good percentage of the subscibers are of the post-count conscious type nef. Then it'd be in Anand's best interests to make these forums as appealing to the nefs as possible. Kinda like a catch-22...in order to keep the forums you have to accept the nefs along with it. Of course, this is only my opinion, but I can't think of any other reason against hiding post counts.

 

[Gaard]

<< As said many many times before, Anandtech does not and will not modify the software If you guys have suggestions for the forums then forward them to e-zonemedia, as we do not modify the software. >>



I think it's probably a good idea to discuss this among us members first, don't you agree? Seeing as there really is just one man who can make this decision, Anand should be made aware of this thread so that he can consider the suggestion.

Just out of curiousity Zuni, what do you think of the suggestion?


And I remember stuff like:
The 'Today' page controversy.
The 'next' button controversy.
The text size controversy.
The yellow band at the top controversy.
The whole PM thing.

 

[Red Dawn]

<< That was a very enlightening post Red. You care to discuss your reasons as to why post count should be done away with? >>

Yes, idiots like Gopunk wouldn't have a reason to make over 13,000 posts, none of which have been worth reading, within a year.

 

[minendo]

<<

<< That was a very enlightening post Red. You care to discuss your reasons as to why post count should be done away with? >>

Yes, idiots like Gopunk wouldn't have a reason to make over 13,000 posts, none of which have been worth reading, within a year. >>


Well I can't say that I disagree with your reasoning.

 

[networkman]

Posting "whoot" or just a smiley face is normal in threads. That can only be for one reason, the person wants to up his post count. It doesn't contribute to the thread in any way at all.

While there is an occasion NEF thread posted in the Distributed Computing forum, I think you'll find that many of the 1-line posts in that forum are usually along the lines of "Congrats on the accomplishment!" or "Welcome to the TeAm!".

I should think that even being as short as they are, those kind of posts are positive, working to build others up, not tear them down.

EDIT: Duh.. getting back to the topic at hand.. I don't think not listing the post count would work(at least not now), as the "Title" of each member is directly tied into the post count(with the exception of Elite). Even if the post counts were eliminated from view, people would still NEF just to get to the next title.

It's unfortunate but true.

 

[Beau]

Perhaps a better change would be to have an OT chat room, rather than a forum. No disk space requirements, realtime posting and chatting. The thing about OT is that it is conversation. Neffing is conversation too. You do it verbally with your buddies in person, what's the diff if you do it here? Disk space? Bandwidth? If we used a dynamic chat room that would allow us to create individual rooms that would expire after 24 hours of idling, there would be a lot less of these problems. Keep the all the other forums, just add the chat rooms and move conversations there.

 

[etech]

networkman

Are those people making post after post with only a minute separating them? Are they posting one or two word replies in every thread in a forum?

I don't think anyone and I certainly don't have a problem with the occasional nef thread. I've even been in one or two. I'm talking about the group that is only concerned about their post count. It is obvious who they are and what they are doing. In my opinion the have no respect for the fourms or for the other members of this forum.


My suggestion would be to remove the top ten posters list from the "Today Page". That would not hurt anyone.


While we are on the subject of nef threads. Why was the Someday I'll be as old as Russ and Harvey thread deleted

It was among many threads locked and deleted due to their obvious "NEF" status. It wasn't done to upset anyone; just part of an effort we are making to cut down on threads that have outlived their usefulness. If this upsets you then maybe you?ll understand the problem we face trying to keep everybody happy while cutting down on useless and "Neff" threads/posts.

 

[Geekbabe]

etech,

After thinking it over I've got to say that I'm in agreement with you on "post count +1" posts
it is annoying and should be stopped. As far as the one line responses I have to ask ,is it the the short response that bothers most or is it the fact that people,(myself included sometimes) are careless and don't think to edit the quoted material to only include the point they are responding to ?

As far as this all goes, I have never engaged in blatant "nef" style postings but I most certainly can be accused of being a more frivious poster.All I can say is that while the religious/political debates can be amusing to read that I'm no fighter and that it is the more light hearted or purely social threads that drew me in and got me to be a more fully partcipating member of this community.

I'm all in favor of making the forums more tolerable and enjoyable for our more serious and respected members like yourself but would ask you gentlemen to remember the faction of the membership like myself who enjoy the lighter side of the boards.Surely there is a way that
a happy medium can be reached ?

 

[Azraele]

<< I'm in agreement with you on "post count +1" posts >>


I agree as well. I don't think such blatant nef posts should be allowed, however, it might be hard and somewhat nitpicky for the mods to start a campaign against them.

Why not start a post count docking program. If a user nefs too much, simply dock their post count by say 100 posts, or even set them back to 1 post. This has been suggested before when someone suggested that cronic nefs have their status reset to junior member. I just thought I'd throw it back on the table.

 

[Migroo]

Good idea Azreale - I agree 100% with the post docking idea, but the idea itself brings yet more issues, and I do not believe that the post-count is the biggest incentive for posting. I believe that there is a lot of truth in what Beau said in regards to the Off Topic forum being used as a Chat Room.

For Discussion

People get annoyed with people 'posting useless posts'. But I do not believe that that is the intention - people are just chatting. Is this really the intention of the AnandTech forums though?? Should something be done? I am willing to bet that Off Topic uses a LOT of bandwidth, so there is some incentive to improve the situation IF people see fit - which is why I am raising the issue.

Then again what should be determined as neffing? It is obvious that you cant please everyone in this scenario - opinion is divided enough as it is with the current situation. Would we really please more people by changing? That is what we must determine, but I feel that it is going to be down to the powers that be to make a final decision - either that or a simple 'no' as usual because someone cant even be bothered to consider it.

I have followed this thread in its entirety, and there are some pretty radical proposals and ideas being put forward!

It is extremely hard to be objective without offending anyone. All I will say is that it is obvious those who feel threatened by this thread, and its topic.

Where is the line drawn between 'Neffing' and over-enthusiastic (but still tolerated) posting?

I can see a lot of different types of posters who may feel threatened by this thread: Those who post at every opportunity, those that make a point of posting to increase their post count, and those who (while they may post a lot) do genuinely make a good contribution to the forums. Then again, its only down to opinion, and a 'Nef' to someone is one of the best contributors in another's eyes.

To be perfectly honest, I do not see how an Off Topic forum belongs here, but who am I to question its existance? I myself post there occasionally - BUT I would not miss it. I do however find it disturbing how people can post hardware related topics there. If the Off Topic frequenters want the 'anti-nefs' to back down, then I would suggest that a good move would be to use the Navigation toolbar and get to the relevant forum!!.


I'm not flaming anyone here, just after some views, as the views expressed in this thread surely cant be the opinion of a good cross section of the community.

Edit: It is hard to come across lightly, but please no one take my views to heart. I am very aware of people like Baffled2 and what they use the forum for - a medium would be a nice solution. If anyone has qualms with what I have said, please PM me.