What Happens if the U.S. Uses the Veto on Palestine?

[EagleKeeper]

In other words, EK wants to discuss only the problems of the Palestinians, without discussing the fairness issues of the Israelis.

But EK ignores the fact that the EU, came out on the side of an Palestinian State in a change of position. In other words EK, its Israeli behavior that more disgusts the EU. As your Bozo Netanyuhu decision to announce 1100 housing units in disputed East Jerusalem may have finally alienated the EU in a big way.

Tell us again EK, why the EU unanimously voting for a Palestinian State is the fault of the Palestinians. And its an EU endorsement of Israeli government behavior.

Of course the EU vote makes certain security guarantees to Israel to prevent aggression by the Pals into Israel. But once the Pals get their own State, why should we assume the Pals are only motivated by only revenge when they will finally be free to build their own country and build their own economy, a right denied them for 63 years?

Nothing is wrong with a Palestinian state. As long as the Palestinians choose to live side by side with Israel.
Up to this point; they have aptly demonstrated that they do not want to.

Do you really believe that the EU statement will change the way the Palestinian people act toward Israel?

 

[Lemon law]

As EK repeats the tired and false Israeli propaganda line. Nothing is wrong with a Palestinian state. As long as the Palestinians choose to live side by side with Israel.
Up to this point; they have aptly demonstrated that they do not want to. "

Earth to EK,the Pals don't speak with one unified voice any more than the Israelis do.
But Abbas is doing sets a better standard of behavior than Netanyuhu and an overwhelming majority of Palestinians do want a state. But Israel will still have to face things like the right to return and all kinds of land swaps.

 

[chucky2]

LL, I'm going to laugh when the "Palestinian's" finally get a state, they then F with Israel, and Israel rolls right over that new state (and whoever is dumb enough to try and come bail the "Palestinian's" out).

 

[EagleKeeper]

So Israel should just accept the hostility of the Palestinians that want to destroy Israel without saying/doing anything.

Abbas is not the elected leader of the Palestinians.
You are ignoring the question - will the Palestinians change their attitude because of the EU.

OR will it still be the same; causing Israel to react as she has always?

The Palestinians control their destiny - up to this point; they have exibited a lousy job of direction

 

[Lemon law]

When the Palestinian have their own state instead of being jailed in Israeli concentration camps, they will be far better off.

Will every Israeli and Palestinian live in peace after a State is declared? That answer is no because there are always extremists nuts even in the United States. Nor will it solve all Israeli problems. Palestinians are not the only entity unhappy with Israel. And that type of Stateless terrorists would achieve its goals by getting Israel to retaliate against an innocent nation.

But the fact is and remains, the Lack of a Palestinians state makes Israel totally unacceptable to all its neighbors. And now that the Israeli arms embargo is now defacto dead as well as Israeli restrictions on the Palestinian economies, Gaza and the West Bank are far more likely to become armed camps without a Palestinian State.

But it may be the Palestinian in the West Bank and East Jerusalem that need protection from Crazed and violent Israeli settler party members that right now are on a rampage in the West Bank.

 

[EagleKeeper]

When the Palestinian have their own state instead of being jailed in Israeli concentration camps, they will be far better off.

Will every Israeli and Palestinian live in peace after a State is declared? That answer is no because there are always extremists nuts even in the United States. Nor will it solve all Israeli problems. Palestinians are not the only entity unhappy with Israel. And that type of Stateless terrorists would achieve its goals by getting Israel to retaliate against an innocent nation.

But the fact is and remains, the Lack of a Palestinians state makes Israel totally unacceptable to all its neighbors. And now that the Israeli arms embargo is now defacto dead as well as Israeli restrictions on the Palestinian economies, Gaza and the West Bank are far more likely to become armed camps without a Palestinian State.

But it may be the Palestinian in the West Bank and East Jerusalem that need protection from Crazed and violent Israeli settler party members that right now are on a rampage in the West Bank.

Where do you get the information regarding what I bolded in your previous statement.

Egypt and Jordan do not care a wit about the Palestinians.

Had Egypt cared; they would not have sealed off Gaza in the beginning and kept is sealed.

Jordan tolerated the Palestinians to the point that they wanted control of the West Bank. Now that they have no shot at control and the Palestinians tried to over through the Jordanian government previously; the Palestinians are not desired in Jordan.

Syria has no Palestinian presence; they tolerate the leadership of Hamas and Hezbollah because they are a thorn in Israel's side.

Lebanon has been taken over by Hezbollah which has in it's charter the destruction of Israel; They themselves are not Palestinians; those were chased out along with Arafat.

Then you state that the arms embargo is dead. Egypt learned the hard way thew problems that when arms are let into Gaza, the unintended consequences of such actions. Who else is running the embargo. Even Iran did not dare to. Your all mighty Turkish armada has yet to still make a presence.

It is not the amount of arms in the West Bank and Gaza; it is what the people choose to do with them. With Gaza it is also what is done with the government's blessing.

LL, you make all these all knowing statements about the ME.

Have you ever been there or within recent times talked with multiple average people from that region to listen and understand their feelings toward the Palestinians.

 

[Lemon law]

Where do you get the information regarding what I bolded in your previous statement.

Egypt and Jordan do not care a wit about the Palestinians.

Had Egypt cared; they would not have sealed off Gaza in the beginning and kept is sealed.

Jordan tolerated the Palestinians to the point that they wanted control of the West Bank. Now that they have no shot at control and the Palestinians tried to over through the Jordanian government previously; the Palestinians are not desired in Jordan.

Syria has no Palestinian presence; they tolerate the leadership of Hamas and Hezbollah because they are a thorn in Israel's side.

Lebanon has been taken over by Hezbollah which has in it's charter the destruction of Israel; They themselves are not Palestinians; those were chased out along with Arafat.

Then you state that the arms embargo is dead. Egypt learned the hard way thew problems that when arms are let into Gaza, the unintended consequences of such actions. Who else is running the embargo. Even Iran did not dare to. Your all mighty Turkish armada has yet to still make a presence.

It is not the amount of arms in the West Bank and Gaza; it is what the people choose to do with them. With Gaza it is also what is done with the government's blessing.

LL, you make all these all knowing statements about the ME.

Have you ever been there or within recent times talked with multiple average people from that region to listen and understand their feelings toward the Palestinians.

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Again EK, you have zero understanding of why Arab States do not assimilate Palestinian refugees that originated from what is now the 1948 and 1973 borders of the State of Israel. BECAUSE THE ARAB STATES CORRECTLY MAINTAIN, SINCE THOSE REFUGESS ORIGINALLY CAME FROM ISRAEL , IT IS AN ISRAELI RESPONSIBILITY NOT TO BE FOISTED OFF ON ARAB STATES.

Nor are you correct about Syria, there are some 500,000 Palestinians inside Syria.

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/3580.htm

As for the Israeli military and economic blockade of Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank, the Jordanians and the Egyptians are now totally disgusted with Israel and are extremely likely to withdraw from those 1980 agreements for Israeli breech of contract. And also to keep solidarity with the Arab League.

But getting back to Syria, the Assad government is in serious Arab and international deep doo doo and is extremely unlikely to survive. Embargo Already Turkey now enforces an Arms embargo against Assad, as international sanctions are starting to bite. As for Lebanon, its been improving the Status of Palestinians still in Lebanon for at least a year while Turkey calls for an international sanctions against Israel.

In short, EK, you and Israel are living in the past while the entire mid-east neighborhood is rapidly changing.

 

[EagleKeeper]

I was mistaken about Syria. :wub:

Those refugees came from Israel after siding with the wrong side in 4 different conflicts. They chose a side that lost. They wanted it all and got nothing as a result. The Arab countries do not like such a reminder.
In other words; instead of extending a helping hand; they chose to make the Palestinians suffer. Brotherly love.

It is more that the Egyptians and Jordanians do not like the Palestinians. This comes from my direct exposure over the past 2 years with people from those countries that travel back and forth.

Part is that the Palestinians remind them on mistakes and loss of prestige against Israel. A second is that the Palestinians have an attitude of they are the martyrs and should be respected as such.

The neighborhood is changing; but the filth and trash still remain; a new coat of pain is being slapped onto the old rotting walls.

What actually has changed in Egypt?
Nothing has happened yet in Syria
Lebanon has not changed.
Jordan is not changing much.
Iraq - new name; same attitude
Turkey - change for what?
Saudi - what change
Iran - what change
Libya - to soon to tell
Tunisia - to soon to tell - impact on ME is negligible
What other Arab players are in the game.

Your embargo wishes will happen only when someone decides to break the embargo. This is not happening.

When the Palestinians come to the table without preconditions and being a puppet; then something will start to evolve. Not until then.

Keep Hamas, right of return and settlements up front and nothing moves except more Israel settlements and buildings.

The more the Palestinians jump to their masters, the more that they are being hurt.

 

[Lemon law]

EK, In all your list of nothing has changed, you forget Israel that has ha even less change than any of our long list. And you also fail to mention, that 17 months ago Israel had some friendly ties to Egypt, Jordan, and Turkey and that is not true today.

As for Netanyuhu and Germany, the single best ally of Israeli in the EU, ole Angela Merkel cussed Netanyuhu up one side and down the other for announcing 1100 housing units in disputed East Jerusalem this morning. The Quartet plan clearly stated neither side do anything "provocative", which is what Bozo Netanyuhu promptly did.

As for your vaunted Egyptian blockade, its been leaking for over six months now and after upcoming Egyptian elections, I doubt Washington can buy Egyptian support for only 2 cents per citizen per day.

Its Israel that better worry, AIPAC may currently enjoy some American support, but at the rate Israel unreality is going, the US price in diplomatic isolation will become too high, regardless if a dimocrat or a republirat becomes POTUS in 11/2012.

 

[Lemon law]

As a TalonStrike OP thread may be drawing to a close, its may be time to say no one can accurately predict what the future holds for the Israeli Palestinian conflict. As events proceed with the speed of a snail to everyone's frustration.

I have a great deal of respect for EK as a forceful advocate for his side, but sadly almost all threads on this topic degenerate into pissing contests. And as one after another threads on the subject predicts conflicting versions of future events that have not yet happened, we all have to wonder what good it will do have future threads on the subject ahead of any real progress that still proceeds at a glacially slow pace.

But still events and progress towards a Palestinian State happens daily, today's main events concern the Netanyuhu decision to announce 1100 Israeli housing units in disputed East Jerusalem, and who knows what next week will bring? And when another thread on the subject should be started?