Where was god during my exams? I prayed to all the gods i could think of, and it didn't help a bit.
<< I mean regardless what you believe in you are still going to die someday, then and only then will you know the true truth. >>
No you won't cuz you'll be taking an infinite dirt nap !
<< then billions of people would spend eternity in hell either for not believing in god or for not believing in the right god.
sorry to break it to you but god doesn't exist (don't hurt me) >>
Perfect example of a closed mind!
it doesn't matter. the people who aren't able to get to heaven will be part of a class action suit against god, claiming discrimination, and the true believers will still spend their time in hell giving depositions to the devil's advocate in a case that will drag on for eternity.
then slavery is ok,
Show me where the Bible says slavery is ok. It DOES say that if one is found in that position and is a CHRISTIAN, then they should not rebel and fight but serve the "master" in the same way Jesus subordinated himself as example for us.
the crusades were justified,
Who says? That's like saying that since Hitler was a evolutionist, that evolutionists support Nazism. Just because someone does something "in the name" of something, that doesn't mean that it TRULY reflects the thing they are doing it in the name of
the inquization was legitimate,
See post above
the sun revolves around the earth,
Suppose that you could get that from the Bible... but you could also get it from ancient Science.
women shouldnt be touched when on their period,
Laws written specifically to National Isreal and no one else. You got a problem with people having their own cultural taboos?
child molesting priests should be defended,
Hmmm... on single denomination. Has no bearing on whether or not GOD exists.
we would all live in fear because god is schizo who is sometimes forgiving and sometimes will burn you in a lake of fire,
Where do you get that He is sometimes forgiving? All who ask for forgiveness are forgiven. If your heart is hard, don't blame Him!
gays would be condemded or stoned,
Another law that was specifically given to the ancient nation of Israel and has no bearing on anyone else.
the constant pi is equal to exactly 3
Only if you go to the extreme that you want people 4000 years ago to be able to measure with laser perfection. Show me in Scripture where God is quoted as saying that pi = 3.
Joe
Show me where the Bible says slavery is ok. It DOES say that if one is found in that position and is a CHRISTIAN, then they should not rebel and fight but serve the "master" in the same way Jesus subordinated himself as example for us.
the crusades were justified,
Who says? That's like saying that since Hitler was a evolutionist, that evolutionists support Nazism. Just because someone does something "in the name" of something, that doesn't mean that it TRULY reflects the thing they are doing it in the name of
the inquization was legitimate,
See post above
the sun revolves around the earth,
Suppose that you could get that from the Bible... but you could also get it from ancient Science.
women shouldnt be touched when on their period,
Laws written specifically to National Isreal and no one else. You got a problem with people having their own cultural taboos?
child molesting priests should be defended,
Hmmm... on single denomination. Has no bearing on whether or not GOD exists.
we would all live in fear because god is schizo who is sometimes forgiving and sometimes will burn you in a lake of fire,
Where do you get that He is sometimes forgiving? All who ask for forgiveness are forgiven. If your heart is hard, don't blame Him!
gays would be condemded or stoned,
Another law that was specifically given to the ancient nation of Israel and has no bearing on anyone else.
the constant pi is equal to exactly 3
Only if you go to the extreme that you want people 4000 years ago to be able to measure with laser perfection. Show me in Scripture where God is quoted as saying that pi = 3.
Joe
<<
<< Furthermore, the chance that supernatural beings exist is 0% >>
LOL! Bet you a root beer float that your 0% figure will increase slightly one day. Phil 2:9-11.
And you talk about us being closed-minded. I never shut the door in your face and told you that alien control is impossible, but... now that you bring it up...
The chance that aliens exist is 0%, while the probability that the Judeo-Christian God exists is hovering somewhere around 90%. Now how do you like random facts being posted with no support whatsoever? >>
Haven't I told you already that you're incapable of logic?
Believe me, it's very simple.
We can observe the universe and make predictions on how many planets suitable for life there are throughout the universe. This is how we can estimate the chance on alien life. The chance that alien life exists is at this moment 100%.
Then, since we've no way to predict the possibility that supernatural beings exist and we've no reason to believe that it's more than a figment of the imagination, the chance on this being the case is 0%.
<< Don't post out of the blue. Where the alien-place-of-mass-destruction-and-torture are you getting these percentages? I can guess where you pulled them...
You haven't proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that God doesn't exist. Don't quote a 0% figure, or you're going to feel really stupid one day. >>
ROFL
One can neither prove nor disprove the existance of supernatural beings.
One can neither prove nor disprove the existance of purple, man-eating demons which occasionally visit our world and cause disasters and wars.
In neither case we've a reason to assume that supernatural beings or purple, man-eating demons exist. Therefore both 'theories' rely on superstition only.
kami
Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 17,627
- 5
- 81
<< We can observe the universe and make predictions on how many planets suitable for life there are throughout the universe. This is how we can estimate the chance on alien life. The chance that alien life exists is at this moment 100%.
Then, since we've no way to predict the possibility that supernatural beings exist and we've no reason to believe that it's more than a figment of the imagination, the chance on this being the case is 0%. >>
Alright now just stop the thread with this, cause thats all some of your bozos need to know.
<< We can observe the universe and make predictions on how many planets suitable for life there are throughout the universe. This is how we can estimate the chance on alien life. The chance that alien life exists is at this moment 100%. >>
Don't lie. We can in no way assume it's 100%. We know the universe is littered with organic material and that planets seem to exist outside our system but we have no concrete evidence that alien life exists. It's probable, but no where near 100% at the current time. 100% is the actual observation of alien life BTW.
<< then slavery is ok,
Show me where the Bible says slavery is ok. It DOES say that if one is found in that position and is a CHRISTIAN, then they should not rebel and fight but serve the "master" in the same way Jesus subordinated himself as example for us.
the crusades were justified,
Who says? That's like saying that since Hitler was a evolutionist, that evolutionists support Nazism. Just because someone does something "in the name" of something, that doesn't mean that it TRULY reflects the thing they are doing it in the name of
the inquization was legitimate,
See post above
the sun revolves around the earth,
Suppose that you could get that from the Bible... but you could also get it from ancient Science.
women shouldnt be touched when on their period,
Laws written specifically to National Isreal and no one else. You got a problem with people having their own cultural taboos?
child molesting priests should be defended,
Hmmm... on single denomination. Has no bearing on whether or not GOD exists.
we would all live in fear because god is schizo who is sometimes forgiving and sometimes will burn you in a lake of fire,
Where do you get that He is sometimes forgiving? All who ask for forgiveness are forgiven. If your heart is hard, don't blame Him!
gays would be condemded or stoned,
Another law that was specifically given to the ancient nation of Israel and has no bearing on anyone else.
the constant pi is equal to exactly 3
Only if you go to the extreme that you want people 4000 years ago to be able to measure with laser perfection. Show me in Scripture where God is quoted as saying that pi = 3.
Joe >>
Good response. I was also going to reply, but the unbelievable stupidity of the statement - I didn't know where to begin :Q
I think he was joking though... ? It'd be an insult to non-Christians if he was trying to be serious
<<
<< We can observe the universe and make predictions on how many planets suitable for life there are throughout the universe. This is how we can estimate the chance on alien life. The chance that alien life exists is at this moment 100%. >>
Don't lie. We can in no way assume it's 100%. We know the universe is littered with organic material and that planets seem to exist outside our system but we have no concrete evidence that alien life exists. It's probable, but no where near 100% at the current time. 100% is the actual observation of alien life BTW. >>
You're right, of course. It's 99.999999% until we actually observe alien life =)
What if thousands of ATOTers could come up with there own original posts that hadn't already been beaten into the ground?
m00se
m00se
To know God is to have fiath in God, once you have faith in God and truly believe he will show himself to you in ways that no athiest or agnostic person will ever understand, but every christian that is reading this post does. God is so real, i can't explain everything b/c i just don't know, but he has shown himself to me(not physically) and to every christian that truly believes. No one, no matter what fancy quote you have or what logic you use can take the reality of God away from me.
God Bless
peace
sean
God Bless
peace
sean
<< God is so real, i can't explain everything b/c i just don't know, but he has shown himself to me(not physically) and to every christian that truly believes. No one, no matter what fancy quote you have or what logic you use can take the reality of God away from me. >>
What do they call this condition again?
Seriously, you believe in this 'god' because you've 'felt' that 'it' is 'real'? Well, there are more people on this world who feel that your god does not exist. They believe in other gods or no gods at all.
If you think that something so vague as 'feeling' counts as credible evidence, you're mistaken.
BTW, you know that part of the Human brain acts like some kind of 'spiritual' center? When stimulated, this part of the brain causes experiences which have always been linked to 'spiritual' events.
What you 'feel' is therefore very likely caused by this part of your brain.
I'm confused... since when do only a billion people believe in the existence of God? And yes, God is a term used by Jewish, Muslim, Christian, and to some extent Hindu people, and probably other religions that I can't think of off the top of my head as well.
<<Show me where the Bible says slavery is ok. It DOES say that if one is found in that position and is a CHRISTIAN, then they should not rebel and fight but serve the "master" in the same way Jesus subordinated himself as example for us.
>>
"As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from the nations that are round about you. You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their families that are with you, who have been born in your land; and they may be your property. You may bequeath them to your sons after you, to inherit as a possession forever; you may make slaves of them, but over your brethren the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another, with harshness."
..........Leviticus 25:44
"When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be punished; for the slave is his money."
..........Exodus 21:20
Slaves, be obedient to those who are your earthly masters, with fear and trembling, in singleness of heart, as to Christ...."
..........Ephesians 6:5
"Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, . . . and they shall be your possession . . . they shall be your bondmen forever."
..........Leviticus 25:45-46
"Let all who are under the yoke slavery regard their masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be defamed. Those who have believing masters must not be disrespectful on the ground that they are brethren; rather they must serve all the better since those that benefit by their service are believers and beloved."
..........1 Timothy 6:1
"Bid slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in every respect..."
..........Titus 2:9
"If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. . . . And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the manservant's do."
Leviticus 21:6-7
"Blessed are those servants whom the master finds awake when he comes...."
..........Luke 12:37
seems like slavery was ok in the Babble.
<<<the sun revolves around the earth,
Suppose that you could get that from the Bible... but you could also get it from ancient Science.>>>
Maybe so.
Do you know when the church admitted that they mistreated Galileo? 1983.
Do you know when the church apologized for the mistreatment of Galileo and that they were wrong? 1992.
WTF did it take the Church 350 years to admit that they were wrong?
<<<the constant pi is equal to exactly 3
Only if you go to the extreme that you want people 4000 years ago to be able to measure with laser perfection. Show me in Scripture where God is quoted as saying that pi = 3.>>>
Also he made a molten sea of ten cubits from brim to brim, round in compass, and five cubits the height thereof; and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about.
...............2 Chronicles 4:2
And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about.
................1 Kings 7:23
The Biblical value (God's value) of pi equals 3.
Without the almighty Lord, the Egyptians (~2000BC), Indians (~2000BC), Babylonians (~2000BC), and Chinese (400AD) came up with a VERY close value for today's standard value of pi. I guess the Xian God sucked/sucks at math...
>>
"As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from the nations that are round about you. You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their families that are with you, who have been born in your land; and they may be your property. You may bequeath them to your sons after you, to inherit as a possession forever; you may make slaves of them, but over your brethren the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another, with harshness."
..........Leviticus 25:44
"When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be punished; for the slave is his money."
..........Exodus 21:20
Slaves, be obedient to those who are your earthly masters, with fear and trembling, in singleness of heart, as to Christ...."
..........Ephesians 6:5
"Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, . . . and they shall be your possession . . . they shall be your bondmen forever."
..........Leviticus 25:45-46
"Let all who are under the yoke slavery regard their masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be defamed. Those who have believing masters must not be disrespectful on the ground that they are brethren; rather they must serve all the better since those that benefit by their service are believers and beloved."
..........1 Timothy 6:1
"Bid slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in every respect..."
..........Titus 2:9
"If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. . . . And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the manservant's do."
Leviticus 21:6-7
"Blessed are those servants whom the master finds awake when he comes...."
..........Luke 12:37
seems like slavery was ok in the Babble.
<<<the sun revolves around the earth,
Suppose that you could get that from the Bible... but you could also get it from ancient Science.>>>
Maybe so.
Do you know when the church admitted that they mistreated Galileo? 1983.
Do you know when the church apologized for the mistreatment of Galileo and that they were wrong? 1992.
WTF did it take the Church 350 years to admit that they were wrong?
<<<the constant pi is equal to exactly 3
Only if you go to the extreme that you want people 4000 years ago to be able to measure with laser perfection. Show me in Scripture where God is quoted as saying that pi = 3.>>>
Also he made a molten sea of ten cubits from brim to brim, round in compass, and five cubits the height thereof; and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about.
...............2 Chronicles 4:2
And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about.
................1 Kings 7:23
The Biblical value (God's value) of pi equals 3.
Without the almighty Lord, the Egyptians (~2000BC), Indians (~2000BC), Babylonians (~2000BC), and Chinese (400AD) came up with a VERY close value for today's standard value of pi. I guess the Xian God sucked/sucks at math...
I see all the usual anti-Christian bigots are out in force. Why does the thought of God terrify you people to the point that you must lash out at anyone of faith? I wonder, is bigotry forgivable when it's foundation is fear?
Russ, NCNE
Russ, NCNE
<< To know God is to have fiath in God, once you have faith in God and truly believe he will show himself to you in ways that no athiest or agnostic person will ever understand, but every christian that is reading this post does. God is so real, i can't explain everything b/c i just don't know, but he has shown himself to me(not physically) and to every christian that truly believes. No one, no matter what fancy quote you have or what logic you use can take the reality of God away from me. >>
To many, perception is reality, regardless of the accuracy of the perception.
I can liken this to ABX tests for audio equipment. Some will argue that "A" equipment sounds better than "B" equipment (assume this is not true). It is so real to them that statements saying they are wrong - that the two sound the same - are entirely unconvincing, if not offensive. Those who claim to hear differences will heed no arguments to the contrary if it doesn't agree with their perception. Perception is reality. Our senses never fail us, goes their thinking, and we may want to perceive things that don't really exist.
ABX tests aim to remove any false perceptions from the matter: Here is "X". Now, what is "X'? Is it "A"? or is it "B"? If the differences between "A" and "B" are real, the listener will be able to pick out the right choice time and again. If the differences are not real but only perceived, the listener will make as many incorrect selections as correct ones.
AFAIK, we have no ABX test for supernatural beings. So unfortunately, these arguments will never end as long as we cannot scientifically remove false perceptions from reality. In light of this, agnosticism is a rational choice.
To know Magic Elves is to have fiath in Magic Elves, once you have faith in Magic Elves and truly believe they will show themselves to you in ways that no athiest or agnostic person will ever understand, but every christian that is reading this post does. Magic Elves is so real, i can't explain everything b/c i just don't know, but they have shown themselves to me(not physically) and to every christian that truly believes. No one, no matter what fancy quote you have or what logic you use can take the reality of Magic Elves away from me
<< I see all the usual anti-Christian bigots are out in force. Why does the thought of God terrify you people to the point that you must lash out at anyone of faith? I wonder, is bigotry forgivable when it's foundation is fear?
Russ, NCNE >>
Do you really think that when one comments that the belief of a certain person is mere superstition, this person who makes the comment does this out of fear, because the imaginary friend/demon/something is so scary? Talking about stupid comments...
Point is that the belief in something for which no evidence in any form of shape can be found is mere superstition and therefore highly illogical. I hope that even you are capable of comprehending this.
<< Haven't I told you already that you're incapable of logic? >>
Sure. But you never gave me a logical reason, so I don't believe you. Of course, if I flatly accepted your statement that I'm incapable of logic without considering the implications, I truly would be incapable of logic. Nice try.
<< We can observe the universe and make predictions on how many planets suitable for life there are throughout the universe. This is how we can estimate the chance on alien life. The chance that alien life exists is at this moment 100%. >>
How many planets suitable for life there are? And how many is that? Furthermore, why must we assume that potentiality always produces actuality? Just because there's a planet that has the potential to sustain life does not mean that there is life there. Furthermore, we've never observed life spontaneously being created from nothing. In fact, our law of biogenesis indicates that life can only come from other life. So according to our current scientific laws, your theory is flawed. 100% flawed. And you say I'm incapable of logic. I think the truth is that I don't agree with your illogical statements. Excuse me.
<<
Then, since we've no way to predict the possibility that supernatural beings exist and we've no reason to believe that it's more than a figment of the imagination, the chance on this being the case is 0%.
>>
I suppose I could say the same thing about your aliens. Unless, of course, you have been abducted and abused by these aliens or have some other personal experience with them.
<<
One can neither prove nor disprove the existance of supernatural beings.
One can neither prove nor disprove the existance of purple, man-eating demons which occasionally visit our world and cause disasters and wars.
>>
One can neither prove nor disprove the existence of aliens which inhabit other planets based on the possibility that maybe there might be "x" number of inhabitable planets. Where is your proof? Or are you relying on superstition? Inhabitable != Inhabited. Furthermore, as usual, you're assuming the validity of macroevolution, which has never been observed, and thereby never been proven. You're also assuming the validity of spontaneous generation aka abiogenesis, which has also never been observed. Rather, everything we see in scientific observation indicates the obvious.
Your inferences are not facts. Treat them as opinions, and I'll treat them with more respect.
the chance that alien civilizations exist is hovering around 90%.
Elledan,
Did you know that 83.45687663% of statistics are made up on the spot?
All right thinking ATOTers already know that you are a fount of knowledge. For those of us....I mean....for those oddballs out there that think you just make stuff up whenever it suits you, why don't you expound on this figure a bit. To really show that you know what you're talking about, go ahead and get specific. They can handle it. They don't need vague generalities to understand the point.
Elledan,
Did you know that 83.45687663% of statistics are made up on the spot?
All right thinking ATOTers already know that you are a fount of knowledge. For those of us....I mean....for those oddballs out there that think you just make stuff up whenever it suits you, why don't you expound on this figure a bit. To really show that you know what you're talking about, go ahead and get specific. They can handle it. They don't need vague generalities to understand the point.
A lake can be round all about without being a perfect circle. There are multiple definitions of the word round, and only one of them relates to something shaped in such a way as to be equidistant from the center.
The earth, for example, is considered to be a round object, as in an egg. These are not entirely spherical objects.
I imagine that only an atheistic mathematician would try to prove that the authors of the bible believed Pi to be 3 from this statement (or a fundamentalist christian mathematician).
For the record, I am agnostic (as in, cannot know, not as in, do not know).
The earth, for example, is considered to be a round object, as in an egg. These are not entirely spherical objects.
I imagine that only an atheistic mathematician would try to prove that the authors of the bible believed Pi to be 3 from this statement (or a fundamentalist christian mathematician).
For the record, I am agnostic (as in, cannot know, not as in, do not know).
<< Furthermore, the chance that supernatural beings exist is 0%, while the chance that alien civilizations exist is hovering around 90%. >>
<< Then, since we've no way to predict the possibility that supernatural beings exist and we've no reason to believe that it's more than a figment of the imagination, the chance on this being the case is 0%. >>
Hmmm.... ok.... according to what you've stated, if I tell you that I have something in my hand that you cannot conceive of, and if you have no evidence to the contrary, then automatically the thing that I say I have in my hand cannot exist? 0% chance of its existance based on the fact that you can't conceive of it existing. That's a rather mighty ego you have going! I'm glad you can conceive of this BBS, or we wouldn't be able to post here.
<< The chance that alien life exists is at this moment 100%. >>
I like that! You believe in something being 100%. That's the right track! You believe in an absolute.... just start carrying it a little farther and you'll conceive that God IS.
<< Point is that the belief in something for which no evidence in any form of shape can be found is mere superstition and therefore highly illogical. I hope that even you are capable of comprehending this. >>
MAN... you do have quite an impressive ego! I guess you statement means that TONS of "scientific" theories have to be considered superstition because there wasn't (or isn't) any form of shape, eh? Pardon, could you please post a graphic of an authentic quantum string? How about a quick snapshot of an alternate universe? NO? Hmmm... ok.... how about just a single example of extraterrestrial life... any life.... a virus.... something even lower, I dont' care... ANYTHING! If you can't show "evidence in any form of shape", I guess you are admitting to being full of superstitions "and therefore highly illogical".
Dedpuhl,
Good post. Good research. You are, of course, correct about the Old Testement's view toward the legalities of slavery. I stand corrected. As for the New Testement and the convenant between God and His people, the subject of slavery is only spoken about with regard to CHRISTIANS who are slaves and how those CHRISTIANS should behave. Come to think of it... there may be a verse or two about masters and their treatment of slaves, but I can't bring them to mind at the moment.
Regarding Galileo, have you ever looked at what ANY scientist can go through with new discovery? Look at the life of Lious Pasteur... for decades, the MEDICAL AND SCIENTIFIC communities ridiculed him and scoffed at his ideas.... almost all of which were right! If those same men had been in positions of extreme power (such as the Catholic church way back when), they may have even imprisoned him or worse... we'll never know. Point is, it's not just Theists who mistreat those with new and different ideas. Another point is that the appology about Galileo was from the governing body of the Roman Catholic church. Your statement makes it look like it took the average Christian that long to know what was right and wrong. That's like blaming the average Chinese peasant for being in a Communist country.
About the cubits, could you tell me the measuring device the author was using when he measured the vessel? It would appear that it was written down from measurement and not calculation. Do you leave any room at all for something, which is reported as ancient historical text, to be very close but not absolute? If you watched the news, you would see that that World Trade Center towers were both an identical 110 Stories. But Tower 1 was 1,368 feet tall and tower two was 1,372 feet tall.... that's a four foot difference, but I've not once heard on the news that one was 110 Stories and the other was 110.3216374269005847953216374269 stories tall. Not even have I heard 110.3216, or even 110.3! For most people who aren't in the building trade and need absolutely exact construction details, 110 stories each is considered close enough. As it is with the basin in question.
Something that could actually further your argument, but I hold out as curiosity, is that we don't know what is meant by brim. How thick were the walls of the vessel? It could have been 10 cubits from inner edge to inner edge. Add in wall thickness and perhaps the measurement could have been 10.25 or 10.5 cubits. If this were so, trying to calculate pi from this would give us an even smaller value.
There is even more conjecture one could make. Was the vessel cylindrical or conical? At what height was the measurement taken? If it were even SLIGHTLY conical and the measurement was taken beneath that absolute top edge, then the 30 could be correct and accurate! We just don't know!
Joe
One can neither prove nor disprove the existance of supernatural beings.
Dude! You cannot prove that YOU exist (nor can any of us), so why do you think that everything else must be provable?
Joe
Dude! You cannot prove that YOU exist (nor can any of us), so why do you think that everything else must be provable?
Joe
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