What Happens if the U.S. Uses the Veto on Palestine?

[woolfe9999]

I don't support the decision to go ahead with the construction, but I can't support the Pals making a freeze a precondition for negotiations. They can make that a demand within the process of negotiation. They don't need to set any preconditions for sitting down at the table. Asking that demands be met before negotiation takes place rarely results in any sort of progress. It doesn't seem like either side is really that interested in a deal right now.

I feel like Abbas is going through all this at the UN not only to isolate Israel, but also to increase his popularity and provide himself with leverage in any power share agreement with Hamas. It's probably a politically savvy strategy for him but it isn't going to get us any closer to a peace deal.

 

[rchiu]

The better question is why does US have to veto anything? Why does US have to take the leads in making this critical decision.

First, isn't this something between Palestine and Israel, and second, even if someone else have to get involve, isn't it UN business?

Why does the US have to make this decision for everyone, and suffer the criticism (or worse, terrorist attacks) if things don't work out? US can simply abstain or follow the consensus amongst UN member countries.

I say it's time to leave Palestine and Israel alone and let them figure things out. If they want to kill each other in the millions, let them have the blood on their hand.

 

[Freshgeardude]

The better question is why does US have to veto anything? Why does US have to take the leads in making this critical decision.

because, typically, countries support their allies.

First, isn't this something between Palestine and Israel, and second, even if someone else have to get involve, isn't it UN business?

its not the UN's business. this is merely a PR stunt by the PA because even if they get a state recognition in the UN, Hamas will never agree to anything

Why does the US have to make this decision for everyone, and suffer the criticism (or worse, terrorist attacks) if things don't work out? US can simply abstain or follow the consensus amongst UN member countries.

Because the US is the police of the world. People who do bad things hate the police. People who are innocent, use the police for their purpose.

I say it's time to leave Palestine and Israel alone and let them figure things out. If they want to kill each other in the millions, let them have the blood on their hand.

Oh I agree. its just the world will never allow it when the KD ratio is 5000:1

🙂

 

[Nebor]

Israel recoils in horror from that option, because the Palestinians with the vote plus the existing Arabs with a vote would outnumber Jews as Israel would become a secular State.

After that the Palestinian right to return would become the law in Israel.

You might want to rethink your assertion Nebor.

Not all Israeli citizens get to vote, and everyone that gets to vote doesn't have their vote counted at the same weight as everyone else, there's a variable weighting system in place. I'm surprised you didn't know this. Unlike America, the Israelis were smart enough to keep their country from being slowly conquered via immigration.

The Palestinians don't support becoming a part of the Israeli state because they know they'd just have their lands immediately annexed and they'd be disenfranchised schmucks living in state controlled ghettos, having given up any and all ability to negotiate on the international stage.

 

[SamurAchzar]

I wonder if Israel may have just cut their own throats in the security council, as Israel today announced plans to build 1100 housing units in East Jerusalem that is part of the disputed territories.

Basically proving to the quartet, that its plan to get both the Israelis and Pales to resume negotiations is not well thought out without a settlement freeze.

Obviously Nethanyau ignores your reliable and accurate predictions at his own peril.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Not all Israeli citizens get to vote, and everyone that gets to vote doesn't have their vote counted at the same weight as everyone else, there's a variable weighting system in place. I'm surprised you didn't know this. Unlike America, the Israelis were smart enough to keep their country from being slowly conquered via immigration.

Actually no, there are no such things in the Israeli voting system. If you are a citizen, regardless of ethnicity, you have full and equal voters right.

The Palestinians don't support becoming a part of the Israeli state because they know they'd just have their lands immediately annexed and they'd be disenfranchised schmucks living in state controlled ghettos, having given up any and all ability to negotiate on the international stage.

Actually they do support becoming a part of Israel, but they have to assure the right of return first in order to be a majority. There are more Palestinians in Arab states than there are in Gaza and the West Bank.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Israel recoils in horror from that option, because the Palestinians with the vote plus the existing Arabs with a vote would outnumber Jews as Israel would become a secular State.

"Secular" as in "the Islamic Republic of Israel"?

 

[randomrogue]

Lemon Law get any predictions right yet? I love the quote about Arabs turning Israel into a secular state. Real good thinking there.

 

[Lemon law]

"Secular" as in "the Islamic Republic of Israel"?

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Why not if there are more Arab compared to Jewish voters. Israel may have great appeal to the Jewish people, however, Israel is also very holy to Christians and Muslims. And for the bulk of the last two thousand years, Jews have been only small minorities in Israel while by in large Israeli control ping ponged between Arabs and Christians.

As the other question becomes, will the Land of Israel ever know any peace, before its fairly shared by instead of being pigged by only the temporarily dominant religion?

 

[OCGuy]

I'm sorry but the premise of this thread sounds like this is the OP's 3rd grade homework.

 

[Lemon law]

I'm sorry but the premise of this thread sounds like this is the OP's 3rd grade homework.

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Even if TalonStrike is the OP on this thread, he still asks a good question that is now maybe moot.

The US has not had to use its security Council veto yet for three basic reasons. (1) The Palestinian request for its own State is only today being referred to a security council committee. Where it may linger 35 days or more before anything happens. (2) The quartet plan for negotiations between the Israelis and the Pals somewhat send the whole debate into a unpredictable directions. And the Israeli plan to build 1100 housing units in East Jerusalem which is disputed territory makes it far bigger mess. (3) The Pals have not yet for sure met that other requirement for Statehood in the security council, which getting a thumbs up from at least nine nations out of 15 in the security council. The Pals may have seven for sure, but when it comes time for the actual vote, there is a good chance The Pals will have nine or more . Or they may fall short too. #8 looks like Nigeria, that Israel thought they had in their camp.

In short, anyone who thinks we will get quick and decisive answers on such subjects are almost certain to be disappointed.

 

[boochi]

The Israeli's should have put all of the Palestinians in the Sinai in 1967.

 

[Lemon law]

In breaking news today, the EU unanimously voted to endorse a Palestinian State.

http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPolitics/Article.aspx?id=239992

Even Germany long against a Palestinian state went along. But then again, Angela Merkel of Germany is losing her grip on power for other reasons, as the German people 82% support an Israel State.

Of course the EU vote makes certain security guarantees to Israel to prevent aggression by the Pals into Israel. But once the Pals get their own State, why should we assume the Pals are only motivated by only revenge when they will finally be free to build their own country and build their own economy, a right denied them for 63 years?

 

[EagleKeeper]

In breaking news today, the EU unanimously voted to endorse a Palestinian State.

http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPolitics/Article.aspx?id=239992

Even Germany long against a Palestinian state went along. But then again, Angela Merkel of Germany is losing her grip on power for other reasons, as the German people 82% support an Israel State.

Of course the EU vote makes certain security guarantees to Israel to prevent aggression by the Pals into Israel. But once the Pals get their own State, why should we assume the Pals are only motivated by only revenge when they will finally be free to build their own country and build their own economy, a right denied them for 63 years?

Because half the Palestinians are ruled by leadership that wants revenge.

And many Palestinians on the West Bank and all over the Arab states also want revenge.

Honor/Ego is a terrible handicap.

When have the Palestinians ever honored security guarantees previously - do you really think that a piece of paper will start them now.

And who does the agreement apply to? All the Palestinians or just those on the West Bank.

 

[Lemon law]

In other words, EK wants to discuss only the problems of the Palestinians, without discussing the fairness issues of the Israelis.

But EK ignores the fact that the EU, came out on the side of an Palestinian State in a change of position. In other words EK, its Israeli behavior that more disgusts the EU. As your Bozo Netanyuhu decision to announce 1100 housing units in disputed East Jerusalem may have finally alienated the EU in a big way.

Tell us again EK, why the EU unanimously voting for a Palestinian State is the fault of the Palestinians. And its an EU endorsement of Israeli government behavior.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Because half the Palestinians are ruled by leadership that wants revenge.

And many Palestinians on the West Bank anbs all over the Arab states also want revenge.

Honor/Ego is a terrible handicap.

When have the Palestinians ever honored security guarantees previously - do you really think that a piece of paper will start them now.

And who does the agreement apply to? All the Palestinians or just those on the West Bank.

It's much broader than revenge alone. What powers Hamas powers Hizballah, Iran and Al Qaeda. It's uncompromising Muslim radicalism and hatred for infidels. The Palestinians - all Arabs in fact - used to be nationalists; they used to be Arabs first, Muslims second but now it's becoming the other way around.

 

[Nebor]

Well, like President Bush said, you're either with us, or you're against us. Add the EU to the axis of evil.

 

[Lemon law]

Well, like President Bush said, you're either with us, or you're against us. Add the EU to the axis of evil.

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Brilliant simply Brilliant Nebor, but would not it be simpler to decide Israel is the only real current axis of evil in the mid-east. And as the old style Arab dictatorships move to democracy, we can have a viable Israeli and Palestinian States.

Face the facts Nebor, Israeli oppression of the Palestinians is the number one destabilizing force in the mid-east.

 

[GrGr]

It's much broader than revenge alone. What powers Hamas powers Hizballah, Iran and Al Qaeda. It's uncompromising Muslim radicalism and hatred for infidels. The Palestinians - all Arabs in fact - used to be nationalists; they used to be Arabs first, Muslims second but now it's becoming the other way around.

And what about those many dual citizens that used to be America first? Now it is all Israel first the US second. Uncompromising Jewish radicalism, also called Zionism, is personafied in Netanyahu and his government.

It is not the Palestinians that are stealing land, it is the Palestinian people that is having their land stolen and that are being crushed under the hating boot of Israel.

Arab radicalism is a reaction to Zionism not the other way round. Hizbollah was created by Israel as a direct reaction to Israel's invasion of Lebanon. Where was Hamas before Israel came along destroying Palestine? It didn't exist! Hamas was created by Israel's oppression of the Palestinian people. But ofc Zionists just love to play the victim card when history is perfectly clear that Israel is founded on Zionist terrorism and ethnic cleansing of Palestinians.

 

[StrangerGuy]

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Brilliant simply Brilliant Nebor, but would not it be simpler to decide Israel is the only real current axis of evil in the mid-east. And as the old style Arab dictatorships move to democracy, we can have a viable Israeli and Palestinian States.

Face the facts Nebor, Israeli oppression of the Palestinians is the number one destabilizing force in the mid-east.

Arabs has no industries except oil extraction to speak of, exploding population growth, huge unemployment, widespread poverty, extreme wealth inequality, no women's rights, autocratic regimes, religious intolerance the list goes on and on...

These "destabilizing" factors all caused by Israel. Amirite?

 

[Whiskey16]

Thank you, GrGr. Accurate on all accounts... :thumbsup:

...followed by the expected genralised bigotry as posted by StrangerGuy... :thumbsdown:

 

[Lemon law]

Earth to StrangerGuy, No nation on earth is without similar problems, including the USA. And if the USA quits subsidizing Israel to the tune of about $10,000 per capita, Israel will have far worse problems than they have now. With a massive population of super Orthodox Jews who do not work, a giant housing crisis, an unsustainable military budget, and huge water shortages inheritant in any semi arid desert.

The nation to watch may be Egypt, with a completed Aswan dam. Now that Egypt gave Mubarak the old heave ho after allowing Mubarak to loot the Egyptian economy for 30 years, its the Egyptian economy that is poised to bloom. As Egyptian elections are scheduled in late November of this year. Will new young Egyptian technocrats win or will old line Arab thinking dominate? Meanwhile we will have our answer soon. Looking to the North, the Turkish economy is doing quite well, as the winds of change blow all over the mid-east. Only Israel is stuck on a unsustainable past.

But Bozo Netanyuhu is right on one thing, Israel can finally have peace when all the Palestinians accept third class citizenship, starvation, and slavery. Funny thing there, its not going to ever happen nor should a just world permit it. Today's vote by the EU is just another big Israeli wake up call that the current Government of Israel can't any longer get away with their past crapola. As Israel drags the USA into total mid-east Isolation.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Earth to StrangerGuy, No nation on earth is without similar problems, including the USA. And if the USA quits subsidizing Israel to the tune of about $10,000 per capita,

Really? USA subsidizing Israel to the tune of $10,000? Like, based on the number of Israelis, about 72 billion USD a year?

Israel will have far worse problems than they have now. With a massive population of super Orthodox Jews who do not work, a giant housing crisis, an unsustainable military budget, and huge water shortages inheritant in any semi arid desert.

The "housing crisis" of Israel is that, because it was one of the few worldwide economies to prosper during the worldwide recession and attracted lots of foreign money during this time, the housing prices went up.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Arabs has no industries except oil extraction to speak of, exploding population growth, huge unemployment, widespread poverty, extreme wealth inequality, no women's rights, autocratic regimes, religious intolerance the list goes on and on...

These "destabilizing" factors all caused by Israel. Amirite?

Only an idiot would claim Israel is a destabilizing factor. For 60 years now Arab leaders needed no strong economy, no good education, and could rob their countries clean with nearly unimaginable corruption. Why? Because they could unite their citizens with their hatred of Israel. It's such a convenient neighbor that you can blame for all your troubles. Take it away from them, and people might start asking questions about what's really going on here. Arafat is a very good example - he died a billionaire (out of donor money), and never had to answer to anyone because he was a national symbol of the fight with Israel.

 

[SamurAchzar]

And what about those many dual citizens that used to be America first? Now it is all Israel first the US second. Uncompromising Jewish radicalism, also called Zionism, is personafied in Netanyahu and his government.

It is personified in any Israeli government from Israel's inception and until today. Zionism means one thing - A national homeland for the Jewish people in Israel. It is absolutely not a religious movement - the founders of Zionism were atheists - but a national one. For an Israeli politician, renouncing that is equal to an American politician renouncing the constitution. That's the basis Israel stands on.

It is not the Palestinians that are stealing land, it is the Palestinian people that is having their land stolen and that are being crushed under the hating boot of Israel.

Arab radicalism is a reaction to Zionism not the other way round. Hizbollah was created by Israel as a direct reaction to Israel's invasion of Lebanon. Where was Hamas before Israel came along destroying Palestine? It didn't exist! Hamas was created by Israel's oppression of the Palestinian people. But ofc Zionists just love to play the victim card when history is perfectly clear that Israel is founded on Zionist terrorism and ethnic cleansing of Palestinians.

You simply can not seriously blame a local territorial dispute for the radicalism all over the Arab world and the growth in worldwide Jihad. Truth is Muslims are getting more radical wherever they are, whether in Africa, Europe, Middle East or USA.

Thank you, GrGr. Accurate on all accounts...

...followed by the expected genralised bigotry as posted by StrangerGuy...

Are you glorifying Jihad again, Whiskey16?