What happens to the old programmers?

[BladeVenom]

Ageism is far more prevalent in Silicon Valley....

It's time for him leave Silicon Valley.

 

[juiio]

I was never replaced. I choose my own path.

I said that you were replaceable, not that you were replaced.

And most projects are mindless, so if you're merely a programmer working for a company, you have no choice but to do mindless work.

Where you worked, maybe, but not at many companies.

Again, your experience doing something brain-dead-simple is in no way a representation of the real work that many programmers do.

 

[Mixolydian]

Again, your experience doing something brain-dead-simple is in no way a representation of the real work that many programmers do.

In order to find "real work", you'd have to look at blue-collar jobs.

 

[sze5003]

Not sure what type of programming some people do but writing a portfolio engine to calculate and balance clients financial simulations for 100 years or so in order to give advice and take in to effect proration and inflation, all different types of scenarios, is not mindless it takes a lot of brain work to guarantee 100% success rate for clients that invest their money in the in the company.

 

[postmortemIA]

Not sure what type of programming some people do but writing a portfolio engine to calculate and balance clients financial simulations for 100 years or so in order to give advice and take in to effect proration and inflation, all different types of scenarios, is not mindless it takes a lot of brain work to guarantee 100% success rate for clients that invest their money in the in the company.

bravo! You are the best programmer on this thread!

 

[Drako]

Old programmers retire, just like any other job.

 

[sze5003]

bravo! You are the best programmer on this thread!

Did I say I was? Absolutely not I don't even consider my self an expert. But to say it's mindless is a far stretch. Sure you can have some code that is repetitive and a monkey could do it for you but if it's mindless to you then your not being challenged enough.

Developing shouldn't be mindless, if it is your doing it wrong. If there is no challenge, then there's no interest, and then well, you can say it's mindless. If something doesn't seem interesting I could see how people would assume it mindless.

 

[Kaido]

This guys has been working for 20+ years and is unmarried. He should have saved enough money to retire, and yet he blew all his cash and is now getting evicted.

Only got himself to blame, and not "being old."

That was my first thought, too. Not to knock his situation, because I can sympathize, but you have to plan for the future. There are dozens of other fields that have this exact problem - look at sports, for example. Not many old guys out there in the NFL, you know?

 

[Markbnj]

Reality is, they're middle tier employees and not something you should be doing for over a decade.

Yeah, I pretty much thought you were a troll with the "mindless" comment, or at least someone who has never done any actual "mindless" work. You're both, obviously.

 

[Rakehellion]

Where you worked, maybe, but not at many companies.

No, it's the case at most companies.

What's the average programming job? Building a website? Tuning a database? Those are all bullshit.

People who get to design cybernetic implants and write video game engines are very few. Or maybe you have a different idea of what "mindless" is.

 

[Rakehellion]

Yeah, I pretty much thought you were a troll with the "mindless" comment, or at least someone who has never done any actual "mindless" work. You're both, obviously.

Another personal attack that doesn't address anything I said at all! Encore! I can't wait to see the next one!

 

[OverVolt]

Brutal world becoming more brutal? Say it isn't so (but it is).

Its not effecting me yet herp derp! *Surfs facebook*

My how reserved and level headed you are totally not affected by the situation at all... yet.

 

[OverVolt]

That was my first thought, too. Not to knock his situation, because I can sympathize, but you have to plan for the future. There are dozens of other fields that have this exact problem - look at sports, for example. Not many old guys out there in the NFL, you know?

When someone who gets concussions for a living can plan better for the future than you, that seems like a weakness that could use improvement. In this particular guys case, say, 20 years ago.

 

[jpiniero]

That was my first thought, too. Not to knock his situation, because I can sympathize, but you have to plan for the future. There are dozens of other fields that have this exact problem - look at sports, for example. Not many old guys out there in the NFL, you know?

His blog post mentions the problem. He made a million in the stock market by 2003, retired, and then at some later point lost most of it. Doesn't say when, but lets say after the 2008 crash. He then re-entered the job market at that point. Was underemployed for a few years and now has been unemployed for awhile. Also had some medical bills. Considering how expensive SV is, it'd be easy to think he could burn 200k over the 6 years even single.

 

[Murloc]

it's typical of programmers who don't get on with the times and keep doing the same stuff for years to end up in that situation.

What's the average programming job? Building a website? Tuning a database? Those are all bullshit.

People who get to design cybernetic implants and write video game engines are very few. Or maybe you have a different idea of what "mindless" is.

are you even serious?
There is a lot in-between stuff that you're leaving out on purpose to further your argument.

 

[BikeJunkie]

Yeah, I pretty much thought you were a troll with the "mindless" comment, or at least someone who has never done any actual "mindless" work. You're both, obviously.

You're being the same brand of troll he's being. You two deserve each other :biggrin:

 

[BikeJunkie]

I'm 36 and did the Manager and Project Manager things for a while, but it was just so dry and mundane (for me). The last FT/staff position I quit, I was told by my supervisor that I was "born for this kind of work" (managing developers), which was very flattering and very much appreciated. But, at the end of the day, if I'm going to be chained to a desk, I'm at least going to create something.

I'm back to consulting as an architect/team lead. I'm happier and making better money, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't worried about getting older in this field. I know I should find myself a cushy spot in upper management in the near future and ride it out until retirement, and I know the longer I wait to do that, the more difficult it will become. But right now, I know if I lose a gig, I can have another one lined up yesterday. That most definitely will not last more than another 5 years or so, and then my age will become a liability.

My current plan is to ride out my current work situation for another year or two and then take another run at hanging up my engineer hat and moving into a corner office. I'm not looking forward to it, but it's necessary in terms of career longevity.

 

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

These damn whipper-snappers with recent join dates are such a PITA...

 

[vshah]

The whole hiring thing in Silicon Valley is screwed up. Apparently they all have a secret understanding not to try and poach other companies programmers.

It's all moot. US programming jobs are flying to India. And they are flying coach.

They fly right back as soon as companies learn how terrible cheap Indian programmers are.

 

[BikeJunkie]

They fly right back as soon as companies learn how terrible cheap Indian programmers are.

This. If there's one thing I don't worry about being in the tech field, it's India/Indians. In fact, when I hear someone go on about how it's all going to India, I know anything else they say can be summarily dismissed because that's pure inexperience talking.

Do companies still try to outsource to India? Yes. Is that a decision that usually gets unwound ASAP? You bet. It hasn't concerned me since 2001 or so. In fact, that whole mess has such a bad rap that I see Indians having a hard time getting work here. Hate to paint with such a broad brush, but a lot of times you get the same half-assed cut-rate work from them here as you do overseas. Again, sorry to generalize, but that comes from years of experience as both a manager and developer.

 

[purbeast0]

No, it's the case at most companies.

What's the average programming job? Building a website? Tuning a database? Those are all bullshit.

People who get to design cybernetic implants and write video game engines are very few. Or maybe you have a different idea of what "mindless" is.

it is amusing how clueless you are about the industry, yet you claim to be doing "mindless" programming since you are 17 years old, yet you aren't a programmer. keep digging though it's fun to read.

 

[postmortemIA]

This. If there's one thing I don't worry about being in the tech field, it's India/Indians. In fact, when I hear someone go on about how it's all going to India, I know anything else they say can be summarily dismissed because that's pure inexperience talking.

Do companies still try to outsource to India? Yes. Is that a decision that usually gets unwound ASAP? You bet. It hasn't concerned me since 2001 or so. In fact, that whole mess has such a bad rap that I see Indians having a hard time getting work here. Hate to paint with such a broad brush, but a lot of times you get the same half-assed cut-rate work from them here as you do overseas. Again, sorry to generalize, but that comes from years of experience as both a manager and developer.

Very true, yet there is still some good-enough-always work left to outsource such as testing. I still see many companies trying hard to find something to outsource.

 

[BikeJunkie]

Very true, yet there is still some good-enough-always work left to outsource such as testing. I still see many companies trying hard to find something to outsource.

Yep - the last staff position I held (the one I mentioned earlier) had a huge QA department that was 100% Indian.

I really don't want to sound like I have something against Indians - they're nice people - but there just seems to be something about their culture, education system, or whatever that fails to instill an attention to detail or an appreciation for scalability/maintainability/performance. Basically, there's a very pervasive mindset that "it works right now at this very precise moment in time, so it's good to go."

 

[sze5003]

Yep - the last staff position I held (the one I mentioned earlier) had a huge QA department that was 100% Indian.

I really don't want to sound like I have something against Indians - they're nice people - but there just seems to be something about their culture, education system, or whatever that fails to instill an attention to detail or an appreciation for scalability/maintainability/performance. Basically, there's a very pervasive mindset that "it works right now at this very precise moment in time, so it's good to go."

Some of them are pretty smart but I've also noticed they can be pretty lazy or refuse to want to do some quality things when it comes to development.

 

[Rakehellion]

are you even serious?
There is a lot in-between stuff that you're leaving out on purpose to further your argument.

I'm leaving out a lot of stuff because it's impossible to name every programming job in existence in this thread. But if it's in between, then that would make it just sort of mindless, wouldn't it?