What happens to the old programmers?

[Rakehellion]

you can easily be a senior level programmer without getting a phd in math...

Clearly he can't.

i also didn't realize that tech support jobs were so easy to find making well over 100k/yr.

The guy's homeless. He'd be lucky to make $28k.

 

[Rakehellion]

I'm not sure if that's a call-out, but fortunately I don't care. I'm not a mod in this forum. Your comment was ignorant and silly, but that's no great crime in OT. You're forgiven.

Quoting your post in a thread you participated in is not a callout.

Saying I have a call center job because I made the comment that programming is not a glamorous field is pretty silly as well.

 

[DAGTA]

Programming is one step above tech support. You really shouldn't be doing ti past age 26. Either get a job at Best Buy or get your PhD in math so you can find a senior level position.

You're either joking or very unaware of the development field.

 

[tfinch2]

Programming is one step above tech support. You really shouldn't be doing ti past age 26. Either get a job at Best Buy or get your PhD in math so you can find a senior level position.

I'll take one step above tech support for my six figure salary (not in Bay Area/NY) doing a job I love.

 

[Rakehellion]

You're either joking or very unaware of the development field.

Half joking. I've been a programmer since I was 17. It's mindless busy work. If you aren't creating your own projects and directing other programmers, you're eminently replaceable.

 

[Rakehellion]

I'll take one step above tech support for my six figure salary (not in Bay Area/NY) doing a job I love.

That's fine. But I don't want someone else telling me how much money I can make.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Their memory is freed up until it is needed again.

 

[postmortemIA]

Half joking. I've been a programmer since I was 17. It's mindless busy work. If you aren't creating your own projects and directing other programmers, you're eminently replaceable.

True, that is also why most of senior programmers are employed and collecting big bucks: they have advanced well beyond entry or experienced level.
Nothing wrong with want to be programmer and not manager, I know lots of these, and they usually are asked to design the major stuff or solve major problems.

 

[purbeast0]

Half joking. I've been a programmer since I was 17. It's mindless busy work. If you aren't creating your own projects and directing other programmers, you're eminently replaceable.

if you are making just over what tech support makes then you are terrible at your job and a terrible programmer.

 

[88keys]

What happens is that when you get old your brain turns to mush and you reach a point when you are virtually unable to learn new things and adapt to new ways of doing things.

This is why most companies don't want to hire old people.

 

[Rakehellion]

if you are making just over what tech support makes then you are terrible at your job and a terrible programmer.

I'm not a programmer anymore and I never said anything about how much I make. With your reading comprehension, I'm sure there's a "3" next to the title on your ID badge.

 

[Markbnj]

Half joking. I've been a programmer since I was 17. It's mindless busy work. If you aren't creating your own projects and directing other programmers, you're eminently replaceable.

Yeah, you're not good at this, and you should definitely be doing something else. Seriously, man, if you can make a statement like that and mean it, you're not only bad at software, you're dangerously bad at it. I hope you don't work in anything more consequential than writing conference room scheduling apps in VB.

Edit: I see your statement above about not being a programmer. Despite the apparent conflict with your earlier statement, my main thought is "Good."

 

[Rakehellion]

Yeah, you're not good at this, and you should definitely be doing something else. Seriously, man, if you can make a statement like that and mean it, you're not only bad at software, you're dangerously bad at it. I hope you don't work in anything more consequential than writing conference room scheduling apps in VB.

Edit: I see your statement above about not being a programmer. Despite the apparent conflict with your earlier statement, my main thought is "Good."

Okay, I get it already. You think programmers are the greatest thing ever and any statement to the contrary threatens the very fiber of your being. Your angry, hyperbolic statements about my current vocation have shown me the error of my ways and I'm planning to turn my life around.

Reality is, they're middle tier employees and not something you should be doing for over a decade.

 

[purbeast0]

I'm not a programmer anymore and I never said anything about how much I make. With your reading comprehension, I'm sure there's a "3" next to the title on your ID badge.

so you've been a programmer since you are 17 but you aren't a programmer anymore. gotcha.

so what are you, like 15 or 16?

 

[Rakehellion]

so what are you, like 15 or 16?

That's a great argument. I'm using that one.

 

[CPA]

Youth oriented tech companies with no tangible way of making money like to hire naive young brogrammers. News at 11.

This. Real companies (ie Fortune 500)don't have this issue. We have a tech department that is part of our shared services organization. 2 of the 8 staff are over 60, 2 others are over 50. The Director is mid-40's.

 

[88keys]

Either get a job at Best Buy or get your PhD in math so you can find a senior level position.

This. The guy has 35 years of experience, so you have to wonder why he got fired from his last job.

Half joking. I've been a programmer since I was 17. It's mindless busy work. If you aren't creating your own projects and directing other programmers, you're eminently replaceable.

Based on what you've said so far, I'd say that you have no real world experience. The fact is that you can be let go from a company after 35 years for any reason or none at all. Doesn't mean he did anything wrong. Despite what you think; everyone and anyone is expendable. What you do for an employer may be valuable and they may even be worse off without you, but it won't stop them from letting you go if they feel they need to do so.

I don't know much about programming beyond making a batch file which I haven't done in years (not even sure if that qualifies TBH), but I doubt that it's as simple as getting a PHD in math to get ahead or anywhere near as simple as you describe. Companies place employees where they are needed. If you're just filling a hole, then you should expect to be delegated to simpler tasks making a low wage. If you have skills, talent, ambition, etc. You'll move to a higher position. Granted there are exceptions to every rule and thats really only true up until a certain level. At which point inter workplace politics and many other factors start coming into play.

 

[jpiniero]

This guys has been working for 20+ years and is unmarried. He should have saved enough money to retire, and yet he blew all his cash and is now getting evicted.

Only got himself to blame, and not "being old."

Considering how expensive SV is, I'm surprised this isn't happening more often, esp considering the ageism. Perhaps most people move out before their finances get real bad. You could burn through a ton of money there even being single.

It's all moot. US programming jobs are flying to India. And they are flying coach.

This is true. But holy cow is the software created there terrible... if the internal apps I've used that were obviously developed there are any indication.

 

[JManInPhoenix]

everyone and anyone is expendable. What you do for an employer may be valuable and they may even be worse off without you, but it won't stop them from letting you go if they feel they need to do so.

True that.

 

[Rakehellion]

The fact is that you can be let go from a company after 35 years for any reason or none at all.

The article conveniently neglects to mention his specific case.

everyone and anyone is expendable.

Some more so than others. Certainly if 20 other people have your same job title.

I don't know much about programming beyond making a batch file which I haven't done in years (not even sure if that qualifies TBH), but I doubt that it's as simple as getting a PHD in math to get ahead or anywhere near as simple as you describe. Companies place employees where they are needed. If you're just filling a hole, then you should expect to be delegated to simpler tasks making a low wage. If you have skills, talent, ambition, etc. You'll move to a higher position. Granted there are exceptions to every rule and thats really only true up until a certain level. At which point inter workplace politics and many other factors start coming into play.

In the internet age, you can be a freelancer from the comfort of your bed or maybe just have your position shipped to India. I kind of wonder how a guy with 35 years in the business can't get a job somewhere.

You don't get a PhD to become a programmer. Researchers are a little less expendable.

You can do freelance

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Old programmers don't die, they just transfer to Sustaining.

Of course, if they're smart they say "eff it" and do indie app development.

 

[Ken g6]

Old programmers don't die, they just transfer to Sustaining.

This thread needs more humor.

http://hritcu.wordpress.com/2006/03/01/old-programmers-never-die/

 

[sze5003]

I don't think programming is one step above tech support. I've been programming at my company for 3 years now and also have about 2 years or more from previous company plus whatever projects I did in school. Learn a new language, stay up to date on tech interview questions, algorithms, traveling salesman question they ask at most companies, so on. You can make good money.

At my company it's a fortune 500 company and they never laid anyone off they just let contractors go. Moving up is hard and I'm no longer doing entry level work, more like middle and senior level for the most part. They don't pay so well but they pay more than my buddies make and have a great medical/401k package.

My company recently said they would outsource smaller projects to India and a lot of the older people got really worried because they would no longer be able to skate through the day or they will have to learn a new function.

We have a lot of older programmers and they are fine, but most of the hiring is either through contractors or younger people.

Doesn't matter if you are old or young if you are able to nail those tech questions at the interview you will get the job.

A contractor friend of mine is a decent programmer when he worked with us but he was a bit lazy, didn't do his sonar analysis, would ask me to do his junits for him, he just chose to not renew his contract and got a job in Manhattan for Yahoo.

He was going to get paid more at another company but he wanted yahoo on his resume.

He was really good with technical questions, and told me that's all it really takes to get in.

 

[juiio]

Half joking. I've been a programmer since I was 17. It's mindless busy work. If you aren't creating your own projects and directing other programmers, you're eminently replaceable.

You were easily replaceable because you were doing mindless work, not because you were a programmer. Work on challenging projects. Your experience doing something brain-dead-simple is in no way a representation of the real work that many programmers do.

 

[Rakehellion]

You were easily replaceable because you were doing mindless work, not because you were a programmer. Work on challenging projects. Your experience doing something brain-dead-simple is in no way a representation of the real work that many programmers do.

I was never replaced. I choose my own path.

And most projects are mindless, so if you're merely a programmer working for a company, you have no choice but to do mindless work.