What happens when a person with a gun is properly in place to stop a mass shooting?

[corwin]

Nope but dont be all butthurt that some people think police are better equiped at handling violent crime than private citizens with guns

Police are better at cleaning up the mess after one happens, those that are there before/during are the only real option to "handle" it...that is almost never the Police but will always include civilians, now if only more of them were armed we might have less victims

 

[lotus503]

Police are better at cleaning up the mess after one happens, those that are there before/during are the only real option to "handle" it...that is almost never the Police but will always include civilians, now if only more of them were armed we might have less victims

Your entitlted to your opinion

 

[HumblePie]

Nope but dont be all butthurt that some people think police are better equiped at handling violent crime than private citizens with guns

Which is a delusional myth to have. Just saying. Some cops would certainly be better, but any cop? nope. For all we know that cop could have been a meter maid and never had to take a single crisis training class in her life for the story. Or could have been a desk clerk. Or a cop with cyber crimes. Again, not a cop that deals with in the field crisis scenarios and wouldn't receive even informal training for it.

Many cops are detectives. They solve the crimes and send the enforcement beat cops to deal with the trash later. They rarely go through crisis scenarios either. Despite what hollywood and TV has shown the average american, what you see on TV is not the average cop.

 

[bignateyk]

I'm sure its been mentioned already, but there's a big difference between an off-duty cop and your average CCW holder.

Just look at what happened to Giffords. There was a guy with a CCW there and he almost shot the hero who stopped the killer.

 

[corwin]

I'm sure its been mentioned already, but there's a big difference between an off-duty cop and your average CCW holder.

Just look at what happened to Giffords. There was a guy with a CCW there and he almost shot the hero who stopped the killer.

Wow, you are absolutely right...a CCW holder showing good judgement in that situation is such a bad thing...hell look at the one who was at the mall shooting as well making what was probably the right decision at the time not to engage the shooter, my god, all these people with licenses to carry showing good judgement, maybe we should outlaw CC since they are such a nuisance

 

[bignateyk]

Wow, you are absolutely right...a CCW holder showing good judgement in that situation is such a bad thing...hell look at the one who was at the mall shooting as well making what was probably the right decision at the time not to engage the shooter, my god, all these people with licenses to carry showing good judgement, maybe we should outlaw CC since they are such a nuisance

I'm a gun owner and CCW holder, but I'm not buying the fantasy that a lot of gun nuts seem to have that they would swoop in and save the day. I think more often than not they would cause more harm than good. It takes zero skill to obtain a CCW. I certainly wouldn't trust any of them to hit a target near other people.

 

[lotus503]

Which is a delusional myth to have. Just saying. Some cops would certainly be better, but any cop? nope. For all we know that cop could have been a meter maid and never had to take a single crisis training class in her life for the story. Or could have been a desk clerk. Or a cop with cyber crimes. Again, not a cop that deals with in the field crisis scenarios and wouldn't receive even informal training for it.

Many cops are detectives. They solve the crimes and send the enforcement beat cops to deal with the trash later. They rarely go through crisis scenarios either. Despite what hollywood and TV has shown the average american, what you see on TV is not the average cop.

No its not a delusional myth to have, I am a gun owner, I know many many many gun owners, and with exception to a couple with previous special forces training I would take the average everyday cop vs. armed private citizens every day of the week, twice on Sundays.

And a big part of the reason is the qualifiers for owning a gun is very very very low, the qualifiers for being a cop is higher than owning a gun by nearly every measure.

To own a gun - No drug testing
To own a Gun - No Mental or psychological testing
To own a gun - Minimal background check
To own a gun - no professed duty to protect the public

I could go on but the criteria for being a cop is more stringent than owning a gun. You can argue shot grouping and ability to hit a target under stress all you want, but there is far more to than that.

 

[bignateyk]

No its not a delusional myth to have, I am a gun owner, I know many many many gun owners, and with exception to a couple with previous special forces training I would take the average everyday cop vs. armed private citizens every day of the week, twice on Sundays.

And a big part of the reason is the qualifiers for owning a gun is very very very low, the qualifiers for being a cop is higher than owning a gun by nearly every measure.

To own a gun - No drug testing
To own a Gun - No Mental or psychological testing
To own a gun - Minimal background check
To own a gun - no professed duty to protect the public

I could go on but the criteria for being a cop is more stringent than owning a gun. You can argue shot grouping and ability to hit a target under stress all you want, but there is far more to than that.

You forgot to mention:

To own a gun: No skills test necessary

 

[corwin]

I'm a gun owner and CCW holder, but I'm not buying the fantasy that a lot of gun nuts seem to have that they would swoop in and save the day. I think more often than not they would cause more harm than good. It takes zero skill to obtain a CCW. I certainly wouldn't trust any of them to hit a target near other people.

Then you are a paradox...if you think a CCW holder would cause more harm than good yet you are one doesn't really make any sense. Or maybe you're just a hypocrite like Feinstein, believing everyone else incompetent to have one yet you are the only one worthy and capable of it. Fact is cops have woefully inadequate firearms training a lot of the time as is evidenced by what happens when they have to shoot, with no statistics available it can't be proven but your average CCW holder is more likely to spend at least a day a month at the range, almost 50% of the cops who carry sidearms qualify 1-2 times a year.

 

[bignateyk]

Then you are a paradox...if you think a CCW holder would cause more harm than good yet you are one doesn't really make any sense. Or maybe you're just a hypocrite like Feinstein, believing everyone else incompetent to have one yet you are the only one worthy and capable of it. Fact is cops have woefully inadequate firearms training a lot of the time as is evidenced by what happens when they have to shoot, with no statistics available it can't be proven but your average CCW holder is more likely to spend at least a day a month at the range, almost 50% of the cops who carry sidearms qualify 1-2 times a year.

Sure it does. I own one for personal protection. I'm not gonna start shooting at someone in a crowd from a distance. I'm gonna shoot someone 3 feet in front of me.

Carrying for personal protection and carrying to protect society are two completely different things.

 

[xj0hnx]

Sure it does. I own one for personal protection. I'm not gonna start shooting at someone in a crowd from a distance. I'm gonna shoot someone 3 feet in front of me.

Carrying for personal protection and carrying to protect society are two completely different things.

Which as evidenced by a few instances mentioned so far, would be the normal reaction, which shows good judgment. Kind of defeating your own argument.

 

[lotus503]

Then you are a paradox...if you think a CCW holder would cause more harm than good yet you are one doesn't really make any sense. Or maybe you're just a hypocrite like Feinstein, believing everyone else incompetent to have one yet you are the only one worthy and capable of it. Fact is cops have woefully inadequate firearms training a lot of the time as is evidenced by what happens when they have to shoot, with no statistics available it can't be proven but your average CCW holder is more likely to spend at least a day a month at the range, almost 50% of the cops who carry sidearms qualify 1-2 times a year.

Your confusing the right to have a gun with the belief a CCW is going to be better in a situation than law enforcement.

 

[corwin]

Sure it does. I own one for personal protection. I'm not gonna start shooting at someone in a crowd from a distance. I'm gonna shoot someone 3 feet in front of me.

Carrying for personal protection and carrying to protect society are two completely different things.

So basically the same decision made by the other person you mentioned and the one in the mall as well...and since you don't hear about other licensees shooting into crowds it would seem that the majority also follow that same logic...hmm, what was your problem with others carrying again?

 

[corwin]

Your confusing the right to have a gun with the belief a CCW is going to be better in a situation than law enforcement.

And you're confusing everyday life with having a cop by your side all the time One is reality and the other is pure fantasy, the odds of a cop being there is slim, the odds of a CCW holder being there is growing, I think it's a good thing

A good guy with a gun, cop or CCW holder, is better at stopping a bad guy with a gun than calling 911 and hiding...I just acknowledge that a CCW holder is more likely to be present at the start of a situation than a cop

 

[bignateyk]

So basically the same decision made by the other person you mentioned and the one in the mall as well...and since you don't hear about other licensees shooting into crowds it would seem that the majority also follow that same logic...hmm, what was your problem with others carrying again?

I don't have a problem with it. I have a problem with the fantasy that pro-gun people try to use to justify increased ownership and no changes to current laws after mass shootings.

It should be more difficult to get a gun. Much more difficult.

 

[lotus503]

So basically the same decision made by the other person you mentioned and the one in the mall as well...and since you don't hear about other licensees shooting into crowds it would seem that the majority also follow that same logic...hmm, what was your problem with others carrying again?

He didnt state he had a problem with others carrying stop trying to obfuscate

 

[lotus503]

And you're confusing everyday life with having a cop by your side all the time One is reality and the other is pure fantasy, the odds of a cop being there is slim, the odds of a CCW holder being there is growing, I think it's a good thing

Thats not the discussion, my point continues to be, if given the choice Id rather have LEO than CCW in a dangerous situation.

If i'm at a mall and the choice is CCW and no LEO at all, i'd choose CCW.

 

[corwin]

I don't have a problem with it. I have a problem with the fantasy that pro-gun people try to use to justify increased ownership and no changes to current laws after mass shootings.

It should be more difficult to get a gun. Much more difficult.

Then change the constitution...mental health records should be more open and then current laws and checks would actually be able to work...making guns that look a certain way illegal will have no effect

 

[corwin]

Thats not the discussion, my point continues to be, if given the choice Id rather have LEO than CCW in a dangerous situation.

If i'm at a mall and the choice is CCW and no LEO at all, i'd choose CCW.

Well hell given the choice I'd rather have a Marine sniper than a LEO

Reality doesn't work that way though, so I'm voting for more CCW holders

 

[bignateyk]

Then change the constitution...mental health records should be more open and then current laws and checks would actually be able to work...making guns that look a certain way illegal will have no effect

I don't disagree with you there. There should be longer waiting periods, more strict background checks, mental health record checks, skills testing to get a CCW, etc...

 

[lotus503]

Then change the constitution...mental health records should be more open and then current laws and checks would actually be able to work...making guns that look a certain way illegal will have no effect

I agree with that

 

[lotus503]

Well hell given the choice I'd rather have a Marine sniper than a LEO

Reality doesn't work that way though, so I'm voting for more CCW holders

Thats fine I don't think More CCWs is bad, my point was simply id rather have LEO than CCW, and id too would rather have combat trained marine sniper than LEO.

 

[corwin]

I don't disagree with you there. There should be longer waiting periods, more strict background checks, mental health record checks, skills testing to get a CCW, etc...

Waiting periods have little effect, not many shootings happen right after a gun is purchased and none in recent memory at all...I'll agree with skill testing for CC, I really don't care for no license states, Texas has a decent enough requirement for skills testing to get licensed as well as a big background check, everywhere should be as thorough

 

[corwin]

Thats fine I don't think More CCWs is bad, my point was simply id rather have LEO than CCW, and id too would rather have combat trained marine sniper than LEO.

My experience with LEO's, many many of them, doesn't give me any confidence in them, and given the statistics of their shooting abilities doesn't either so it's not just personal opinion...CCW's on the other hand from personal experience are avid shooters with much better marksmanship skills, granted the statistics for use in real life situations is more limited but so far pretty damn good when used and even instances of good judgement not to...but in the end we don't really have a choice between LEO or CCW and the odds much favor having a CCW around which I am comfortable with

 

[lotus503]

My experience with LEO's, many many of them, doesn't give me any confidence in them, and given the statistics of their shooting abilities doesn't either so it's not just personal opinion...CCW's on the other hand from personal experience are avid shooters with much better marksmanship skills, granted the statistics for use in real life situations is more limited but so far pretty damn good when used and even instances of good judgement not to...but in the end we don't really have a choice between LEO or CCW and the odds much favor having a CCW around which I am comfortable with

and thats your opinion, personally I think there are many reasons outside of the ability to shoot to choose LEO.

I listed a bunch of things LEOs have over CCW a bit back regarding non shooting standards.