What happens to the old programmers?

[sze5003]

It's tough finding a job where you develop exactly what you like. That's why most people don't like to do it. I don't mind it because you learn from it. But there are always other software opportunities out there.

 

[Cerb]

I don't think I'd like programming what other people wanted unless I found it interesting also. I like making tools that make my life easier. I don't care much about your life unless I have to witness you doing something by a fucked up method an easy program would fix :^D

That's why I don't do it as my job, anymore (though I'm getting suckered into doing it part-time, in the near future, it looks like ). I liked my clients, they liked my work, I did the work, and it wasn't mindless (it should have been, but I came in to handling unstable systems, written horribly, and had to reverse-engineer how they were intended to work, to be able to fix anything), but I just grew apathetic towards it.

 

[Fox5]

In my experience, you're not "just a programmer." Programming is one of your tasks, just like producing documents or answering emails.

Most jobs expect people who do other things to also program, companies want generalists, not specialists.

 

[irishScott]

In my experience, you're not "just a programmer." Programming is one of your tasks, just like producing documents or answering emails.

Most jobs expect people who do other things to also program, companies want generalists, not specialists.

Being able to answer emails and write decent reports/memos is "generalist" now? I'm a goddamn millennial and even to me that stuff is to a job as air conditioning and FM radio are to a car. Anyone who can't produce a decent technical report or answer an email properly has no business in a white collar job IMO. Hey here's hoping you're right, makes me that much more competitive.

A "generalist" in my mind would be someone who develops part time and manages IT part time, or some of those other weird arrangements most often found in small businesses that have less structure by necessity. For most companies I've heard of, if they hire you to write software you write software.

 

[drebo]

This is why, when I had the choice, I opted to go into network engineering. It's kind of like programming, in a way, but it's really, really difficult to be good at it.

Unfortunately, more like programming, it's also really easy to be awful at it and make everyone think you're a genius.

 

[Fox5]

Being able to answer emails and write decent reports/memos is "generalist" now? I'm a goddamn millennial and even to me that stuff is to a job as air conditioning and FM radio are to a car. Anyone who can't produce a decent technical report or answer an email properly has no business in a white collar job IMO. Hey here's hoping you're right, makes me that much more competitive.

A "generalist" in my mind would be someone who develops part time and manages IT part time, or some of those other weird arrangements most often found in small businesses that have less structure by necessity. For most companies I've heard of, if they hire you to write software you write software.

More so, I find that developers are expected to do all parts of the software development life cycle. You need to do design, planning, speak to customers, translate requirements, and so on. Even in the more physical engineering professions, you still need to know how to program. The point I'm trying to make is that knowing how to code is no longer a unique skill. It's just another skill you're expected to have to do your job.

This is especially true at small companies, but I've found that it's true at a lot of large companies as well.

 

[slag]

Programming is one step above tech support. You really shouldn't be doing ti past age 26. Either get a job at Best Buy or get your PhD in math so you can find a senior level position.

Entry level java programming is at least a few steps above tech support. Senior level java programmers are worth their weight in gold.

Tech support -> Microsoft sysadmin -> jr unix admin -> associate java programmer -> blah blah blah..

The good java programmers, the ones in their mid to late 30's, are very valuable.

I'm a system admin for java infrastructure and don't want the SR. Level position. I'm comfortable in my job and don't want the extended hours that would accompany a sr level position. I work 40 + hours a week as it is and that barely leaves me enough family time, let alone enough me time to unwind and do my hobbies.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

1) I plan on going into software management within 10 years.
2) I don't care who you are. Tech will evolve and at some point you will be left behind. Keep up or you are done.

I'd rather just be a manager. Then knowing the tech isn't my problem. my problem is hiring those that know the tech and firing those that don't. Pretty easy (and high paying) position to be in.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

1) I plan on going into software management within 10 years.
2) I don't care who you are. Tech will evolve and at some point you will be left behind. Keep up or you are done.

I'd rather just be a manager. Then knowing the tech isn't my problem. my problem is hiring those that know the tech and firing those that don't. Pretty easy (and high paying) position to be in.

That's probably the best strategy. Reluctantly, I'm forced to conclude that my earlier thoughts about moving into project management were correct and I need to work towards it. I love tech and tinkering with it, but I am getting older and at some point want off the tech treadmill at least in terms of a job.

 

[Markbnj]

That's probably the best strategy. Reluctantly, I'm forced to conclude that my earlier thoughts about moving into project management were correct and I need to work towards it. I love tech and tinkering with it, but I am getting older and at some point want off the tech treadmill at least in terms of a job.

It's funny, buy none of the people I consider my peers view it as a treadmill. I think if you do then that's a really good indication that it isn't what you should be doing long term.

I think of writing software as a craft, and in any craft an active and engaged craftsman is always learning new techniques and approaches, while maintaining contact with traditional fundamentals. I think that pretty aptly describes the practice of writing software, or the practice of making furniture. If technology stood still it would be a much more boring way to make a living.

 

[sze5003]

My managers have no idea what we do technically. I do a weekly report to my manager and she's mostly interested in the code metrics and the overall picture of the project rather than why or how something does or doesn't work. With this view, it's hard to be promoted because middle managers have to report to upper managers and prove you are adequate for a promotion. But half the time neither of them know how hard you are working let alone what you are working on so it takes forever. When I had a technical manager, it was easier because they understood any problems I had, knew what was going on and knew when I was doing a good job.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

It's funny, buy none of the people I consider my peers view it as a treadmill. I think if you do then that's a really good indication that it isn't what you should be doing long term.

I think of writing software as a craft, and in any craft an active and engaged craftsman is always learning new techniques and approaches, while maintaining contact with traditional fundamentals. I think that pretty aptly describes the practice of writing software, or the practice of making furniture. If technology stood still it would be a much more boring way to make a living.

True but more and more companies cut back on training. I'm a geek at heart and love to putz around with new tech at home, but it does get tiring at work when you have to learn everything on your own time.

 

[Markbnj]

True but more and more companies cut back on training. I'm a geek at heart and love to putz around with new tech at home, but it does get tiring at work when you have to learn everything on your own time.

Yeah, that's one of the ways corporate development practices really burn out potentially good programmers. I've almost always worked for small startups, consultancies, or myself. I had one experience in a mid-size public company and I got out as quickly as I could. Layers and layers of uselessness all around. But here we get off into an area where I'm a complete contrarian, because I think 95% of the companies that develop software simply shouldn't.

 

[BurnItDwn]

On my team, there's 2 guys over 60, and a woman in her late 50s. This is a team with 10 employees, 5 or 6 on shore contractors, and then like 20 off shore contractors.

The two guys over 60 have TONS of wisdom/experience and are huge help as far as helping to smooth out projects and releases and preventing or fixing production emergency type situations.

 

[Aikouka]

That's probably the best strategy. Reluctantly, I'm forced to conclude that my earlier thoughts about moving into project management were correct and I need to work towards it. I love tech and tinkering with it, but I am getting older and at some point want off the tech treadmill at least in terms of a job.

I've been asked before if I'm interested in switching to a leadership role, but all that means is that I go to more meetings, waste time on metrics, and don't get to develop or design. In other words, it takes any fun that exists out of work!

 

[MrPickins]

All of those things require writing code. If you want to get your feet wet in semantics to prove a point that doesn't exist, go right ahead.

Semantics?

lol.

You stated that those were average programming jobs, a completely incorrect statement.

But, that's fine; deflect some more. :biggrin:

 

[Markbnj]

I've been asked before if I'm interested in switching to a leadership role, but all that means is that I go to more meetings, waste time on metrics, and don't get to develop or design. In other words, it takes any fun that exists out of work!

Exactly. I always wanted to be that gray-hair with the pony-tail manning a console at mission control... but since I wasn't smart enough for that (and my hair looks like shit when it gets long) I settled for being an old programmer.

 

[OverVolt]

Same thing that happened to old TV repairmen.