What I love about america

theblackbox

Golden Member
Oct 1, 2004
1,650
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Reading through this forum, and going to other sites and places i've finally decided what it is i like about this country.

You have the right to say what you want, think what you want, and hate and villafy anyone you want as long as you do not harm anyone in the process.

As i have stated before, i am not republican/democrat, nor want to be, but my wife, who has been a democrat her whole life along with the rest of her family, changed and voted for bush this year. My wife is a veterinarian, which means she has more education then a lot of people as far as 4 years + 4years in at the university level. (lifetime students chasing after liberal arts degrees need not apply).
She voted for Bush. She felt that kerry was a poor choice for the democrats. The main thing, though she noticed is that when talking to one of her sisters, a democrat in virginia, and a textile chemist, she heard the word "hate" come from her sister at least 4 times, in direct usage against Bush. Not the policy of the bush administration, but against bush himself. She has since looked around and seen how other democrats are blaming the rest of the US for making the wrong decision, and that basically all the red states are too stupid to know what is right for them.
We talked about it and agree, it seems there is a lot of hate and venom in the democrats, and amongst liberals in general. Hatred of everything that America stands for, where people can become succesful through hard work, people can be accomplished, rich, and enjoy doing what they like. It seems, as she thought, and I have to say I feel these days after reading some posts, that some liberals are just out and out jealous. Either that they have not been able to be succesful, happy, or something.
They constantly lash out at the right, and honestly i find it humourous that these people take themselves serious as they say and type the things they do.

In my life, amazingly, after kerry lost, nothing changed in my life. I wasn't drafted (no fear of a draft), i maintained my income status, became neither richer or poorer although i have a feeling it will be a good year as other people spend their money our business is doing just as well.

The most entertaining thing i have seen is all the maps where the west coast and the northeast is combined with canada, and people are actually talking about going to canada...Makes me realize why people like that have never found success in life or are unhappy. It's because they always run away from challanges instead of face them. If you really think this country is going down the drain,it's because you have chiseled away the common bonds that keep america whole and have isolated yourselves.

The left imagines itself to be the better choice, the smarter choice, but all i see is elitetist snobbery that pawns itself off as pretentious. You poke fun and sling insults at the rest of america, stating they are the religious right or fundamendalists, when most of middle america is working class just trying to get by and succeed. My wife is an atheist, and she voted for bush.

The difference in education is because in the south and midwest, people are raised to do business and work, where i see in some places people go to college, stay in college, and stay away from that world of business.

I feel for our country, not for the policy and the choices our government makes, but i feel for the people that work so hard to make the country work, the people that care to make a differene instead of finding differences between all of the other americans.

I know what i say won't matter, both the leftand the right are embedded to fight, and full of hatred, but at least take the time to read what you write and see how ignorant you sometimes sound for the hate that you spew.

For claiming to be so smart, some of you guys act like idiots, and i pity US.

And I also think it is funny how everybody sits and says the world would have voted for kerry. I'm thankful that only americans are allowed to vote, because of all the places i have spent time in the world, i 1. do not want anybody outside america to make our policy, and 2. don't think they would help us when they can't help themselves. If you think the rest of the world is perfect, and their politics and people in better shape then ours, take a year off school and go find out for yourself.

I'm just glad that we all have the ability to say what we want no matter how stupid it sounds (some of you should understand that) and we do not have to worry about our lives or the lives of our family if we say what we believe, protest, carry a sign, or disagree in public.

I'm just sad that so many people are full of so much hate.

You call yourself progressives, but honesty, al i see is civility regressing when you spout your ideology of hate.

I used to be a liberal when i was managing editor for a college paper, byt once i got out into the real world, and got involved with making a living, i saw the light at the end of the tunnel.

and no matter what anyone else in the world thinks about me, i am an american, and i am proud of my country, my heritage, and the ability to live MY life,not someone elses.

I'm glad that i live in a country where the majority, wright or wrong, wins in an election, because i don't feel all my choices should ever be made by a minority, especially one that has portrayed itself as the everyman but spews hatred and tries to hide it's elite status that it so treasures.

And i know, i have used the word hate and hatred a lot in this post, but not directly at any one person, and if i did, it was accidental.

I love all americans, and am proud that we make up what america is, and welcome people from other countries into our fold.

the black box
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Nice read, and I did read it all.

However, you are right about one thing and wrong about another.

In my life, amazingly, after kerry lost, nothing changed in my life. I wasn't drafted (no fear of a draft), i maintained my income status, became neither richer or poorer although i have a feeling it will be a good year as other people spend their money our business is doing just as well.

I find that statement quite true, except for the part about the draft. Most people here will agree that there will be some sort of military conflict between Iran and the US in the next 4 years, and when that happens there will be a draft.
 

Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
8,911
1
0
You have the right to say what you want, think what you want, and hate and villafy anyone you want as long as you do not harm anyone in the process.

:thumbsup:
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,333
136
Good post, but I don't get your point. The Dems aren't solely to blame for partisan hate. As I recall all too clearly, it was the Pubs with their "Clinton is not my president" and "Don't blame me, I voted for Bush". And I'm sure such sentiments, on either side, existed long before then.

And while the ideologies expressed in "liberalism" and "conservatism" each have their appeals, neither side even remotely lives up to them when voted into office.

As I have said many times before, the problem with politics in America is that no one remembers what happened before the last election.
 

ntdz

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
6,989
0
0
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Nice read, and I did read it all.

However, you are right about one thing and wrong about another.

In my life, amazingly, after kerry lost, nothing changed in my life. I wasn't drafted (no fear of a draft), i maintained my income status, became neither richer or poorer although i have a feeling it will be a good year as other people spend their money our business is doing just as well.

I find that statement quite true, except for the part about the draft. Most people here will agree that there will be some sort of military conflict between Iran and the US in the next 4 years, and when that happens there will be a draft.

there wont be a draft.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,808
83
91
nice post, but they started it :p

I think the extreme right and left are equally as bad when it comes to hate. it's a shame that each side gets defined by their most extreme elements.
 

Caminetto

Senior member
Jul 29, 2001
821
49
91
Liked the post but - Please! I saw more hate coming from republicans during the Clinton administration than anything I could have ever imagined.
I know many, many people who dislike Bush but none have actual hate. I suggest going beyond judging America by using your family, friends, and those posting to this forum as a sampling. People at ATPN type outrageous thoughts and musings because they are behind a curtain of protection, and many more are very young and are not yet mature of intellect or emotion.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
You have the right to say what you want, think what you want, and hate and villafy anyone you want as long as you do not harm anyone in the process.

Not quite sure what is so impressive about that... you can do the same in many European countries as well... It seems like you are setting low standards from the US.

Do you think there is hate and jealousy on the part of conservatives too?

In my life, amazingly, after kerry lost, nothing changed in my life.
It's been what, a couple days?

Makes me realize why people like that have never found success in life or are unhappy. It's because they always run away from challanges instead of face them.
How do you know they are unsuccessful or unhappy?

The difference in education is because in the south and midwest, people are raised to do business and work, where i see in some places people go to college, stay in college, and stay away from that world of business.
Do you have ANY evidence to back this wild generalization up?

I'm just sad that so many people are full of so much hate.
Who are these people that are full of hate? Care to be specific? How do you know they are full of hate?

You call yourself progressives, but honesty, al i see is civility regressing when you spout your ideology of hate.
What does civility regresing have to do with people calling themselves progressives?

I used to be a liberal when i was managing editor for a college paper, byt once i got out into the real world, and got involved with making a living, i saw the light at the end of the tunnel.
And? Are you suggesting liberals don't make a living?

especially one that has portrayed itself as the everyman but spews hatred and tries to hide it's elite status that it so treasures.
When did the Kerry campaign spew hate?

And i know, i have used the word hate and hatred a lot in this post
Yes... yes YOU have.

Your post is a collection of assumptions and unsubstantiated claims.
 

theblackbox

Golden Member
Oct 1, 2004
1,650
11
81
Good post, but I don't get your point. The Dems aren't solely to blame for partisan hate. As I recall all too clearly, it was the Pubs with their "Clinton is not my president" and "Don't blame me, I voted for Bush". And I'm sure such sentiments, on either side, existed long before then.

I'm not saying there isn't the same hate on the other side, i've justwatched it become worse over the last 4 years.
I realize that it goes back, it goes back to the way the right handled clinton, and it just seems to be getting worse. I think it was deplorable how the republicans acted during clintons years, but just because one side did it does not make it right. A progressive should be above that, better then that, and should illustrate that in the way they handle themselves or their points.

I don't know if it is because of the media, or the fact the internet has just brought everyone so much closer and makes it easier to see because it is always in front of us.

It just wasn't as appearent until now. It just gets worse as every day goes by.
When people talk about US becoming a nation divided, it's the people that are making it that, and we seem to rely too much on the media, instead of finding everything out for ourselves. I think if we had the same media today back during jfk's presidency, it would be more like todays seperation.
 

theblackbox

Golden Member
Oct 1, 2004
1,650
11
81
Your post is a collection of assumptions and unsubstantiated claims.

Spending time debunking my opinion just further illustrates my post. You have taken several things, spun them to your liking and made no points. My post was not to link to news or articles, but to show what one person, with a college education, and an american thought and experienced personally.

Everything i have stated was as stated from personal experience. I do not speakfor every person in the US, but from what I have seen here, with family and with friends.
This is all from personal experience, and i don't rely on exit polls or need someone to tell me that i am wrong in my opinion or not backing my opinion.
Itis my opinion, and you have the right to disagree, just understand it is my opinion

 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
Originally posted by: theblackbox
Your post is a collection of assumptions and unsubstantiated claims.

Spending time debunking my opinion just further illustrates my post.

Everything i have stated was as stated from personal experience. I do not speakfor every person in the US, but from what I have seen here, with family and with friends.

What exactly does it illustrate? This is a forum to discuss politics and news. I responded to your post. You completely ignored my questions. It sounds like if someone disagrees with you they are "hateful."

 

r0tt3n1

Golden Member
Oct 16, 2001
1,086
0
0
Originally posted by: Vic
Good post, but I don't get your point. The Dems aren't solely to blame for partisan hate. As I recall all too clearly, it was the Pubs with their "Clinton is not my president" and "Don't blame me, I voted for Bush". And I'm sure such sentiments, on either side, existed long before then.

And while the ideologies expressed in "liberalism" and "conservatism" each have their appeals, neither side even remotely lives up to them when voted into office.

As I have said many times before, the problem with politics in America is that no one remembers what happened before the last election.


Thank goodness there is still a smart, even headed person around the P&N forum. That even has the courage to try and respond to and clarify some things for those less attuned to the situation. Something worth reading amongst the stinking piles of vitriol spewed by both `sides`. My philosophy, lurk and learn from those who know more (at least more than me) about the subject.
 

theblackbox

Golden Member
Oct 1, 2004
1,650
11
81
Do you think there is hate and jealousy on the part of conservatives too?


quote:

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In my life, amazingly, after kerry lost, nothing changed in my life.
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It's been what, a couple days?






quote:

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Makes me realize why people like that have never found success in life or are unhappy. It's because they always run away from challanges instead of face them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


How do you know they are unsuccessful or unhappy?

my wifes sister, the focus of the post. i can't keep track of everyone, but i believe there are posts on suicide rates and other things.



quote:

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The difference in education is because in the south and midwest, people are raised to do business and work, where i see in some places people go to college, stay in college, and stay away from that world of business.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Do you have ANY evidence to back this wild generalization up?


Ever work on a farm?


quote:

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I'm just sad that so many people are full of so much hate.
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Who are these people that are full of hate? Care to be specific? How do you know they are full of hate?


I will not name any names, just read posts in this forum, and in other places. My wifes sister is the focus of this post.

quote:

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You call yourself progressives, but honesty, al i see is civility regressing when you spout your ideology of hate.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


What does civility regresing have to do with people calling themselves progressives?

i would hope progressives put themselves on a higher level in society. I guess the gutter is good enough for everybody, but i always thought progression meant something.


quote:

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I used to be a liberal when i was managing editor for a college paper, byt once i got out into the real world, and got involved with making a living, i saw the light at the end of the tunnel.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


And? Are you suggesting liberals don't make a living?

i didn't, but i also didn't mention anyone else, you just spun that to what you wanted.


quote:

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especially one that has portrayed itself as the everyman but spews hatred and tries to hide it's elite status that it so treasures.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


When did the Kerry campaign spew hate?

did i mention the kerry campaqign in your quote. this was across the board, from moveon.org to michaelmoore and others.
kerry based his campaign on bush, not his adminstration but on bush himself. if you didn't see that, i'm sorry, but i also made no claims about repubs which were just as guilty, but the content of my post eluded you anyway, so what would it matter.


quote:

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And i know, i have used the word hate and hatred a lot in this post
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Yes... yes YOU have.

Your post is a collection of assumptions and unsubstantiated claims.

it may be, it's also my opinion. I have not nor tried to state anything i said as fact, so spin it how you will.
 

Pliablemoose

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
25,195
0
56
theblackbox, first off, I was living in fear you were another "the vote was stolen" loon, bless you for not being one.

Strong first post:thumbsup:
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
Originally posted by: theblackbox
my wifes sister, the focus of the post. i can't keep track of everyone, but i believe there are posts on suicide rates and other things.

Anecdotal evidence is not very convincing. The posts on the suicide rates were debunked and were baseless. I understand it's your opinion but some people rely on evidence in order to come to conclusions. Talking about one family member and a phony post about suicide isn't evidence.


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The difference in education is because in the south and midwest, people are raised to do business and work, where i see in some places people go to college, stay in college, and stay away from that world of business.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Do you have ANY evidence to back this wild generalization up?


Ever work on a farm?

Need some wood? (joke) I'm not sure how this question answers my question. If I answered yes, it would not prove that most people on the coasts stay in college and away from the world of business. If I answered no, it would not prove that most people on the coasts stay in college and away from teh world of business.

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I used to be a liberal when i was managing editor for a college paper, byt once i got out into the real world, and got involved with making a living, i saw the light at the end of the tunnel.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



And? Are you suggesting liberals don't make a living?

i didn't, but i also didn't mention anyone else, you just spun that to what you wanted.

Okay so if you're not suggesting liberals don't make a living, what was the point of you sharing that you saw the light when you got out into the real world? Did you really just state that without wanting anyone to draw conclusions?


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especially one that has portrayed itself as the everyman but spews hatred and tries to hide it's elite status that it so treasures.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


When did the Kerry campaign spew hate?

did i mention the kerry campaqign in your quote. this was across the board, from moveon.org to michaelmoore and others.

kerry based his campaign on bush, not his adminstration but on bush himself.

Where was the hate spewed from kerry and moveon.org and michaelmoore? You can't just allege people are full of hate and not back it up and be expected to be taken seriously. So if Kerry talked about Bush in his campaign that means he's hateful? Bush was the incumbent. Of course he was goign to talk about Bush.





 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,230
701
126
I agree...er....disagree....er....:)

(See, makes your post true...somewhat...maybe! ;) )

Oh, on the "Elite" comments I see all over this forum...

"This is an impressive crowd?the haves and the have mores. Some people call you the elite. I call you my base."

GWB

(They must be Bush supporters! :Q)
 

Rob9874

Diamond Member
Nov 7, 1999
3,314
1
0
Originally posted by: Infohawk

Your post is a collection of assumptions and unsubstantiated claims.

HA! As I was reading the OP, I thought to myself, "Infohawk and Red Dawn are going to have something to say about this one, those loudmouth liberal babies."
 

cwjerome

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2004
4,346
26
81
I think it's generally best if people just pretend Infohawk doesn't exist... if enough people ignore him he may find another place to harass people.

Anyone can pick apart someone's post sentence by sentence and demand evidence, clarification, and elaboration. We can do it to George Will, Thomas Friedman, Molly Ivans, Charles Krauthhammer, and anyone here at this site. Infohawk "grades" people's posts as if they were research papers- abundantly footnoted and full bibliography. It's a fools game... a troll trying his hardest to be a "respectable" troll. At least be consistant and do it with everyone, not just people you disagree with.

If someone like that is honest and sincere, an informal forum is not the place to be. Go read a copy of "Foreign Affairs." It's really disingenuous to decontruct a post like that... something only a manic obsessive would continuously do.
 

Mill

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
28,558
3
81
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Nice read, and I did read it all.

However, you are right about one thing and wrong about another.

In my life, amazingly, after kerry lost, nothing changed in my life. I wasn't drafted (no fear of a draft), i maintained my income status, became neither richer or poorer although i have a feeling it will be a good year as other people spend their money our business is doing just as well.

I find that statement quite true, except for the part about the draft. Most people here will agree that there will be some sort of military conflict between Iran and the US in the next 4 years, and when that happens there will be a draft.

No, most people do not agree with that.