Well, I didn't realize this thread would still be kicking around. I'll finish what I a started. 
Petrek:
<< How could the Christian God be discerned otherwise? >>
Discerned? You can tell the omnipotent is a supreme "male" deity of the universe? Unless, you follow the logic that God created err Israelites in his image, I could see that.
<< Granted, because they come from the same source >>
As Linuxboy states there is a commonality, but no so at the pith of each mysticism and mythology. If Yahweh is placed on a hierachy of celestial type beings, he's just one of the few... Quan Yin, Athena, Tao, Tara, Amitabha, etc...
<< Take another look at what I said in response to MB. >>
I did. I'm following your train of logic to the tee, to the moment your beliefs meet absolute conditional reality.
<< We can't all be right and all be wrong-that is illogical-not. >>
You take it too literally? It is a way of expressing Tao's principle of cold harmony: perspective help keeps the person grounded.
<< I'm not entirely sure what you said here, but the fact that you said I am following tradition is what concerns me. Again, I have a personal relationship with God, and try to obey what He says in the Bible. I do not adhere to the traditions of men as do many other "christian" sects, I adhere to the word of God. >>
af·fin·i·ty (-fn-t)
n. pl. af·fin·i·ties
A natural attraction, liking, or feeling of kinship.
Relationship by marriage.
An inherent similarity between persons or things. See Synonyms at likeness.
Biology. A relationship or resemblance in structure between species that suggests a common origin.
Immunology. The attraction between an antigen and an antibody.
Chemistry. An attraction or force between particles that causes them to combine.
And..
e·thos (ths)
n.
The disposition, character, or fundamental values peculiar to a specific person, people, culture, or movement: ?They cultivated a subversive alternative ethos? (Anthony Burgess).
First, so speaking from the above meanings, I see a connection as a frequency. It is the way we are 'tuned' to certain faiths, certain resonance that's not defined within reason or facts. When I mentioned Unconscious Egos:
"Only after I had familiarized myself with alchemy did I realize that the unconscious is a process, and that the psyche is transformed or developed by the relationship of the ego to the contents of the unconscious."
- C. G. Jung; Memories, Dreams, Reflections: P. 209"
Second, I made a notion on Jung's theory that our individuation process in 'faith' manifests from the unconscious via the ego. You are not necessarily aware of the process happening directly unless you have the awareness to observe it indirectly.
Third, since the potential of the frequency is there, the person will possibly 'tune' out other 'frequencies' irrelevant to the individuation process.
EngineNr-9:
<< I like the way you put that. Although I would say that in order to examine other "boxes", you sort of have to step inside another box. The difference is though, I suppose, that we don't really subscribe to that box, rather we use it as a launching pad of sorts.
I don't care for words, I don't care for labels, they're too limiting. But at the same time, I have no other choice but to use them. When I speak, I have to speak with a certainty (arrogance) that does not really exist, because I'm also floating around with no real box other than the one I have to wear for a particular purpose. Accepting all takes on life, and conversely accepting none, it's a great contradiction (the essence of life?). It's funny if you think about it, how such disassociated people are, on an existensial level, defective components of nature. >>
Exactly. It wasn't meant to be taken literally, but symbolically. It's map processing you are alluding to, not sequential processing.. Contradiction = paradox is a useful essential.. If you were to achieve the level of Satori that I only experienced, you wouldn't give a rat's ass about the perceptual basis of dissociation at your core level. It wouldn't exist because dissociation, once you realized it, is not inherent of nature but created from enculteration.
Petrek:
<< How could the Christian God be discerned otherwise? >>
Discerned? You can tell the omnipotent is a supreme "male" deity of the universe? Unless, you follow the logic that God created err Israelites in his image, I could see that.
<< Granted, because they come from the same source >>
As Linuxboy states there is a commonality, but no so at the pith of each mysticism and mythology. If Yahweh is placed on a hierachy of celestial type beings, he's just one of the few... Quan Yin, Athena, Tao, Tara, Amitabha, etc...
<< Take another look at what I said in response to MB. >>
I did. I'm following your train of logic to the tee, to the moment your beliefs meet absolute conditional reality.
<< We can't all be right and all be wrong-that is illogical-not. >>
You take it too literally? It is a way of expressing Tao's principle of cold harmony: perspective help keeps the person grounded.
<< I'm not entirely sure what you said here, but the fact that you said I am following tradition is what concerns me. Again, I have a personal relationship with God, and try to obey what He says in the Bible. I do not adhere to the traditions of men as do many other "christian" sects, I adhere to the word of God. >>
af·fin·i·ty (-fn-t)
n. pl. af·fin·i·ties
A natural attraction, liking, or feeling of kinship.
Relationship by marriage.
An inherent similarity between persons or things. See Synonyms at likeness.
Biology. A relationship or resemblance in structure between species that suggests a common origin.
Immunology. The attraction between an antigen and an antibody.
Chemistry. An attraction or force between particles that causes them to combine.
And..
e·thos (ths)
n.
The disposition, character, or fundamental values peculiar to a specific person, people, culture, or movement: ?They cultivated a subversive alternative ethos? (Anthony Burgess).
First, so speaking from the above meanings, I see a connection as a frequency. It is the way we are 'tuned' to certain faiths, certain resonance that's not defined within reason or facts. When I mentioned Unconscious Egos:
"Only after I had familiarized myself with alchemy did I realize that the unconscious is a process, and that the psyche is transformed or developed by the relationship of the ego to the contents of the unconscious."
- C. G. Jung; Memories, Dreams, Reflections: P. 209"
Second, I made a notion on Jung's theory that our individuation process in 'faith' manifests from the unconscious via the ego. You are not necessarily aware of the process happening directly unless you have the awareness to observe it indirectly.
Third, since the potential of the frequency is there, the person will possibly 'tune' out other 'frequencies' irrelevant to the individuation process.
EngineNr-9:
<< I like the way you put that. Although I would say that in order to examine other "boxes", you sort of have to step inside another box. The difference is though, I suppose, that we don't really subscribe to that box, rather we use it as a launching pad of sorts.
I don't care for words, I don't care for labels, they're too limiting. But at the same time, I have no other choice but to use them. When I speak, I have to speak with a certainty (arrogance) that does not really exist, because I'm also floating around with no real box other than the one I have to wear for a particular purpose. Accepting all takes on life, and conversely accepting none, it's a great contradiction (the essence of life?). It's funny if you think about it, how such disassociated people are, on an existensial level, defective components of nature. >>
Exactly. It wasn't meant to be taken literally, but symbolically. It's map processing you are alluding to, not sequential processing.. Contradiction = paradox is a useful essential.. If you were to achieve the level of Satori that I only experienced, you wouldn't give a rat's ass about the perceptual basis of dissociation at your core level.
It wouldn't exist because dissociation, once you realized it, is not inherent of nature but created from enculteration."People talk glibly about the highest knowledge, but in their everyday lives they are satisfied with the things of the lower plane."
please read the following:
RAMAKRISHNA
Skylark:
You said in response to my post to engine-"I chuckle when I see that the Christian-God could be discerned as a He.."
I said-"How could the Christian God be discerned otherwise?"
You said-"Discerned? You can tell the omnipotent is a supreme "male" deity of the universe?"
The Christian-God is male, yes.
When I said "Granted, because they come from the same source", I was referring to Satan.
When I said "Guessing about the future is pointless. I deal with the here and now. And biblical prophecies are consistant with what is happening around us." I was responding to what Moonbeam said in the post directly above: ". My concern is that as time goes on, I fear that a statistically smaller amd smaller sample of the population will be able to be shoe horned into your brand of sneeker. The proof of that seems to be all around you. Such people will be looking around and if there is nothing, they will find nothing."
I took his statement to mean that people who believe the Bible is the literal word of God (like myself) will eventually die out due to lack of evidence to support such a belief. I readily admit that is exactly how I thought prior to taking a serious look at the evidence. And after taking a serious look at the evidence I accepted Christ as my Saviour, and the Bible as His literal word because that is what the evidence supported.
So when you said: "Really? Tell me now, I have 5 seconds to live, I pledge no devotion in my heart for God, what will happen to me? Hmm?" and I asked you to take another look at what I said to moonbeam, what I wanted you to key in on was my statement "biblical prophecies are consistant with what is happening around us." Or my belief that, what God says in the Bible will happen, it's not a matter of if, but when.
While I recognize what you are implying on your other two points, I do not accept Tao or Jung as authorities in the matter.
Dave
You said in response to my post to engine-"I chuckle when I see that the Christian-God could be discerned as a He.."
I said-"How could the Christian God be discerned otherwise?"
You said-"Discerned? You can tell the omnipotent is a supreme "male" deity of the universe?"
The Christian-God is male, yes.
When I said "Granted, because they come from the same source", I was referring to Satan.
When I said "Guessing about the future is pointless. I deal with the here and now. And biblical prophecies are consistant with what is happening around us." I was responding to what Moonbeam said in the post directly above: ". My concern is that as time goes on, I fear that a statistically smaller amd smaller sample of the population will be able to be shoe horned into your brand of sneeker. The proof of that seems to be all around you. Such people will be looking around and if there is nothing, they will find nothing."
I took his statement to mean that people who believe the Bible is the literal word of God (like myself) will eventually die out due to lack of evidence to support such a belief. I readily admit that is exactly how I thought prior to taking a serious look at the evidence. And after taking a serious look at the evidence I accepted Christ as my Saviour, and the Bible as His literal word because that is what the evidence supported.
So when you said: "Really? Tell me now, I have 5 seconds to live, I pledge no devotion in my heart for God, what will happen to me? Hmm?" and I asked you to take another look at what I said to moonbeam, what I wanted you to key in on was my statement "biblical prophecies are consistant with what is happening around us." Or my belief that, what God says in the Bible will happen, it's not a matter of if, but when.
While I recognize what you are implying on your other two points, I do not accept Tao or Jung as authorities in the matter.
Dave
I don't have anything to say - just want to see how long this thread can get.
Is this a record or anything?
Is this a record or anything?
Petrek:
<< When I said "Granted, because they come from the same source", I was referring to Satan. >>
That's one of the most ridiculous xian-ish claim I've ever heard.. I"m not even going to dignify a response to that.
<< When I said "Guessing about the future is pointless. I deal with the here and now. And biblical prophecies are consistant with what is happening around us." I was responding to what Moonbeam said in the post directly above: ". My concern is that as time goes on, I fear that a statistically smaller amd smaller sample of the population will be able to be shoe horned into your brand of sneeker. The proof of that seems to be all around you. Such people will be looking around and if there is nothing, they will find nothing."
I took his statement to mean that people who believe the Bible is the literal word of God (like myself) will eventually die out due to lack of evidence to support such a belief. I readily admit that is exactly how I thought prior to taking a serious look at the evidence. And after taking a serious look at the evidence I accepted Christ as my Saviour, and the Bible as His literal word because that is what the evidence supported. >>
You said it's pointless yet you take the literally the word of God. I followed your train of thought -- right up to the heaven and hell theme of yours with a serious hypothetical question on your creepy sense of morality. When you go to epistemological extreme for proof to assuage your beliefs, you might miss out on certain aspects of spiritual growth, for the moment anyways. and Yes, I understood your previous commments.. All I can say is: "If people who seek truth and do no understand how dangerous beliefs could do to them, they're in a world of their own making."
<< So when you said: "Really? Tell me now, I have 5 seconds to live, I pledge no devotion in my heart for God, what will happen to me? Hmm?" and I asked you to take another look at what I said to moonbeam, what I wanted you to key in on was my statement "biblical prophecies are consistant with what is happening around us." Or my belief that, what God says in the Bible will happen, it's not a matter of if, but when. >>
It was classic indirection..
<< While I recognize what you are implying on your other two points, I do not accept Tao or Jung as authorities in the matter. >>
If you don't have an ego, you would cease to be a high-functioning human being, period. I never mentioned Tao with frequencies. My points obviously speak for themselves as you have spoken now.. Carl Jung theories dealt also with Eastern mysticism / psychology. It's all relative and supportive of my ideas previously and other threads: faith is psychological.
<< When I said "Granted, because they come from the same source", I was referring to Satan. >>
That's one of the most ridiculous xian-ish claim I've ever heard.. I"m not even going to dignify a response to that.
<< When I said "Guessing about the future is pointless. I deal with the here and now. And biblical prophecies are consistant with what is happening around us." I was responding to what Moonbeam said in the post directly above: ". My concern is that as time goes on, I fear that a statistically smaller amd smaller sample of the population will be able to be shoe horned into your brand of sneeker. The proof of that seems to be all around you. Such people will be looking around and if there is nothing, they will find nothing."
I took his statement to mean that people who believe the Bible is the literal word of God (like myself) will eventually die out due to lack of evidence to support such a belief. I readily admit that is exactly how I thought prior to taking a serious look at the evidence. And after taking a serious look at the evidence I accepted Christ as my Saviour, and the Bible as His literal word because that is what the evidence supported. >>
You said it's pointless yet you take the literally the word of God. I followed your train of thought -- right up to the heaven and hell theme of yours with a serious hypothetical question on your creepy sense of morality. When you go to epistemological extreme for proof to assuage your beliefs, you might miss out on certain aspects of spiritual growth, for the moment anyways. and Yes, I understood your previous commments.. All I can say is: "If people who seek truth and do no understand how dangerous beliefs could do to them, they're in a world of their own making."
<< So when you said: "Really? Tell me now, I have 5 seconds to live, I pledge no devotion in my heart for God, what will happen to me? Hmm?" and I asked you to take another look at what I said to moonbeam, what I wanted you to key in on was my statement "biblical prophecies are consistant with what is happening around us." Or my belief that, what God says in the Bible will happen, it's not a matter of if, but when. >>
It was classic indirection..
<< While I recognize what you are implying on your other two points, I do not accept Tao or Jung as authorities in the matter. >>
If you don't have an ego, you would cease to be a high-functioning human being, period. I never mentioned Tao with frequencies. My points obviously speak for themselves as you have spoken now.. Carl Jung theories dealt also with Eastern mysticism / psychology. It's all relative and supportive of my ideas previously and other threads: faith is psychological.
These biblical prophecies are so hotly debated among different Christian groups, I don't see how anything about them can be regarded as consistant. Nostradamus made equally vague prophecies, and there are many who would contend with the same unflinching certainty that they are accurate.
"These biblical prophecies are so hotly debated among different Christian groups, I don't see how anything about them can be regarded as consistant. Nostradamus made equally vague prophecies, and there are many who would contend with the same unflinching certainty that they are accurate."
Engine, your suggestion that the prophecies in the Bible are equally as vague as the prophecies by Nostradamus is quite obviously based on hearsay, as such a comparison is completely invalid. And lacking in a personal review of the facts.
However, there is no debating the fact that many people have blind faith. I see it all the time, all around me. And you will get no argument from me that it exists, in large amounts.
You are also correct that biblical prophecies are hotly debated even among "Christian groups". The reason for the apparent inconsistency is a matter of ignorance over intelligence, as conflicting beliefs in regards to the timeline and meaning of future prophecies are basically nonexistant with Christians who have personally studied the issue.
Here's a good example of the type of ignorance and nonsense that leads one such as yourself to believe that Biblical prophecies can't be regarded as Truth.
I went to a buddies church a couple of months ago, and included in the Bulliten was a pamphlet that said, among other putrid things:
"Since Antichrist is called the Beast and has the number 666, people are constantly being scared by the appearance of this number. But assigning a number was a cryptic way of speaking of a person without giving the person's name. Since the letters of the alphabet were used for numbers, names had numerical value. Quite likely, John meant Nero, who had persecuted Roman Christians mecilessly. . Whoever this beastly personage was, it would have been too dangerous to mention him by name. So John used a coverup. He and his readers, of course, knew who was meant." The Mennonite Herald, David Ewert, professor emeritus of biblical studies at Concord College, now lives in Abbotsford, B.C. He is the author of the book And Then Comes the End (Herlad Press).
One need not be very biblically informed to realize how utterly nonsensical such statements are. For we read in 2 Corinthians 11:23-25 about what Paul had to endure for preaching the Gospel: "...in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent,...Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one. Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned..." And yet the preacher would try to have me believe that the Antichrist has already come (which a quick read of Revelation will show the absurdity of such a suggestion, nonetheless) and that the reason he was not referred to by name was because it was too dangerous, what utter nonsense.
I became physically sick to my stomach listening to such putridly satanic lies. Nobody in the church seemed to be concerned by what was said aside from myself. And what is more disturbing is that the preacher teaches at the local "Christian" College, and this church is in what is considered to be the Bible belt. My experience at that church was terribly disturbing to say the least.
Let us take a quick look at another prophecy concerning the mark of the Beast. In Revelation 13:16-18 we read, "And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: and that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundered threescore and six."
This prophecy made little sense to people living in the centuries prior to this one. In fact in the 18th century, Westcott and Hort, who are responsible for all the perverted Bible versions that exist today, in their first revision changed the letter "i" to a letter "o" because they lacked faith that God would fulfill the phrophecy as it was written. Of course, now we know that the prophecy will be fulfilled as it was written, as will all of God's word. Scientists today are currently working on a chip which is based on human DNA which will, undoubtably, be used as an implant to verify a persons identity.
I've also seen a commercial on a few occasions recently were a person wanders around a grocery store placing groceries into his jacket and then goes to walk out the door and is stopped by the security gaurd untill a voice comes over the pa saying basically "thanks for your purchase", the security gaurd steps aside and says basically " have a nice day".
So if you want to know the facts, you'll have to look into them personally. As hearsay does not provide you with the evidence you need to make an informed conclusion as to who is telling the truth. God or men.
Later...
Dave
Engine, your suggestion that the prophecies in the Bible are equally as vague as the prophecies by Nostradamus is quite obviously based on hearsay, as such a comparison is completely invalid. And lacking in a personal review of the facts.
However, there is no debating the fact that many people have blind faith. I see it all the time, all around me. And you will get no argument from me that it exists, in large amounts.
You are also correct that biblical prophecies are hotly debated even among "Christian groups". The reason for the apparent inconsistency is a matter of ignorance over intelligence, as conflicting beliefs in regards to the timeline and meaning of future prophecies are basically nonexistant with Christians who have personally studied the issue.
Here's a good example of the type of ignorance and nonsense that leads one such as yourself to believe that Biblical prophecies can't be regarded as Truth.
I went to a buddies church a couple of months ago, and included in the Bulliten was a pamphlet that said, among other putrid things:
"Since Antichrist is called the Beast and has the number 666, people are constantly being scared by the appearance of this number. But assigning a number was a cryptic way of speaking of a person without giving the person's name. Since the letters of the alphabet were used for numbers, names had numerical value. Quite likely, John meant Nero, who had persecuted Roman Christians mecilessly. . Whoever this beastly personage was, it would have been too dangerous to mention him by name. So John used a coverup. He and his readers, of course, knew who was meant." The Mennonite Herald, David Ewert, professor emeritus of biblical studies at Concord College, now lives in Abbotsford, B.C. He is the author of the book And Then Comes the End (Herlad Press).
One need not be very biblically informed to realize how utterly nonsensical such statements are. For we read in 2 Corinthians 11:23-25 about what Paul had to endure for preaching the Gospel: "...in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent,...Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one. Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned..." And yet the preacher would try to have me believe that the Antichrist has already come (which a quick read of Revelation will show the absurdity of such a suggestion, nonetheless) and that the reason he was not referred to by name was because it was too dangerous, what utter nonsense.
I became physically sick to my stomach listening to such putridly satanic lies. Nobody in the church seemed to be concerned by what was said aside from myself. And what is more disturbing is that the preacher teaches at the local "Christian" College, and this church is in what is considered to be the Bible belt. My experience at that church was terribly disturbing to say the least.
Let us take a quick look at another prophecy concerning the mark of the Beast. In Revelation 13:16-18 we read, "And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: and that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundered threescore and six."
This prophecy made little sense to people living in the centuries prior to this one. In fact in the 18th century, Westcott and Hort, who are responsible for all the perverted Bible versions that exist today, in their first revision changed the letter "i" to a letter "o" because they lacked faith that God would fulfill the phrophecy as it was written. Of course, now we know that the prophecy will be fulfilled as it was written, as will all of God's word. Scientists today are currently working on a chip which is based on human DNA which will, undoubtably, be used as an implant to verify a persons identity.
I've also seen a commercial on a few occasions recently were a person wanders around a grocery store placing groceries into his jacket and then goes to walk out the door and is stopped by the security gaurd untill a voice comes over the pa saying basically "thanks for your purchase", the security gaurd steps aside and says basically " have a nice day".
So if you want to know the facts, you'll have to look into them personally. As hearsay does not provide you with the evidence you need to make an informed conclusion as to who is telling the truth. God or men.
Later...
Dave
Kerouactivist
Diamond Member
- Jul 12, 2001
- 4,665
- 0
- 76
In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to Liberty.
Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826)
Faith is believing what you know ain't so.
Mark Twain (1835-1910)
A Sunday school is a prison in which children do penance for the evil conscience of their parents.
Henry Louis Mencken (1880-1956)
Just thought I would throw some quotes into the mix
Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826)
Faith is believing what you know ain't so.
Mark Twain (1835-1910)
A Sunday school is a prison in which children do penance for the evil conscience of their parents.
Henry Louis Mencken (1880-1956)
Just thought I would throw some quotes into the mix
her209
No Lifer
- Oct 11, 2000
- 56,336
- 11
- 0
Here are some questions that I have been pondering:
1. Is there a God?
2. Is He perfect?
3. Is He just?
4. Is He all-knowing (i.e. past, present, future)?
5. Is He the controller of fate?
6. Is there Heaven and Hell?
7. Is He the creator of man and woman?
1. Is there a God?
2. Is He perfect?
3. Is He just?
4. Is He all-knowing (i.e. past, present, future)?
5. Is He the controller of fate?
6. Is there Heaven and Hell?
7. Is He the creator of man and woman?
No doubt others have reviewed these same facts and come to different conclusions. They would claim that you are the ignorant one. It's a big mess of people trying to pass off their interpretations as universal "facts".
As hearsay does not provide you with the evidence you need to make an informed conclusion as to who is telling the truth.
The bible itself is hearsay. The hearsay of many different men, filtered through multiple translations and interpretations.
As hearsay does not provide you with the evidence you need to make an informed conclusion as to who is telling the truth.
The bible itself is hearsay. The hearsay of many different men, filtered through multiple translations and interpretations.
"No doubt others have reviewed these same facts and come to different conclusions."
Engine, I'm glad you were able to comprehend the obvious implication of my above post and of the reality of the situation in general (by in general I mean in all facets of life, and not just as is related to religious issues, eg: science, politics, etc.). Which is precisely why I stated "So if you want to know the facts, you'll have to look into them personally."
"The bible itself is hearsay."
False, the Bible is the word of God. And God is all knowing. Thus the Bible is an eyewitness account.
"The hearsay of many different men"
Most books of the Bible were written by eyewitnesses as God inspired them.
"filtered through multiple translations and interpretations."
False. You obviously need to do some research on this issue. You could start by looking into the statement I made in the above post, namely, " In fact in the 18th century, Westcott and Hort, who are responsible for all the perverted Bible versions that exist today"
Later...
Dave
Engine, I'm glad you were able to comprehend the obvious implication of my above post and of the reality of the situation in general (by in general I mean in all facets of life, and not just as is related to religious issues, eg: science, politics, etc.). Which is precisely why I stated "So if you want to know the facts, you'll have to look into them personally."
"The bible itself is hearsay."
False, the Bible is the word of God. And God is all knowing. Thus the Bible is an eyewitness account.
"The hearsay of many different men"
Most books of the Bible were written by eyewitnesses as God inspired them.
"filtered through multiple translations and interpretations."
False. You obviously need to do some research on this issue. You could start by looking into the statement I made in the above post, namely, " In fact in the 18th century, Westcott and Hort, who are responsible for all the perverted Bible versions that exist today"
Later...
Dave
God is not a seperate entity from the bible, it is the bible that makes claim of god. You're using one to support the other. Circular reason lends itself to unearthing "facts" that we've planted for ourselves to find. A source can't verify itself with it's own claim of validity.
The bible had to be transcribed and compiled at one point or another. Language translation? Nothing can survive that fully intact. It is the nature of different languages.
"So if you want to know the facts, you'll have to look into them personally."
I'd imagine there'd be something wrong with me if I didn't examine these facts and see everything that you see? What makes a fact so? Doesn't everyone know the "real facts" according to themselves?
The bible had to be transcribed and compiled at one point or another. Language translation? Nothing can survive that fully intact. It is the nature of different languages.
"So if you want to know the facts, you'll have to look into them personally."
I'd imagine there'd be something wrong with me if I didn't examine these facts and see everything that you see? What makes a fact so? Doesn't everyone know the "real facts" according to themselves?
<< God is not a seperate entity from the bible, it is the bible that makes claim of god. You're using one to support the other. Circular reason lends itself to unearthing "facts" that we've planted for ourselves to find. A source can't verify itself with it's own claim of validity.
The bible had to be transcribed and compiled at one point or another. Language translation? Nothing can survive that fully intact. It is the nature of different languages.
"So if you want to know the facts, you'll have to look into them personally."
I'd imagine there'd be something wrong with me if I didn't examine these facts and see everything that you see? What makes a fact so? Doesn't everyone know the "real facts" according to themselves? >>
When you realize you're debating with a fundamentalist, it's all futile.. His claim about "Satan as the source" is beyond laughable. He didn't even realized Amitabha and Quan Yin tangentially trace back to Siddhartha.
Tis true, facts acquired through 'outside' knowledge is valuable but it's not enough since it's second-hand information.
"God is not a seperate entity from the bible"
Yes, He is.
"The bible had to be transcribed and compiled at one point or another. Language translation? Nothing can survive that fully intact. It is the nature of different languages."
Yes the Bible was translated from it's original language into English. I would however disagree with your suggestion that translation means loss.
"I'd imagine there'd be something wrong with me if I didn't examine these facts and see everything that you see? What makes a fact so? Doesn't everyone know the "real facts" according to themselves?"
As I explained earlier, truth and facts exist whether or not someone is aware of them. And being that you continue to post against Christianity and the Bible, it would only make sense that you would take the time to personally inform yourself on the subject which you are debating.
"it is the bible that makes claim of god. You're using one to support the other. Circular reason lends itself to unearthing "facts" that we've planted for ourselves to find. A source can't verify itself with it's own claim of validity."
The validity and truthfulness of what God says in the Bible is found in the world. It is one's knowledge of the world in which we live that verifies that what is stated in the Bible is the Truth.
Later...
Dave
Yes, He is.
"The bible had to be transcribed and compiled at one point or another. Language translation? Nothing can survive that fully intact. It is the nature of different languages."
Yes the Bible was translated from it's original language into English. I would however disagree with your suggestion that translation means loss.
"I'd imagine there'd be something wrong with me if I didn't examine these facts and see everything that you see? What makes a fact so? Doesn't everyone know the "real facts" according to themselves?"
As I explained earlier, truth and facts exist whether or not someone is aware of them. And being that you continue to post against Christianity and the Bible, it would only make sense that you would take the time to personally inform yourself on the subject which you are debating.
"it is the bible that makes claim of god. You're using one to support the other. Circular reason lends itself to unearthing "facts" that we've planted for ourselves to find. A source can't verify itself with it's own claim of validity."
The validity and truthfulness of what God says in the Bible is found in the world. It is one's knowledge of the world in which we live that verifies that what is stated in the Bible is the Truth.
Later...
Dave
Keego
Diamond Member
- Aug 15, 2000
- 6,223
- 2
- 81
I'm basically an agonistic as d1abolic is, but after thinking lonnnng and hard, it's mainly just dependant on if you have enough faith to believe. I mean, to be blunt, if you die and there's no such thing as heaven or hell, who cares? you're dead, no more staples $40 off $200 purchases, so what? Maybe I'm just bitter though.
petrek, how are you going to refute the statement that your god (the Christian god) is a weak and inferior being?
How are you going to refute the statement that gods are merely an illusion and that aliens from another universe are responsible for the creation and formation of this universe and all life in it, plus all of those 'miracles'?
Fact is that religions, aside from some irrelevant details, are mere supersition.
How are you going to refute the statement that gods are merely an illusion and that aliens from another universe are responsible for the creation and formation of this universe and all life in it, plus all of those 'miracles'?
Fact is that religions, aside from some irrelevant details, are mere supersition.
<< "God is not a seperate entity from the bible"
Yes, He is. >>
Every religious ideology has one or more gods which play an important role in these ideologies. When the ideology 'dies', the god(s) of the ideology vanishes with it.
Countless religions have vanished already, together with their gods. The god(s) of a religious ideology is/are part of that religion only. For this reason these gods have nothing to do with the existance or non-existance of any supernatural beings. Only with superstition.
<< "The bible had to be transcribed and compiled at one point or another. Language translation? Nothing can survive that fully intact. It is the nature of different languages."
Yes the Bible was translated from it's original language into English. I would however disagree with your suggestion that translation means loss. >>
- The bible was written in already a multitude of different languages.
- Language is subjective and everything but accurate. Definitions change constantly.
- The translation of a manuscript from one language into another always means that part of the original meaning of the manuscript is lost. Why else do you think that there are even multiple translations of Old-English books/poems into modern English, which all differ on many points?
"it's mainly just dependant on if you have enough faith to believe"
Kyguy, I would state it thusly, "it's mainly just dependant on if you have enough knowledge to recognize that belief/faith in Christ is the most logical conclusion based on the evidence."
Dave
Kyguy, I would state it thusly, "it's mainly just dependant on if you have enough knowledge to recognize that belief/faith in Christ is the most logical conclusion based on the evidence."
Dave
how about:
To know him in the mind, and delight in him in the heart with a due affection. <-Jonathon Edwards
Elledan's self-worship is plain to see. If you talk to him long enough, you'll get him to say really spectacular quotes about himself.
To know him in the mind, and delight in him in the heart with a due affection. <-Jonathon Edwards
Elledan's self-worship is plain to see. If you talk to him long enough, you'll get him to say really spectacular quotes about himself.
<< Elledan's self-worship is plain to see. If you talk to him long enough, you'll get him to say really spectacular quotes about himself. >>
Explain yourself. That is, if you aren't just trolling.
Without the bible, you would not know of this god.
The validity and truthfulness of what God says in the Bible is found in the world. It is one's knowledge of the world in which we live that verifies that what is stated in the Bible is the Truth.[i/]
Ditto for the Koran.
As I explained earlier, truth and facts exist whether or not someone is aware of them.
But you're aware of these facts, right? Where's the faith? You sound like you have everything figured out.
The validity and truthfulness of what God says in the Bible is found in the world. It is one's knowledge of the world in which we live that verifies that what is stated in the Bible is the Truth.[i/]
Ditto for the Koran.
As I explained earlier, truth and facts exist whether or not someone is aware of them.
But you're aware of these facts, right? Where's the faith? You sound like you have everything figured out.
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